Conscription in a Modern Military

T34TANK1

New Member
Is having a Military (most probably Army) manned by Conscripts who are serving a duration of time mandatorily good for a modern Military like those of the US, Canada and The UK or are Volunteer Militaries better?

Or does it depend on the Nation and their defence needs, for instance Israel, South Korea and Greece?.

Will Russia continue Conscription forever?.
 
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Todjaeger

Potstirrer
Is having a Military (most probably Army) manned by Conscripts who are serving a duration of time mandatorily good for a modern Military like those of the US, Canada and The UK or are Volunteer Militaries better?

Or does it depend on the Nation and their defence needs, for instance Israel, South Korea and Greece?.

Will Russia continue Conscription forever?.
Realistically, the answer to the conscription/volunteer armed forces is that it depends on the nation. There are pros and cons to both types of armed forces, and it depends on which advantages and disadvantages are of greatest concern to a given nation.
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Is having a Military (most probably Army) manned by Conscripts who are serving a duration of time mandatorily good for a modern Military like those of the US, Canada and The UK or are Volunteer Militaries better?

Or does it depend on the Nation and their defence needs, for instance Israel, South Korea and Greece?.

Will Russia continue Conscription forever?.
Please don't BOLD all of a post. Bold can be used to emphasis a point, but not a whole post. Also bold is used by the Moderators. I have edited your post to remove the bold type.
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Realistically, the answer to the conscription/volunteer armed forces is that it depends on the nation. There are pros and cons to both types of armed forces, and it depends on which advantages and disadvantages are of greatest concern to a given nation.
I mean even Russia is steadily moving away from conscription. They're only using contract soldiers on deployments, and are steadily increasing the proportion of contract soldiers to conscripts. If things keep going the way they have been, it's only a matter of time before they decide that conscripts aren't worth the hassle. They currently have two motor-rifle brigades of contract reservists. Currently their main argument in favor of keeping conscription is that they need reservists to mobilize for a large war. But if they have a positive experience with these contract reservists, they may move to a US-style reserve system, making conscripts little more then a crutch to fill out the numbers.
 

Ananda

The Bunker Group
Conscripts system actually is more expensive to run, then profesional system. There's some arguments in Indonesia on activating Conscript system, being initiated by current ministry of defense. However so far being tone down, since many opposition on the idea, more so on the economic cost conscription will create in the fourth most populous nation in the world.

I do believe for smaller population nation like Singapore, Sweden or Israel, conscription still work some what. However from what I hear, even Singapore is increasing the portion of Professional in their Armed Forces.

For nation with larger population base..it's simply costing too much.
 

KiwiRob

Well-Known Member
Norway, Denmark, Finland and Sweden (started conscripting again in 2017) still have conscription, in Norway if you don't want to go you don't have to. That said a lot of Norwegians want to do it, it's like a right of passage, about 10,000 people every year are conscripted, in 2013 the govt extended conscription to women, a lot have joined up. At certain times every year Gardermoen will be filled up with young people in uniform heading to various bases around Norway.
 

Ananda

The Bunker Group
Yep..those nation are in smaller population bracket..and also facing potential increasing external threat. Conscription will create man power bases that needed.
 

alexsanjaya

New Member
There's some arguments in Indonesia on activating Conscript system, being initiated by current ministry of defense. However so far being tone down, since many opposition on the idea, more so on the economic cost conscription will create in the fourth most populous nation in the world.
Since when does there is any conscription / draft in Indonesia?! Furthermore there is NO SUCH THING being talked in any level of Indonesia government.
 

Ananda

The Bunker Group
Since when does there is any conscription / draft in Indonesia?! Furthermore there is NO SUCH THING being talked in any level of Indonesia government.
What do you mean no such thing..that stupid 'bela negara' that current minister of defence talk..is basically conscription. When you talk on building 'reserve ellements' from civilian population, it's part of conscription.

This current administration has some foolish ministers that talked without thinking the consequences on the action. Luckily level headed thinking still work in some part of administration.

He's still trying to sell this idea, now still a concept that being socialised..but if this get full go ahead..then it's basically creating reserve units being trained as part military conscript. He's not calling it conscription..but it's fall into conscription catagory.

It's expensive, and wasting defense budget that can be used to improve living standard of profesional soldiers instead. And there's no need for this kind of program, on large population based nation.

Perhaps you are confusing conscription as mandatory ones just like in Singapore. However conscription has many form based on each country need. Above KiwiRob already give example in Norway, where conscription there can be voluntary. The minister of defense can say anything on his 'bela negara' concept, but it's nonetheless fall into voluntary conscription.
 
