Welcome to DefenceTalk.com Forum!

By registering with us, you'll be able to discuss, share and private message with other members of our community.

  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

First Pictures Of New Malaysian PT-91M

Discussion in 'Photos & Videos' started by Samez, Sep 3, 2005.

Share This Page

  1. Samez

    Samez New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2005
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    Malaysia's independence day celebration.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Malaysia bought 48 new tanks in 2004; all vehicles will be delivered till end 2006. PT-91M cost ~4,5 millions $

    Main differences between the PT-91M and T-72:
    - S-1000R engine (1000hp) with Renk transmission (WZM, Poland)
    - SAVAN-15 FCS (SAGEM, France)
    - PCO's SSP-1 OBRA-3 automated laser-warning system and other optical equipment; (Poland)
    - Erawa-2 ERA (Poland)
    - Ceramic components in modified turret from PT-91A1
    - Konstrukta 2A46MS gun (Slovakia, gun used in T72M2 "Moderna")
    - New main gun stabilization
    - Thales PR4G radios
    - Thales SOTAS intercom
    - Browning M2 HMG

    all photos is from internet
     
  2. Raven_Wing278

    Raven_Wing278 New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2004
    Messages:
    70
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    i'd tell u but then i'll have 2 shoot u
    :p: nice pics..they're upgraded t-72's eh? they look 2 be in better conditions then their russian counterparts
     
  3. Samez

    Samez New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2005
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    PT-91M is Polish Tank, it is modification of PT-91A1 (wich is T-72M1 mod.), Malaysia bought 48 new PT-91M in 2004 (+option for another 48 or 64). BTW. T-90 cost ~$2 mln., PT-91 cost ~$4,5 mln.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2005
  4. ger_mark

    ger_mark New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2005
    Messages:
    25
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Germany
    they would have gone better in buying some leopard a4's
    finnlands leopards only cost about 615000 €
    even poland itself is getting used leopard a4's
    but they are adding a 120mm rheinmetall gun on their pt-91
    i guess it could be the used leopard 2a5 guns
     
  5. pingpong

    pingpong New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2005
    Messages:
    17
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Pakistan
    would you elaborate why T-90 is cheap than upgraded T-72. As far as I knew T-90 is much more advance than T-72s.

    Secondly, if this tank is to be compared with other modern tanks like leopard, leclerc, alkhalid or chinease T-98 etc, where would it stand. :rolleyes:
     
  6. Samez

    Samez New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2005
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'm from Poland. We get 128 leo2a4 for 100000 per tank, but tanks were used. Our tankers said that our Pt-91A1 have better gun stabilisation and fire system (Israeli system is use in our tanks), but armor is worst than in leo's2a4. PT-91M (malaysian) is better than PT-91A1 used in Polish Army. For example SAVAN-15 FCS used in tanks for malaysia is also used in British tank Chelenger 2.

    Malaysia bought 48 tanks for $380 milions. 380/40 = 7,91 but they bought a lot of new ammunition, and other equipment. There is option for another 48 or 64 another vechicles in this batch.

    T-90 is T-72BM modification.
    Source: http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/t-90.htm
     
  7. ger_mark

    ger_mark New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2005
    Messages:
    25
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Germany
    the fact that poland itself bought used leopard a4's from early 90's says more then a thousend words...
    this tank is just a desperate try to build up a polish tank industry
     
  8. pingpong

    pingpong New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2005
    Messages:
    17
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Pakistan
    I wonder why malaysians went for PT-91M, they could have gone for Other tanks. Pakistani Al-khalid tank is quite cheaper then its other rivals like french leclerc or leopard.

    Did Malaysians got this with ToT.:coffee
     
  9. pingpong

    pingpong New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2005
    Messages:
    17
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Pakistan
    Here are Alkhalid Specs:

    http://www.depo.org.pk/products/hit/alkhalid.htm

    GENERAL CHARACTERISTICS

    Combat Weight -------46 - 48 Ton
    Crew ------3
    Cruising Range---------400 Km
    Gross Horse Power to Combat Weight Ratio -------25 HP / Ton
    MMP-----------250 KN / m2

    POWERPACK

    Power---------- 1200 HP
    Cooling----------Water Cooled
    Fuel---------Diesel (Multiple Fuel)
    Transmission---------Fully / Semi Automatic
    Turning-------------Pivot / Skid
    Final Drive--------Planetary Type

    RUNNING GEAR

    Tracks---------------Rubber pads (replaceable)
    Suspension Type ------------Shock Absorber & Torsion bars
    Bump Stop ------------Hydraulic

