Luftwaffe/German Air Force News, Discussions & Updates

fozraro

Member
Germany approves billion-euro purchase of 38 Eurofighter jets | News

The Bundestag, the German parliament, approved the acquisition of 38 Eurofighters for the Luftwaffe — These new aircraft will be equipped with the E-Scan Radar 1 active electronically scanned array (AESA) sensor, ‘future proof’ hardware, and updated software.

Q: How does this purchase affect the discussion on the timeline for the acquisition of replacement fighters for the Luftwaffe’s Tactical Air Force Wing 33 here?

According to the above link, this 38 Tranche 4 Eurofighter contract with Airbus is part of the German Defense Ministry's long-term plan to gain at least 93 Eurofighters, along with 45 block 3, F-18E/Fs (or Growlers) from Boeing. Decisions on the purchase of the remaining jets are expected after Germany's federal election in 2021. Defence Minister Annegret Kramp-Karrenbauer also wants to replace the oldest Eurofighter jets of the German fleet with new jets.

“The order, also known by its project name Quadriga, covers the delivery of 30 single-seater and eight twin-seater Eurofighters. Three of the aircraft will be equipped with additional test installations as Instrumented Test Aircraft for the further development of the Eurofighter programme,” Airbus said.

Janes also reported that Project Quadriga will see the Luftwaffe replace 38 Tranche 1 Eurofighters, which will be sold to the international market, with newbuild Tranche 4 aircraft (previously these had been referred to as Tranche 3B or Tranche 3+).
No doubt Germany is supporting its domestic industry in light of pandemic economic woes. This is why Germany is only ordering Eurofighter. Spending money on American planes with such terrible economic condition in Germany wouldn't fly politically.
 

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
Haven’t seen any indication that Germany won’t be ordering SHs. These jets are for the nuclear strike role, a mission that Typhoons aren’t qualified for and the cost to do so would be prohibitive compared to just buying SHs. Some Growlers would also be required.
 

fozraro

Member
Haven’t seen any indication that Germany won’t be ordering SHs. These jets are for the nuclear strike role, a mission that Typhoons aren’t qualified for and the cost to do so would be prohibitive compared to just buying SHs. Some Growlers would also be required.
EF can be adapted to nuclear strike role. Not that Germany has any nuke to begin with. I doubt they'll order SH.
 

Terran

Well-Known Member
Germany has no nuke and they don't need a plane that drops nukes.
Yes and No.
Germany is partnered in the Nuclear sharing agreement for 20 US made B61 Nuclear weapons stored in Germany guarded and maintained by USAF personnel. In Their end of the agreement Germany has to have some ability to deploy these weapons. In the US end of the agreement they maintain and secure them owning them until the Break glass in case of nuclear war situation.
Tornado was nuclear qualified. Typhoon is not. Super Hornet isn’t either but Boeing is more ready willing and able to qualify Rhino than Airbus.
 

fozraro

Member
Yes and No.
Germany is partnered in the Nuclear sharing agreement for 20 US made B61 Nuclear weapons stored in Germany guarded and maintained by USAF personnel. In Their end of the agreement Germany has to have some ability to deploy these weapons. In the US end of the agreement they maintain and secure them owning them until the Break glass in case of nuclear war situation.
Tornado was nuclear qualified. Typhoon is not. Super Hornet isn’t either but Boeing is more ready willing and able to qualify Rhino than Airbus.
US is in worse shape than Germany in terms of pandemic. While SH can potentially be equipped with nuke faster than EF can before pandemic, this is not the case in light of pandemic. EF can be nuke equipped in Germany faster than US can equip SH with nuke.
 

Terran

Well-Known Member
I think you are over stating the economic effects. Also you don’t seem to understand the requirements for both qualifying to be in compliance as well.
first Drone no no under treaty. This whole deal lives in loop holes but one solid was deployment of IRBM class weapons. Drones just fit in that. Currently it’s the US who allows what host is used.
Next it not just mounting to the aircraft it’s making the systems compatible in arming. Part of that means turning over some IP to the US. Airbus doesn’t want to do that if they don’t have to. But Germany did push for it. Thing is it’s the US made weapons that are the critical here not German made fighters.
The US has to qualify the Typhoon for the bomb. Not the other way around.
 

MarcH

Member
Not sure if the Quardriga order really belongs into this thread. They are (at least as currently planned) not a Tornado replacement and thus don't compete with a possible Shornet order.
Maybe it's time for a Luftwaffe news thread ?

Haven’t seen any indication that Germany won’t be ordering SHs. These jets are for the nuclear strike role, a mission that Typhoons aren’t qualified for and the cost to do so would be prohibitive compared to just buying SHs. Some Growlers would also be required.
Wether we see German F-18's depends a lot on the outcome of the next elections. The current secretary of defence is clearly a transatlanticist. If she remains in office, chances are good for an SHorhnet + Growler order. With a leftwing government we may see the nuclear sharing arrangement dropped alltogether (and the Shornet with it).
 