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alexsanjaya

New Member
What do you mean no such thing..that stupid 'bela negara' that current minister of defence talk..is basically conscription. When you talk on building 'reserve ellements' from civilian population, it's part of conscription.
"Bela Negara" for all purpose and intent is more about "citizenship course" and has nothing to do (unrelated) with any kind of conscription (drafting). In fact back when I was still in high school (public school) I receive a lot more intensive course which include survival training, logistic management, and field operation, etc and yet it's not conscription it's just part of the curriculum.

@Ananda, I'm not sure whether your old enough to remember (or pretend not remember) but those of us native Indonesia who were part of Baby Boomer & Gen-X demographic do receive similar citizenship coarse from grad school all the way to tertiary education level (I wasn't referring to the good old "Penataran P4" here). Furthermore have you forgotten the "Wawasan Nusantara" doctrine along with "Pertahanan Rakyat Semesta" doctrine?! If you are part of the Millennial demographic then I understand if you can't comprehend those 2 doctrines, however if you were part of the Baby Boomer or Gen-X demographic those doctrines are always part of the strategic thinking.


This current administration has some foolish ministers that talked without thinking the consequences on the action. Luckily level headed thinking still work in some part of administration.
By level headed I assume you're referring to anyone who happen to share the same view as your political patron regardless no matter how ridiculous the idea was?

He's still trying to sell this idea, now still a concept that being socialised..but if this get full go ahead..then it's basically creating reserve units being trained as part military conscript. He's not calling it conscription..but it's fall into conscription catagory.
All I see is certain internet forum poster who were creating narrative out of something that doesn't exist simply because the company his working for doesn't receive significant defence contract from the current administration.
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
"
By level headed I assume you're referring to anyone who happen to share the same view as your political patron regardless no matter how ridiculous the idea was?

All I see is certain internet forum poster who were creating narrative out of something that doesn't exist simply because the company his working for doesn't receive significant defence contract from the current administration.
There is no need to get personal, and attack other posters. Such behaviour is not tolerated here.
 

StobieWan

Super Moderator
Staff member
Is having a Military (most probably Army) manned by Conscripts who are serving a duration of time mandatorily good for a modern Military like those of the US, Canada and The UK or are Volunteer Militaries better?

Or does it depend on the Nation and their defence needs, for instance Israel, South Korea and Greece?.

Will Russia continue Conscription forever?.

Not sure if I'm reading that right but it looks like you're suggesting the US, Canada and the UK are conscript forces? They're not -and all have in the past used conscription in times of war etc but generally in a technically complex branch, conscription is more of an overhead for the military than anything else. Certainly the RN fought every year to not have to take conscripts into their service for instance, as the out puts were in no way worth the inputs.

Generally speaking, a professional volunteer force with long serving members, a strong NCO system and a career path will tend to produce better results than a force which has a high turn over in numbers.
 

Ananda

The Bunker Group
@alex..you are clearly supporter of present Indonesian Admin..thus taking all their explenation on 'Bela Negara'. This is not the forum to debate Indonesian Political situation thus I will not going there. There's no denial that I'm not supporter for current admin, however i'm still try to debates on the essense of their policy.

You are not reading Bela Negara correctly. It's not simply a 'course' just like P4 in Soeharto era (yes I remember P4 and all courses you are talking since I took it. You took it in High School, I took them until my University, so most likely I'm older then you ).
So don't try to tell me I'm miss leading anything. This thread is talking on conscription. When I told in this thread, that Bela Negara is part of conscription, since the end game of this project is to create 'trained voluenters' (that already indoctrinated first in Bela Negara concept). The courses you are talking is only part of wholle projects. You talked as if bela negara only courses..but you are avoiding the Military Training parts.

Again watch the end game this project aimed. The minister publicly stated he wants the civilian that enter the projects, to be trained militarily as part of trained reservist. That's Conscription catagory, no matter how the administration tweeked it. And you attack me not on the issue but telling me caused I don't get project..you don't know me..and clearly you are getting personal.

You clearly attacking people who did not agree with your beloved adminstration, no matter how silly their project like Bela Negara is.

You want to debate more on Indonesian Politics..then debate more on Indonesian Thread or make seperate thread on that. However don't sugar coating bela negara is not part of conscription, caused the end game is creating reservist, which is part of conscription catagory.

@ngati and admin team, sorry if bit derailled this thread. However I've to answered Alex post. Already told him, if he wants to debate more on Bela Negara..he can debate it on Indonesian Thread or he can create his own thread on the matter.
I put Bela Negara as part of example of conscription, since any project that end game creating Military Trained Reservist is part of Conscription, no matter how their sugar coating it.
 
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