Technology-Reliant U.S. Warns of Threats to Satellites

watchman

New Member
Technology-Reliant U.S. Warns of Threats to Satellites

http://thetrumpet.com/index.php?page=article&id=2825

U.S. commercial and military satellites are under threat, Undersecretary of State Robert G. Joseph stated.

Speaking to the George C. Marshall Institute, Joseph warned that a number of countries are “acquiring capabilities to counter, attack and defeat U.S. space systems.” For the technology-reliant United States, this is bad news.

The 9/11 attacks on the World Trade Center and the short-term ripple effects they had on the U.S. economy demonstrate that America’s enemies are adept at diagnosing and exploiting American weaknesses. As such, Joseph feels that the U.S. space system also stands as “a highly lucrative target” for terrorists or enemy nations, like Iran and North Korea. USA Today reported:

“For our part, we must take all of these threats seriously because space capabilities are essential” to the U.S. economy and government, Joseph said. …

Joseph listed telecommunications, transportation, electrical power, water supply, gas and oil storage, transportation systems, emergency services, banking and finance, and government services as relying heavily on data transmitted by satellites.

Technology is among America’s strongest assets. It helps underpin an above-average standard of living for American citizens, while also giving America a strong military edge over its enemies abroad. But technology is also one of America’s weak points: The orderly functioning of America’s infrastructure and the superiority of American military forces heavily depend on it. Disabling proper functioning of America’s technological infrastructure could leave the country vulnerable to attack and foster a climate of civil disorder.

Speaking before the Senate Judiciary Subcommittee on Technology and Terrorism in Washington, D.C., on Oct. 6, 1999, Michael A. Vatis of the National Infrastructure Protection Center stated, “Foreign nations are developing information warfare programs because they see that they cannot defeat the United States in a head-to-head military encounter and they believe that information operations are a way to strike at what they perceive as America’s Achilles heel—our reliance on information technology to control critical government and private sector systems.”

As Vatis suggested, an enemy confronting the United States in a head-on military clash is a highly unlikely scenario. However, the prospect of an invasion becomes more likely under the theory that once America’s technological infrastructure is disabled or severely compromised, the U.S. would likely lack the ability to either muster a call to war or to coordinate its military assets to face an incoming invader. If such a scenario were to occur, attacking American space satellites, which control large swaths of American civil and military infrastructure, could be a precursor to a more direct invasion.

As an example of how America is a target of technology warfare, a 2005 report prepared by the United States Congressional Research Service titled “China Naval Modernization: Implications for U.S. Navy Capabilities—Background and Issues for Congress” described how “China opensource writings demonstrate an interest in information warfare … as an increasingly important element of warfare, particularly against a sophisticated opposing force such as the U.S. military. Concern about potential pla iw/io capabilities has been heightened by recent press reports about attacks on U.S. computer systems that in some cases appear to have originated in China. One observer has stated that ‘China even now is planting viruses in U.S. computer systems that they will activate’ in the event of a military conflict with the United States” (Defense Today, Aug. 2, 2005).

The door is clearly open for foreign nations to exploit American technology weaknesses. As foreign nations close the technology gap between themselves and America, the U.S. can expect to have this weakness tested. And to nations that are already technologically more on a par with the United States, like Europe, America should pay particular attention, because they have the technological wherewithal to bring America to its knees.
 

windscorpion

New Member
I was reading a book on Space Warfare over the holidays, it suggested a scenario where a state like North Korea could gain a real short term advantage by detonating a nuke in LEO to render the US' satellites in the area out of action (and anything else up there).
 

Tasman

Ship Watcher
Verified Defense Pro
How difficult would it be to take out a satellite?

Which nations (or organisations) have the capacity to do so?
 

PETER671BT

New Member
How difficult would it be to take out a satellite?

Which nations (or organisations) have the capacity to do so?
Actually to take out a saterlite for the usa is not hard,they've already achieved this about seven times over three decades with obserlete saterlites.
They can shoot missile out of South australia,which aren't even nuclear.It has been seen half dozen times from the old russian space station,new international space station.The only thing that remains a mystery is what type of missle.some say a new improve tomahawk.
 

turin

New Member
Why wow? Its not exactly like laser-based satellite countermeasures are something new... Its just that the Chinese are starting to play with the big boys now.
;)
 

Tasman

Ship Watcher
Verified Defense Pro
China seems to have already mastered the technology to render satellites useless. Read this article:
http://www.janes.com/aerospace/military/news/jdw/jdw061016_1_n.shtml

WOW!!
Thanks for that. This makes the current reliance on satellites a bit of a worry.

