Victorian researchers work with US Air Force to bend light for camouflage in war zone

[gf0012-aust]

Victorian researchers work with US Air Force to bend light for camouflage in war zones - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

this has been around for a while (about 2 years ago when I first heard of it) but apparently is now news for the broader media...

 

[jack412]

I saw that this morning and thought, we must be doing something good for the yanks to want in. Our tech, their money and go half's?

 

[gf0012-aust]

I saw that this morning and thought, we must be doing something good for the yanks to want in. Our tech, their money and go half's?

Nope, doesn't always work that way.

The americans maintain interest and invest when they can, but we invariably maintain control of the tech

they prefer not to be seen as taking over but do want to maintain involvement.

Damn shame as DARPAs budget makes DSTO's look distressingly underfunded even on ratio....

I worked on one US project where the annual budget for just that one project exceeded DSTO's combined project budget - let alone a University funded exercise.

They come out every year for the annual DSTO show and tell, and are always going back home with something new in their "wish list"

 

[My2Cents]

All they have so far are computer models that it is possible in theory, for a limited bandwidth.

Now, assuming they lick the bandwidth problem, all they have to do is figure out how to make the molecules they need and arrange them in the configuration required.

And how to mass produce the material large enough (acre size) lots.

 

[RobWilliams]

I was hugely confused when I first read this, the first things that pop into my head when i read 'Victorian' are steam engines & Isambard Kingdom Brunel.

 

[gf0012-aust]

All they have so far are computer models that it is possible in theory, for a limited bandwidth.

Now, assuming they lick the bandwidth problem, all they have to do is figure out how to make the molecules they need and arrange them in the configuration required.

And how to mass produce the material large enough (acre size) lots.

I'm not sure you understand the CTD programs

The USG incl DARPA, Commerce, State and all Services (USAF, USN, Army, USMC and sometimes USCG) come out once per year to review a shortlist of techs that are already selected out of an initial group of say 50 possibles. Its cut down to 20 or so so as to be easily digested in the month that they are in attendance. ONR undertake similar tasks in Europe. eg I used to see the London based ONR Officer regularly attend euro shows such as the Hanover Messe Energy generation and management events. He was a busy lad - and he was only interested in CTD's as all the allies were in regular contact with each other sharing academic papers and proposals. The visits therefore are meant to be about witnessing product - ie beyond theory

What they see are CTD's - they're not academic dissertations as we already have processes in place to deal with academic ideas or as often euphemistically referred to as "good idea fairy proposals"

So they come out and witness these techs in operation. The japanese used a different technique to achieve a similar req a few years back but it was energy intensive.

A good example of general media getting things wrong is in the article posted by richardparker07 in one of the USN threads. The article mentions US capability being triggered in 2009 - when in actual fact it was much earlier. The techs discussed in that article were shown to the USN in 2003 and they got involved in 2004. I worked on similar iterations in Hawai'i in 2006-7.

In this case the CTD has been established on a static ground model a couple of years ago - the USAF interest for their own purposes is more than achievable as CTD has been established. POC for their platform is the next stage and nobody considers it beyond achievability considering how far its come in 2 years

bear in mind that there are existing aircraft which already have wavelength management already in place but its effectiveness is at specific altitudes

they're not having to reinvent the wheel here as core capabilities are already in service

its an energy management issue

 

[gf0012-aust]

I was hugely confused when I first read this, the first things that pop into my head when i read 'Victorian' are steam engines & Isambard Kingdom Brunel.

ah.... visions of huge anchor links on the Great Eastern spring to mind

 

[ngatimozart]

Quite interesting and intriguing. Once they manage to get visible light techniques sorted then they may be able to extend it into the infra red and other wavelengths including the wavelengths that radars currently operate on. This has many possibilities.

 

[gf0012-aust]

Quite interesting and intriguing. Once they manage to get visible light techniques sorted then they may be able to extend it into the infra red and other wavelengths including the wavelengths that radars currently operate on. This has many possibilities.

I worked on a similar eng project re managing wavelengths and photo reactive tech a few years back - as you say, these kinds of tech have far reaching impact across a number of areas.

I'd love to be involved with this and what the japanese were pulling off. other application benefits are enormous....- and once they can move beyond static mules etc.....

 

[cdxbow]

Nice to see the home state scoring some goals. Who needs a science minister. Sounds like this is only still super computing modeling at this stage. If a working nanomaterial is developed from this work, won't it disappear and go black? She sort of says that in the interview, "the air force will come along...." Sadly the USAF rather than the RAAF.

To implement a Sci-Fi style cloak, you would need an incredible amount of real time computation, especially for dynamic use. You might need to build a sort of inverted game engine, to render your world on your nanosurface. Handling a full spectrum of light frequencies might be hard. Bet the first ones are monochrome, like B&W tellies.

 

[gf0012-aust]

Nice to see the home state scoring some goals. Who needs a science minister. Sounds like this is only still super computing modeling at this stage. If a working nanomaterial is developed from this work, won't it disappear and go black? She sort of says that in the interview, "the air force will come along...." Sadly the USAF rather than the RAAF.

To implement a Sci-Fi style cloak, you would need an incredible amount of real time computation, especially for dynamic use. You might need to build a sort of inverted game engine, to render your world on your nanosurface. Handling a full spectrum of light frequencies might be hard. Bet the first ones are monochrome, like B&W tellies.

the tech that the japanese developed was in full spectrum colour

 

[My2Cents]

Nice to see the home state scoring some goals. Who needs a science minister. Sounds like this is only still super computing modeling at this stage. If a working nanomaterial is developed from this work, won't it disappear and go black? She sort of says that in the interview, "the air force will come along...." Sadly the USAF rather than the RAAF.

To implement a Sci-Fi style cloak, you would need an incredible amount of real time computation, especially for dynamic use. You might need to build a sort of inverted game engine, to render your world on your nanosurface. Handling a full spectrum of light frequencies might be hard. Bet the first ones are monochrome, like B&W tellies.

It seems likely that what they are referring to is a passive metamaterial based cloaking system, not an active cloaking system. They already have designs that can work at microwave and infrared frequencies, though not for complex shapes. The problem is creating molecules of the correct size shape and arrangement to work in the visible range.

 

[gf0012-aust]

it gets down to what part of the evolutionary development we are talking about

small static "cloaking" for specific wavelengths has been achieved now
larger complex static "cloaking" for specific wavelengths is more difficult and the energy demands are enormous
wavelength management for a specific wavelength already exists and various airforces use a variation of it already - but its a very prescriptive scenario of usage

the USAF interest is about mobile localised wavelength management on high speed platforms - thats a quantum leap ahead of whats been achieved but its what everyone is aiming at.

the static achievements are also scenario specific, ie complexity of background is minimal and static etc...

 

[Dadsky]

Okay so... What we're aiming for here is essentially what was seen in the game Ghost Recon: Future Soldier, where a moving object can be camouflaged from the naked eye by managing the light wavelengths around it/projecting an image of the environment? Or have I fluffed that completely?