Royal Netherlands Navy

H_K

Member
Here’s the official spec sheet, which apparently was shared by Naval Group with various defence media outlets but then pulled. So I can’t share a link as the original posts have been deleted, but it still lives in Google image search… for now.

 

Inverno

New Member
I wonder if France have learned from their Australian experience. There are probably two major reasons that Australia cancelled the Attack class. One is that they prefered nuclear but the cost blowouts and delays didn't help the French cause.
Looks like some kind of Dutch experience may be next:

"It is not possible for the Netherlands to independently investigate the quotation from the French shipyard Naval Group. This was a requirement from Defense, but according to French law no foreign audit agency is allowed to investigate French tenders. Defense adjusted the requirement during the tender, without informing the House of Representatives or the other yards. In theory, Naval Group can therefore do whatever they want with the price, without Dutch control. This is evident from research by Marineschips.nl in collaboration with de Volkskrant ." [Google translation]

Marineschepen.nl: Defense adjusted requirements to keep the French shipyard on board
 

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
Looks like some kind of Dutch experience may be next:

"It is not possible for the Netherlands to independently investigate the quotation from the French shipyard Naval Group. This was a requirement from Defense, but according to French law no foreign audit agency is allowed to investigate French tenders. Defense adjusted the requirement during the tender, without informing the House of Representatives or the other yards. In theory, Naval Group can therefore do whatever they want with the price, without Dutch control. This is evident from research by Marineschips.nl in collaboration with de Volkskrant ." [Google translation]

Marineschepen.nl: Defense adjusted requirements to keep the French shipyard on board
Thank you for sharing.
If the price of DCNS' offer was low because of subsidie from the French government, and the price stay low, then it is not really a disaster.
But if DCNS later can change/increase the price as much as they want, and the Dutch government can not control and check the reason, then we have a problem.
It is just weird that Defensie change it's own rules and procedures just to satisfy/give an advantage to one contestant, and also in a silent way. It almost smells like corruption is involved in it.
 

Redlands18

Well-Known Member
Another great video from Xavier at Naval News, with an interview with Captain Andre van der Kemp on the future of the Dutch Navy. He talks about plans to replace the entire fleet bar 1 ship over the next 15 or so years. Announcing that a project has just commenced to replace the 4 LCF (de seven Provincien class) Frigates with a new larger vessel, also talks about replacing the 2 LPDs and 4 Holland class OPVs with 6 ships of a common design.
Also talks about a new concept called MICAN based on using containerised systems on 2 commercial ships with low manning.

Talks about adding Tomahawks to the LCF, LCF replacement as well the new SSKs, with the De Ruyter to travel to San Diego late this year for first of class firing.
 

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
Some recent news.

The Oostende, the first of the series of mine hunters/mine countermeasures vessels in the Belgian-Dutch rMCM programme, intended for the Belgian Navy, began its first sea trials campaign from Concarneau on 17 July 2024. The aim is to implement and sea-test the vessel's performance before its delivery in summer 2025.

Each of the two countries is procuring six new mine countermeasure (MCM) vessels, so in total 12 of these ships will be constructed, in France.





The court in Den Haag has decided that the Netherlands government can continue with the procurement of the new submarines from DCNS.

 

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
Some good news.
1. The fire on board the Zr.Ms.Evertsen F805 wasn't that big, so luckily the damage isn't that severe.

2. The new Defensienota has showed us that much more will be spent the coming years on defence. On top the ordered two ASW-frigates, the Dutch government plan to add two more. It also plans to add 6 more NH90 NFHs.



 
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Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member

NG just release their Video on Orca class for Netherlands Navy. 4 to replace 4 of Walrus class.


It's now official, the contract has been signed.
The last time a contract was signed, was in 1978 with RDM, for the order of the four Walrusklasse submarines.
It is however the first time ever, since 120 years, that submarines for the Koninklijke Marine are not to be constructed in the Netherlands, but in a shipyard abroad.



Edit:
Here the press release in English.
 
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downunderblue

New Member
Pump jet or braded screw?

Much of the broadcasted justification why the RAN selected the Barracuda was that it was deemed 'regionally superior'. Build from the Suffren design, the pump jet was inherently quieter, especially on transit at reasonable.speed.

The thing is, there had to my knowledge never been a pump jet on a non nuclear boat, with the Russian's previously toying with it on a modified Kilo but unable to make it work.

I never got any clarify if the conventional design was 110% guaranteed to be engineered with a pump jet, or whether a bladed screw would eventually be used in compromise when they realised it was just wouldn't work?

Not to say the conventional.Baracuda wouldn't be a great boat, but that pump jet seemed to be a major reason it looked so good, and regionally superior on paper.

I looked at the above video and couldn't see any image of the stern. My curiousity again peaked and I wondered if anyone on here what NG actually offered the Netherlands?
 

swerve

Super Moderator
The lack of a clear image of the stern may be deliberate. I remember propellors being covered up for publicity photos.
 

StobieWan

Super Moderator
Staff member
I'm sure it's not accidental - most submarine unveiling ceremonies are conducted with plenty of cover for the stern - even just getting a blade count would be invaluable. I seem to recall one soviet era class had an entirely unique number of blades, such that as soon as you had a blade count, you were done, you could just classify it and get on with the rest of the job.
 

downunderblue

New Member
Deliberate or not, I would think the Dutch military would be expecting a pump jet, but the big question is if Naval group can actually pull it off.

This was discussed in AU in 2017 (per below) but I for one never discovered where the truth was, and was suspicious that Naval Group was selling the RAN a vessel they just couldn't deliver upon.


Now I hope I was wrong, but promising an unproven design introduces incredible risk into a strategically important program for the Dutch, so it should be Naval Group not the Koninklijke Marine that bears the cost on that risk (if they promised a pump jet).

PS- Mind you, in looking at the NG branded image posted above in this forum (dated 20MAR24), you will clearly note a 5 bladed screw in the drawings.
 
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