I guess the next step will be to develop defensive systems of some sort for the satellites. Is it possible to use decoys for example? Also, is there some way a laser can be deflected? This question probably demonstrates my ignorance re laser technology!

Cheers
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Why wow? Its not exactly like laser-based satellite countermeasures are something new... Its just that the Chinese are starting to play with the big boys now.
;)
The US was firing laser bursts to a transponder on the moon in 1969. ;)

Its a big deal for china - but the first demonstration of long distance targeting via laser happened 38 years ago. Methinks there is a bit of a way to go for them yet.
 

powerslavenegi

New Member
The US was firing laser bursts to a transponder on the moon in 1969. ;)
Yes.I guess that was for primarily for range finding.Lasing a LEO so that its sensors be blinded or completly rendered ineffective requires much more powerful lasers (Soviets threatened to use the same against the Americans over latters possible military use of shuttles).

Its a big deal for china - but the first demonstration of long distance targeting via laser happened 38 years ago. Methinks there is a bit of a way to go for them yet.
Nope infact China was in news recently for blinding US satellites by means of some lasers,having said that yes the rest have a lot of catching up to do when it comes to laser/microwave based interception of BM's which US is pursuing.
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Yes.I guess that was for primarily for range finding.Lasing a LEO so that its sensors be blinded or completly rendered ineffective requires much more powerful lasers (Soviets threatened to use the same against the Americans over latters possible military use of shuttles).
no, the significant issue is the evidence of targetting capability. From that point on the second stage is an issue of target destruction - by any means available. Current laser technology multiplies the emphasis on ability. For all of the stated russian achievements, they have not demonstrated long distance (space related) targetting - and certainly not 38 years worth.

the US has thus been able to demonstrate space targetting with complete accuracy since 1969.
 

tphuang

Super Moderator
no, the significant issue is the evidence of targetting capability. From that point on the second stage is an issue of target destruction - by any means available. Current laser technology multiplies the emphasis on ability. For all of the stated russian achievements, they have not demonstrated long distance (space related) targetting - and certainly not 38 years worth.

the US has thus been able to demonstrate space targetting with complete accuracy since 1969.
hey Gary, I'm just wondering. If China was to attempt to "blind" satellites over its territory during a conflict, what kind of counter measures would be available for Americans at that point?
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
hey Gary, I'm just wondering. If China was to attempt to "blind" satellites over its territory during a conflict, what kind of counter measures would be available for Americans at that point?
How longs a piece of string? :rolleyes: I guess its subject to too many variables:

eg:

  • who's in power (republicans/dems)
  • if it was a singularity attack and thus able to be diplomatically talked away
  • if it was seen as a declaration of war
  • whether the international community would accept that a natrions borders extends into space as a column. (IIRC, INt'l law does not accept column space in outer space as territorial)
etc etc.....

I certainly believe that the US has the capacity to respond and rapidly degrade chinese capability in retribution, the danger being that it could escalate from reciprocity to a full declaration of war.
 

PETER671BT

New Member
The Us is just starting to build laser weapons,in 747 and it takes a lot of room
up.I wonder if it could be more like a satellite doing some like high energy jamming system.I suppose by now the chinese might of work how lighten and smallen the laser technology.
 

tphuang

Super Moderator
How longs a piece of string? :rolleyes: I guess its subject to too many variables:

eg:

  • who's in power (republicans/dems)
  • if it was a singularity attack and thus able to be diplomatically talked away
  • if it was seen as a declaration of war
  • whether the international community would accept that a natrions borders extends into space as a column. (IIRC, INt'l law does not accept column space in outer space as territorial)
etc etc.....

I certainly believe that the US has the capacity to respond and rapidly degrade chinese capability in retribution, the danger being that it could escalate from reciprocity to a full declaration of war.
sorry, I should've stated it more clearly. Suppose this happened in the event of a war and China was trying to blind US satellite. And these laser countermeasures are located deep in land, let's say Xinjiang.
 

rjmaz1

New Member
sorry, I should've stated it more clearly. Suppose this happened in the event of a war and China was trying to blind US satellite. And these laser countermeasures are located deep in land, let's say Xinjiang.
I think someones forgetting that Afghanistan shares a border with China and it happens to be Xinjiang Province :eek:nfloorl:

The US with its current military advantage wouldn't have any trouble at all.
 

tphuang

Super Moderator
I think someones forgetting that Afghanistan shares a border with China and it happens to be Xinjiang Province :eek:nfloorl:

The US with its current military advantage wouldn't have any trouble at all.
I don't think you realize how big xinjiang province is. But if you really want to go there, how about somewhere more central then, but still far enough from the south and east coast.
 

rjmaz1

New Member
I don't think you realize how big xinjiang province is. But if you really want to go there, how about somewhere more central then, but still far enough from the south and east coast.
Based on a 1000 mile combat radius of F-15E's flying out of afghanistan they would be able to strike any target in the xinjiang province.

