Indonesian Aero News

Ananda

The Bunker Group

Put images from Keris FB that seems taking from on line presentation from MinDef on TNI procurement within this period.

I put the link on TNI-AU procurement which being devide in to three financing originations categories:
  1. Using Indonesian Currency from State budget. This indicating payment in cash.
  2. Using Foreign Institution Credit line,
  3. Using Domestic Institution Credit line.
This is already being done since Soeharto's era. In fact since Soekarno's era when his administration using USSR credit line to do huge procurement in the 60's.

I put this to shown why there's three separation on source of payment. The table can shown those consider as small items usually paid by cash from annual budget. Those big items however source mostly from local sources/producers use Domestic credit line. While those big items source overseas use Foreign credit line.

Sometimes I see local public question on defense procurement using credit line. Something that much of public did not realize this is already been done back even to Soekarno's era. Thus back in time of early Republic era.
 
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Ananda

The Bunker Group

From LM FB page on the first flight of F-16 block 70. I know I should put it on either USAF thread or at least International Fighter thread. However I put it here more on personal reasons ;).

I do have personal wish for Indonesian MinDef to 'get real' on operational budgetary sustainment. Thus abandoned F-15ID/EX effort and back to F-16 block 70. The talk of only upgrading existing C/D toward V standard not efficient enough, if they still insist on pursuing F-15ID//EX.
 

koxinga

Well-Known Member
From LM FB page on the first flight of F-16 block 70. I know I should put it on either USAF thread or at least International Fighter thread. However I put it here more on personal reasons ;).

I do have personal wish for Indonesian MinDef to 'get real' on operational budgetary sustainment. Thus abandoned F-15ID/EX effort and back to F-16 block 70. The talk of only upgrading existing C/D toward V standard not efficient enough, if they still insist on pursuing F-15ID//EX.
It depends on how soon TNI-AU needs those jets.

While there are acknowledged operational and maintenance reasons to select the BLK70, the current queue (>149?) means delivery will be post 2026, at least. More realistically, Indonesia will be looking at 2027/28 with in-service dates closer to 2030.

Bahrain (16): from 2024 link
Slovakia (14): from 2024 link
Bulgaria (8 + 8): from 2025/2026 link
Taiwan (66): from 2026 link
Unknown (24): ??
Jordan (8 + 4 + 12): ?? link

If TNI is willing to accept that sort of timeline (late 2020s) for F-16s, then the other question will be, why not other platforms? More Rafales might be faster. KF-21 would likely be in-service around that period as well.
 
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Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
I expect the production of the KF-21 will start slowly after 2026, if the development is finished that year. So there is a chance that Lockheed-Martin can deliver new F-16V Block 70s before KAI has produced all the KF-21s for South-Korea.

But yes, another option is to order more Rafales. Anyway i hope that TNI-AU can get their 23 F-16C/Ds to Block 70 standard in the future.
 

Ananda

The Bunker Group
TNI is willing to accept that sort of timeline (late 2020s) for F-16s, then the other question will be, why not other platforms? More Rafales might be faster. KF-21 would likely be in-service around that period as well
Rafale with latest export orders also has Queue on delivery. Personally I already put in this thread on preference for more Rafale, simply because they already order some batches. However it's also in Queue.

From rumours, US offer Indonesia part of their batch production of F-15EX as F-15ID. If this's true, thus F-15ID can be faster to get. However my concern more on operational sustainment budget. Just like operating Gas Turbines Frigates, question always be can TNI efficiently operating heavy fighters like F-15 on their operational budget.

There's enough leaks including some from Defense University studies shown TNI-AU have difficulty operating their current Heavy Fighters/Flankers. Will they're going to cope on operating F-15 ?

Rafale it self will be cost higher then F-16 to operate. However seems not going to costs as much as Flankers and F-15. It's questions on operational sustainment capabilities.
 

koxinga

Well-Known Member
But operational sustainment never comes as number one consideration in Indonesia defence procurement. I am curious and want your take; how much does timeline / schedule figure into the Indonesia considerations, other than budget, politics? Is TNI-AU in need for more planes or replacement? Where does it sit in the ORBAT?
 

Ananda

The Bunker Group
operational sustainment never comes as number one consideration in Indonesia defence procurement.
Yes, that's why I say in my posts, putting F-16 Blk 70 as my hope.

I am curious and want your take; how much does timeline / schedule figure into the Indonesia considerations, other than budget, politics?
My assessment 50:50. They need fasts but also there's Political play out (both local and geopolitical consideration). This is why they put "interim" fighters budget which being thought going to 12 ex Qatar Mirage 2K. Now again 'rumours' being hold by Frenchie. Seems if it is true Frenchie wants the budget being allocated perhaps toward some 2nd hand Rafale.

The budget being prepared around USD 700-800 mio. If this's enough for 6 second hand Rafale, then it is better then 12 second hand Mirage 2K (even tough ex Qatar ones being talk in very good condition and relative low flying hours for their age).

Is TNI-AU in need for more planes or replacement? Where does it sit in the ORBAT?
Current TNI-AU Fighters ORBAT is 8 sq their plan is 11 sq. From 8 sq at least 1 sq already defunct (F-5) and another 3 sq (Flankers and Hawk 200) seems need to be replaced by end of this decades (as no plan to upgrade them like the F-16). Thus they need to replace 4 sq plus add another 3.

Latest TNI-AU presentation shown future with F-15, F-16, Rafale and KF-21. As for me as by stander enthusiast, just hope they drop F-15 and focus on Rafale, F-16 and KF-21. KF-21 despite still troublesome funding on Investment (of production license facilities) and RnD dues, seems still got Political support to continue.
 
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