    PERFORMANCE
    Max. Speed ------70 Km / hr
    Acceleration -----------0 - 32 Km / hr in 7-9 Seconds
    Trench Crossing --------2.7 m
    Obstacle Crossing ---------0.85 m
    Gradient / Side Slope ---------60 % / 40 %


    ARMAMENT

    Main Gun ----125 mm Smooth Bore, Chrome Plated, Autofrettaged
    Projectiles -------APDS - FS, HE - FS & HEAT - FS
    Ammunition Type --------Separately Loaded (split type)
    Co - axial MG ----------7.62 mm
    AA MG -------------12.7 mm, Remote Firing



    AMMUNITION

    Main Gun ----39
    AA MG --------500
    Co - axial MG -----------2000
    Grenades --------------16 (12 Smoke, 4 HE)

    AUTOLOADER

    Type -----Circular Carousel (Cassette Type)
    No. of Rounds -------------22
    Rate of Firing -------------6 - 8 Rds / min

    FCS / GCS

    Type ---------Image Stabilized (3rd generation director type stabilization), Hunter - Killer System
    Optics --------Laser Protected

    GUNNER SIGHT

    Type ----------Integrated, Bi - axis Stabilized Day / Night, Ti, LRF
    Magnification -----------Dual, 3x & 10x
    Field of View ------------200 & 60

    COMMANDER SIGHT

    Type ------Panoramic, Bi - axis Stabilized, LRF, 2nd Generation IIT
    Magnification---------------7.5x
    Field of View ---------------7.50

    LRF
    Type ----------Nd YAG
    Range -------------200 - 5000 m

    AUTO TRACKER

    Type -------------Image Processing Type
    Interfaced with ------------------Gunner Day Sight & TI

    PROTECTION

    Armour --------------Composite (Frontal Arc)

    ERA -------------Effective against kinetic and Shaped charged ammunitions.

    NBC ---------------Pressurized Cabin

    Fire Extinguishing & Explosion Suppression ------------Manual, Semi & auto.

    functions through Thermal & Optical detectors---Thermal Smoke Screen through engine exhaust
     
  10. Samez

    Samez New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2005
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    Leo2A4 were GIFTS from German government, they give us tanks, and we can withdraw some old T-72 from service. Our Leo’s are in POLISH-GERMAN battalion.

    Leo 2a4 is heavy tank, Malaysia wants medium tanks. Pakistani government not proposes selling al-kahalid for Malaysia. In Malaysia were tested: PT-91, T-90, K1A1 and T-84. As I said PT-91 were best prepared for service in Malaysia, and Malaysia chose it.

    Here is some quotes from PKISTANI DEFENCE FORUM:
    [ Admin Edit: Please do not link to outside forums, especially when it's not a credible source of defence information. Rules: http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/rules.php ]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 5, 2005
  11. ger_mark

    ger_mark New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2005
    Messages:
    25
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Germany
    does they have a website?
    i only have media on franco-german battalion

    did the poles send some leopards in iraq ?
     
  12. Samez

    Samez New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2005
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    I check it and I make some mistakes, there is no Polish - German division, but we are subordinated to VII German Tank Division. Our tanks station in Poland, but germans supply us.
     
  13. Candu Hill

    Candu Hill New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    i found out that malaysian tank doctrine is to be used hand in hand with the mech infantry. So in order to fulfill this doctrine, one of the reason is to have a tank below 50 tons because thats is the amount of weight a bridge in malaysia can withstand...
     
  14. oskarm

    oskarm New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2004
    Messages:
    65
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Poland, Gdansk
    Some technical data about PT-91 you can read here in my and Revanent posts: http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4104&page=2&pp=10



    Now back to this topic I have read lot's of un true information.



    Samez's knowledge about military seems to be quite poor if he mix battalion with brigade. So Poland didn't buy 128 Leos but got them from Germany. We paid 90 milions zł (afaik 25 mlions Euros) for bringing them to the service (they were kept in stocks by Bundeswhere). Polish Leos are in service in 10th Armored Cavalry Brigade. In a peace time the brigade is independent but in war time it is subordinated to German 7th Panzer Division. So that Brigade uses other ex-German vehicles like M113, Faun Tailers and so on. But 10th Brigade still uses some polish (like Loara) or Russian equipment (like BMP-1 or Shilka (now it's being upqrading)). The Brigade is organized in a German way so the battalionsare 58 tanks strong (other polish brigades have battalions of 40 tanks or BMP).



    Please remember that in the end of 90's Poland withrowed from service over 800 T-55 tanks. We didn't have money to buy new tanks, or even upgrade Our T-72 to PT-91 standards.