The USAF wouldn't risk bombers entering china without escorts so somewhere in central china would be a good place to hide.

The F-22 doesn't have the legs to reach far into china, and the US navy has very limited range at the moment with its Super Hornets.

The F-22 with four 600 gallon external tanks would be a great escort. Even with the extra drag it could still cruise above Mach 1 and have a combat radius well over 1000 miles, once it reachs the combat zone, the external tanks are dropped and the F-22 has full internal fuel and stealth to get the mission done and return home. Im not even sure if external tanks have even been cleared on the F-22 though.
 

DarthAmerica

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
sorry, I should've stated it more clearly. Suppose this happened in the event of a war and China was trying to blind US satellite. And these laser countermeasures are located deep in land, let's say Xinjiang.

Well there are several means the DoD has to cover Xinjiang. U.S. Spacecraft are strategic assets and their loss could have far reaching consequences possibly resulting in huge US/Allied loss of life in a shooting war. The JCS would go ballistic. But it ultimately depends on how effective the Chinese attack was. If its a question of losing the conflict then I'd say the USA would spare no expense to find a way to destroy the site. In my opinion, the Chinese wouldn't reveal a capability like this just because. They would be doing it to exploit the loss of coverage in support of a much more damaging attack. In that case...

B-2A Blk30

Pro's
  • designed to penetrate the toughest defense
  • adequate payload
  • adequate range and persistence
Con's
  • Long response time(12 to 24 hours at least)
  • limited numbers and availability
  • huge propaganda and technological coup if shot down
  • Risk to air crew

F-22A/F-117

Pro's
  • able to penetrate defense
Con's
  • limited payload
  • requires a lot of support(tankers, basing rights, overflight rights)
  • Risk to air crew
  • long response time


SLBM sorties

Pro's
  • Prompt immediate response(minutes)
  • excellent lethality
  • nearly unstoppable
Con's
  • Risk of escalation to full nuclear war
  • Fall Out
  • Possible Chinese nuclear retaliatory strike attempt

Depending on the urgency the SLBM is the most likely response. The USA ideveloping conventional warheads for SLBM's, conventional IRSLBM's, hypersonic cruise missiles and possibly even DEW's to give prompt non nuclear options for dealing with threats like this.


DA
 

ahussains

New Member
Well there are several means the DoD has to cover Xinjiang. U.S. Spacecraft are strategic assets and their loss could have far reaching consequences possibly resulting in huge US/Allied loss of life in a shooting war. The JCS would go ballistic. But it ultimately depends on how effective the Chinese attack was. If its a question of losing the conflict then I'd say the USA would spare no expense to find a way to destroy the site. In my opinion, the Chinese wouldn't reveal a capability like this just because. They would be doing it to exploit the loss of coverage in support of a much more damaging attack. In that case...

B-2A Blk30

Pro's
  • designed to penetrate the toughest defense
  • adequate payload
  • adequate range and persistence
Con's
  • Long response time(12 to 24 hours at least)
  • limited numbers and availability
  • huge propaganda and technological coup if shot down
  • Risk to air crew
F-22A/F-117

Pro's
  • able to penetrate defense
Con's
  • limited payload
  • requires a lot of support(tankers, basing rights, overflight rights)
  • Risk to air crew
  • long response time

SLBM sorties

Pro's
  • Prompt immediate response(minutes)
  • excellent lethality
  • nearly unstoppable
Con's
  • Risk of escalation to full nuclear war
  • Fall Out
  • Possible Chinese nuclear retaliatory strike attempt
Depending on the urgency the SLBM is the most likely response. The USA ideveloping conventional warheads for SLBM's, conventional IRSLBM's, hypersonic cruise missiles and possibly even DEW's to give prompt non nuclear options for dealing with threats like this.


DA
What you thinks chinees are looking for you . please come and hit us .. they are already well prepared .. COME and join the PARTY..:nutkick
 

goldenpanda

New Member
I don't think USA can find anything in China. We have so much terrain we conceal everything extremely well--and we love to hide things you all know that :)

There's also a big problem launching aircraft from foreign soil willy nilly. We saw that in both Gulf wars. Considering Japan would bring war to home soil first time since WWII, against slightly trigger happy Chinese, I doubt you could use even Okinawa against us.
 
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