Engagement or Isolation??

[powerfulguy]

The United States will Thursday offer Iran and North Korea a "clear choice" in its new national security strategy, accept U.S. offers of engagement, or face deep isolation over their nuclear programs.

"Both nations face a clear choice," the document says, calling on North Korea to eliminate its nuclear weapons and for Tehran to meet its international obligations on its atomic program.

"If they ignore their international obligations, we will pursue multiple means to increase their isolation and bring them into compliance with international nonproliferation norms."
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Engagement or Isolation...
Which one do they choice??

 

[justone]

Isolation

Both countries seem like they dont want to be bully around. Iran is determined to be nuclear state but are they willing to face the react of the international community? Iran has to much pride not back down from there goal of being a nuclear state. N Korean on the other hand wants a non aggression pact with the U.S. Both countries will continue there action until they get what they want .Iran seems more able to ride out the sanction. N. Korean on the other hand is not so able ride out any sanction. I must said this Iran has alot of heart to stand up to U.S. If you look at history they were once a mighty empire but that dont have anything to do with who is the top dog today. Iran wants to be that mighty empire again.

 

[eckherl]

The United States will Thursday offer Iran and North Korea a "clear choice" in its new national security strategy, accept U.S. offers of engagement, or face deep isolation over their nuclear programs.

"Both nations face a clear choice," the document says, calling on North Korea to eliminate its nuclear weapons and for Tehran to meet its international obligations on its atomic program.

"If they ignore their international obligations, we will pursue multiple means to increase their isolation and bring them into compliance with international nonproliferation norms."
====================================

Engagement or Isolation...
Which one do they choice??

Don't expect either country to listen to Washington, also the sinking of the ROK ship has turned into a game changer in regards to ROKs attitude towards the North, even the U.S will be unable to get the ROK to cooperate inregards to a peace treaty until they have solid concrete proof that this will turn in to a positive position for them. I am afraid that the North has gone to far this time and both China and the U.S really do not know how to handle this current situation, its a catch 22 for both countries.

 

[Bergerpollm]

I wouldn't engage them, ever. Iran and North Korea are both complete lunatics. The only way to deal with North Korea is for Obama to go to Seoul and say "Mr. Il, tear down this wall" and as for Iran, I'd go with John McCain. Bomb, Bomb, Bomb, Bomb, Bomb, Iran!

 

[GermanHerman]

I wouldn't engage them, ever. Iran and North Korea are both complete lunatics. The only way to deal with North Korea is for Obama to go to Seoul and say "Mr. Il, tear down this wall" and as for Iran, I'd go with John McCain. Bomb, Bomb, Bomb, Bomb, Bomb, Iran!

Well that was quite some disrespectfull post, eh?

But anyway, Iran isn't as isolated as the US always pretend, they have more or less good relations with russia aswell as with china and benefits from trade with their formar GUS neighbors.
Actualy Iran even buys modern weapon systems from russia like the not-yet-delivered s-400 (anyone with infos about this deal? It would change the scenario a little bit afaik the s-400 is a potential pain in the ass for any western airplane).

I would even go so far that China (which needs quite a little bit of oil as it's economy is growing) as well as russia (which doesn't want any further expansion of US Influence and still is pissed about the way US / NATO treated them under G.W.Bush) won't make it easy for US to take influence on Iran so "isolation" (sanctions) is not a real option to put pressure on Iran.

Beside, their nuclear program can only be delayed but not destroyd by air strikes alone (because of the nuclear know-how iran already gained), so the only real military option would be an invasion of iran.

I think everyone will agree if I say that this is not an option for the US right now.



But I'm not an expert, some of my information might be out-dated or even totaly wrong, please correct me if so and excuse my bad english. Thanks

 

[Twickiwi]

Well that was quite some disrespectfull post, eh?

But anyway, Iran isn't as isolated as the US always pretend, they have more or less good relations with russia aswell as with china and benefits from trade with their formar GUS neighbors.
...
Beside, their nuclear program can only be delayed but not destroyd by air strikes alone (because of the nuclear know-how iran already gained), so the only real military option would be an invasion of iran.

I think everyone will agree if I say that this is not an option for the US right now.

But I'm not an expert, some of my information might be out-dated or even totaly wrong, please correct me if so and excuse my bad english. Thanks

Iran and NOK are a bit of a problem of diagnosis: crazy like a fox or genuinely psychotic? I think it's anyone's guess, but if I had to I would say there is a distinction between North Korea (psychotic) and Iran (neurotic but strategic).

If you want evidence look at the news today:
BBC News - North Korean border guard 'shoots three Chinese dead'
If you start shooting the citizens of you only real ally in the world (and it's difficult to believe the soldier wasn't acting under orders) you've got serious problems. There appears to be an overwhelming and increasingly complete disconnect between the domestic priorities of the ruling elite and the necessary behaviours of a viable state. There is no bankrupcy procedure or more pertinent method of committing a nation into psychiatric care, otherwise this skinny smelly dangerous paranoid would have been "sectioned" long ago. Those with serious personality disorders are notoriously manipulative and prone to self harm as a way of resisiting treatment. Engagement is just as likely to get you stabbed or stolen from.

Meanwhile back at the UN:
BBC News - Ahmadinejad defiant ahead of UN nuclear sanctions vote
Iran does a magnificent job of outmanoeuvring both their allies and their enemies. Ultimately their program is self destructive, but they appear to care about the outside world (or at least understand the difference between reality and hallucination).

Oh and Hermann? You have nothing to apologise for. If only many native speakers of English had your grasp the language.

 

[GermanHerman]

I totaly agree on the N-Korean part, I just got a little bit more cautious about Iran after german press had correct itself about some of the more crazy Ahmadinedschad quotes.

For example:

1st version:
"Israel must be wiped off the map."

correct translation:
"This regime [ ! israels goverment NOT israel itself ! ] that is occupying Qods [Jerusalem] must disappear from the pages of history."


Well, while first statement is obviously extreme, the true quote is more or less acceptable.
Of cause that makes Ahmadinedschad not a bit nicer as a person, but it shows that we can't rely on our western press when it comes to "hostile" goverments / states.
Beside it is not so crazy to make anti-semitic statements and be all anti-israel if you want to be a popular politician in the part of the islamic world that has no interest in U.S. bases or culture and feels betrayed (and realy was betrayed) by the west for more or less 50 years.
Also Iran wants to be a regional power and this kinda talk helps to increase the influence on the islamic world.

You always have to put this crazy talk into context and at least it was enough for A. to be elected in the first place, right?

PS: Thanks ;D I just feel a little bit insecure about my english from time to time cause I'm dyslexic (that word sounds so wired) and have some problems with grammar and spelling.