    Now some information about PT-91 and PT-91M. Most Polish are upgraded T-72s not a new tanks like PT-91M. About differences between them read in a topic linked above. In addition I can see that Malaysian PT-91M got new add-on (ceramic or steel?) armour on side hull and new ERA on front upper hull - I'll try to get some information about this. For sure information about 700mm RHA penetration of Polish ammunition is just a Dream (mayby it can penetrate 600 but not at 2km, more info in link)



    Now some informations about Polish version of PT-91 and Leo2 A4:



    Official sources (all in Polish :( ):

    Comission of National Defence: http://orka.sejm.gov.pl/Biuletyn.nsf/0/F0828A139A5F5E68C1256D6D0039A2E2?OpenDocument



    Dowódca 10 Brygady Kawalerii Pancernej gen. Bogusław Samol (i in English: Comander od 10th Armoured Cavalery Brygade:



    "40 czołgów PT 91 potrzebował na przeprowadzenie takiego samego ćwiczenia 60 ton paliwa. Przeprowadziliśmy ćwiczenie w takich samych warunkach, w których użyte zostały 53 czołgi "Leopard". Zużyły one 39,5 tony"

    "At this some kinds of exercise 40 Pt-91 used 60 tons of Diesel Fuel while 53 Loes2 A4 used only 39,5 tons."


    There're some additoinal information about exercises and accuracy but without comparison betwen two tanks.




    Raport WTO - Polish independent military magazine:

    data from tests of PT-91M with FCS SAVAN 15:

    "Prawdopodobieństwo trafienia pierwszym pociskiem

    Za pomocą celownika działonowego Using gunners sight



    - Noc, 2000 m czołg nieruchomy cel nieruchomy pocisk BM - 68% Night, 2000m Tank not moving, target not moving BM type round.



    - dzień,2000 m czołg nieruchomy, cel nieruchomy, BK 87%
    day, tank no moving, target not moving


    - noc 1600 m czołg nieruchomy czołg przechylony o 10 stopni w prawo cel nieruchomy BK 86%, night, tank not moving, standing on 10 deg side slope, target not moving



    - noc 1600 m czołg nieruchomy strzela dowódca przy pomocy podglądu cel w nieskordynowanym ruchu poprzecznym pocisk BM - 91%,
    night, tank not moving, commander firing, target moving in scattered way


    - dzień 2000 m czołg w kierunku celu 20km/h, cel nieruchomy OF -81%
    day, tank is moving with speed of 20km/h towards target, target not moving


    - dzień 2000 m czołg nieruchomy, ruch celu w prawo BM 74%
    day, tank not moving, target is moving from left to right


    - dzień 3800 m czołg nieruchomy wyjątkowo BM 25%
    tank not moving


    za pomocą celownika dowódcy,
    Using commander sight
    - dzień 1600 m czołg nierychomy cel nieruchomy BM 77%
    day, tank no moving, target not moving
    - dzień 1000 m ruch czołgu w kierunku nieruchomego celu OF 98%, day Tank is moving towards its target






    Now some info from my personal talks with soldiers who used both polish PT-91s and Leos (10th Brigade has used PT-91 before).


    Advantages of PT-91 over Leos: Better thermal camera (higher resolution, Malaysian should be even better).


    Advantages of Leos over PT-91: Faster and better moving, better ergonomic, faster changing of powerpack (polish PT-91 still has its old engines), much smaller Gun’s dispersion area, faster target aiming, commander’s independent thermal sight. Rest of Leos Advantages better gun with better penetration and better armour.





    In the price of contract was included:

    - 48 PT-91M Tanks
    - 6 WZT-4
    Recovery Tanks
    - 3 PMC-90 Bridge Layers
    -
    Trucks (Cistern and Tank Trailers)
    -
    Training devices
    - Ammunition
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2005
  15. oskarm

    oskarm New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2004
    Messages:
    65
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Poland, Gdansk
    Ex-German equipment in service in 10. Panzer Cavalery Brigade:

    6 M577, 13 M113 Armoured Command Vehicles, 16 M113 Ambulance, 116 Leopard 2A4, 10 Bergepanzer 2A2, 4 Bruekenlegenpanzer 1 Biber, 6 SLT.50-2 Faun Elephant, 91 Mercedes 1017 5-t trucks, 29 Unimog 435 2-t trucks, 25 Mercedes MB 290GD jeeps).
    This Polish brogade is a part of German Division (7th Panzer Div from Duesseldorf) which is multinational part of Rapid Development NATO Force. So, when the division would operate abroad the whole logistic servis is German, thats why the equipment is German too.