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
Development of the MBDA Meteor started in the '90s. Meteor missiles entered service on Swedish Air Force JAS 39 Gripens in April 2016 and officially achieved initial operating capability (IOC) in July 2016, but only now the Meteor is declared ready for the German Eurofighters.

 

kato

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
officially achieved initial operating capability (IOC) in July 2016, but only now the Meteor is declared ready for the German Eurofighters.
The Luftwaffe only received 17 Meteor missiles in 2016 (fully in accordance with the procurement contract), which were used on German Eurofighter test aircraft IPA7 for integration the next two years. Spain performed similar tests with IPA4 in parallel. 133 further missiles were delivered until 2019, when nominal IOC was reached - i.e. deployment on limited number of aircraft possible - and a second tranche of 600 missiles were ordered at that point.

During these pre-IOC integration tests further AMRAAM - undisclosed number - were also ordered btw, so it's not like the switch was really urgent as occasionally pretended back in 2018 due to older AMRAAMs "running out".

The tests now are about transitioning from IOC to FOC by upgrading a number of Eurofighters of a regular air force wing, getting performance data on actual combat loadouts and then deploying it in full. The upgrade involves both hardware modifications to the pylons - while ensuring they can still carry AMRAAM - as well as the P2Eb software upgrade. Tranche 1 Eurofighters will not receive the upgrade.

France performed the same upgrade as Germany for Eurofighter on a Rafale F3R about 6 weeks earlier. The reason why Gripen is "ahead of the curve" with regard to integration is because MBDA outsourced the full testing regime for Meteor to Saab about 15 years ago.
 

kato

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
The planned Air Force contribution to German military Indo-Pacific engagement has been slightly upscaled.

For Exercise Pitch Black '22 in Australia the Luftwaffe is now planning to send 6 Eurofighters, 3 A400M and 3 A330 MRTT.

P.S.: The Luftwaffe is involved in the Navy's current deployment too. In Guam helicopters and some crew of frigate Bayern were exchanged. While the helicopters were shipped by a An-124 under SALIS contract, the Luftwaffe took the opportunity to use a A400M to transfer the personnel from Germany to Guam with stops in Kuala Lumpur and Doha.
 
Last edited:

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
According to this article the F-35 may be under consideration again due to the nuclear strike role because the F-18 SH isn’t certified for the B-61-12 bomb. Can’t believe the USN doesn’t have a nuclear option for the SH.
 

kato

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
According to this article the F-35 may be under consideration again due to the nuclear strike role because the F-18 SH isn’t certified for the B-61-12 bomb.
What we have:
  1. a DPA press agency article from January 8th according to which MoD Lambrecht together with Chancellor Scholz decided on a number of re-evaluations (mostly with a view towards finances), one of which is evaluating once again whether the F-35 is a "possible alternative".
  2. a government press conference on January 10th during which this came up and in which it was stated that:
    1. that the position of the MoD had not changed from the minister's Dec 19th speech (below) and further point to the coalition treaty
    2. that the position of the MoD that "the F-35 is not considered an alternative" is unchanged.
  3. the MoD speech from December 19th according to which:
    1. "I will evaluate all options."
    2. "With regard to Eurofighter we will have to clarify with the USA how long integration would take"
    3. "We will be well-advised to evaluate a European option as well consequentially".
  4. the coalition treaty from November 24th according to which a Tornado successor system shall be selected "early during the current legislature"

If the certification status of Super Hornet for B-61-12 is brought up you can safely assume that this is mere positioning by Lockheed-Martin versus Boeing placed with an author who tends to write ... shall we say, pro-F35 articles. It should be noted that the article goes quite a bit beyond verbally compared to the Reuters press release it is based upon, which is worded in a very careful way with regard to sources and their statements.
 

kato

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
The joint German-French C-130 squadron at Evreux Air Base in France was formally put into service by the German and French Ministers of Defence Lambrecht and Parly yesterday.

While in the press release they tie the date to commissioning the first German C-130J-30 of the squadron it's mostly about the buildings and infrastructure for the squadron at the air base - all new built - being finished around the end of last year. This includes a new hangar, administration building, accomodation building and enlarged taxiways and such for 120 million Euro, equally financed by Germany and France. The Luftwaffe so far had its advance party housed in an older French building at the air base.

The squadron currently has six aircraft, the remaining four are planned to be added one every six months until 2024. By that date the last new building for the squadron - a training building with a flight simulator - is also planned to be finished.

The squadron already undertook live operational missions last week - a C-130J-30 with a binational crew transported 40 French soldiers and 30 tons of ammunition to Constanta, Romania in multiple flights.

The primary purpose of the squadron is not in general transport duties, but to support special forces of both countries, including transport and air-to-air refueling of helicopters.
 
Top