World navy listings discussions

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umair

Peace Enforcer
Re: World Navies Listing

Rick have you included vessels being built in the list?
If that's the case then PN has currently two AIP equipped Agostas(one in service, one in the shipyard) also the first 90B will get the AIP in it's retrofit. Plus it also has a licence to build upto 3 more though I don't see them being built anytime soon.(probably to replace the older Agosta 90As)
 

umair

Peace Enforcer
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
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Re: World Navies Listing

OK looks like my source was off.Thanks
 

JBodnar39

New Member
Re: World Navies Listing

Rick - Great list - I have put together one of my own that also includes active AC and missles holdings. I am going to compare yours to mine, because I think yours is more accurate. Thats for the info
 

wzhtg

New Member
Re: World Navies Listing

Erm.....the listing for Malaysia is wrong. Malaysia's navy has 2 F2000 frigates not 4. It also has 4 lakasama class coervettes and 1 kasturi class frigate. A100 meko OPVs are on the way. 2 scorpene class subs on the way and 1 agosta sub on the way.PLus, it haas 6 super lynx helicoptors
 

su-47

New Member
Re: World Navies Listing

The Indian navy should be in Tier 2 or the Russian navy should be bumped down to tier 3. The Russian navy is selling off a lot of its ships and its in-service ships are falling apart. The Russian sub-fleet isnt in very good condton either. Even Russian admirals are starting to describe the Russian navy as a "junkyard".
 

doggychow14

New Member
Re: World Navies Listing

For china shoudln't it be 4 + 8 kilos. There should also be 2 yuan ssks. the list is also missing the 051C which should be 1+1 (114 under construction). Under the frigates section its the 054 which should be 2 or 2 + 2(054A) rather than 0 + 4.
 
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wzhtg

New Member
Re: World Navies Listing

Oh i see. Actually i think there is 1 more frigate. A very old one though. 1 Rahmut class frigate 104MM,40MM,ASRL,HELOS) .And also a 1 NEWPORT CLASS LST and 1 FAJAR SAMUDERA TRANSPORT VESSEL . You can check with this link http://navypaskal.cjb.net/
 

diopos

New Member
Re: World Navies Listing

Rickusn i am new in this forum , so first of all i would like to say a big hello and congratulations for all the usefull and interesting information listed in these threads.
:)

Before i start checking all the previous threads i had a look at your sticky thread about world navies and i would like to ask you if the order you have put them is according to their capabilities.

If it is so , i wonder how come Chile to be considered as having a better navy then Greece .
And not only Chile but the listing is strange.
You put Canada in the Tier 5A ??(!) How come?
Also you write that you avoid to mention ships under 1000 tons but while you make exception for Mine warfare ships you forget to mention Fast Attack ships (like those that Turkey and Greece have in quite big numbers and in good quality - but countries with open waters like Canada dont have at all).

I think that without taking in consideration of all the ships and capabilities (including aircrafts and helicopters , tradition and shipbuilding industries etc) we have the wrong impressions and conclusions about some navies...

thank you
and congrats one more time


PS: In the list of the navies this is short report on Greek navy :

FRIGATES
4 MEKO 200 class 3200fl (German-design)
10 ex-Netherlands Kortenaer class 3800fl
SUBMARINES
1+3 Type 214 class (German-design)
8 Type 209 class (German-design)
AMPHIBIOUS
6 LST
MINE WARFARE
0+2 MHC ex-USN Osprey class
4 MHC
9 MSC
REPLENISHMENT
1 AOR
4 AO

Some minor corrections that should be made are :

There are no 6 but 5 LST ships (Jason class LSTs , constructed during 90s , 4,400tons )
(smaller but very capable are also the non mentioned in the list 4 ZUBR CLASS (POMORNIK) AIR CUSHIONED LANDING CRAFTS - 580 tons /max speed 60knots)

About replenishment ships :

Currently there are 3 of them . 2 of them are older designs (german, 4,500tons) and one brand new (2003 , A-473 Prometheus (similar to italian ETNA class).
Prometheus is currently the larger ship of the hellenic navy , (displacement 13,400 tons )


And finally about the Mine warfare ships .
Currently the hellenic navy has 2 HUNT class (former british navy , 670 tons , 1986)
The rest are 7 old MSCs and 1 MHC
. All the other are decomissioned.
I dont know any official news about the OSPREY from USN . There were discussions but i will try to get some news soon.
 
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diopos

New Member
Re: World Navies Listing

Rickusn thank you for your answer and your comments! :)

separate listing for Guided Missle Patrol Combatants/Craft.
Can you please tell me the link for this thread?

Ranking navies is a difficult and contentious undertaking
I agree absolutely...

I have been considering deleting the Tier 5 sub-categories because they are not as useful now as when I first started this project.
In my opinion this is the right move to do. Tier 5 is better to have all the navies together instead in subcategories.

I will try to help you by giving you the latest ensured info about the Hellenic navy (with photos ) so you can update your list or your database.
I also hope to help other forumers who would like to know the situation of the fleet of the hellenic navy today.

AOR/AOs

Decomissioned AOs (very old PATAPSCO class)
A-377 Arethousa was decomissioned in 2004.
A-414 Ariadni was decomissioned in 2003.


AOR/AOs in use today (October 2005)

1) A-374 Prometheus (Similar design to ETNA class italian AOR / delivered new in 2003 / 13,400tons full load /largest ship of hellenic navy)
http://www.hellasarmy.gr/a374-2b.jpg

2) A-464 Axios , A-470 Aliakmon ( old german design / built in 1968 for german navy /delivered from the greek navy in 1991/ 3,700 tons full load )

Regarding the Mine warfare ships (ships in use today - october 2005 ):

MHCs

1) M-60 Erato (ex Italian M-5504 Castagno / ex -USS AMS/MSC-74 /delivered for the USN in 1954 /delivered in the HN from the italian one in 1995)

The second ex-italian ship you name in your list is decommisioned since 2004 (it was the M-61 Eunike , ex italian GELSO M5509 / ex USS AMS/MSC-75)

2) M-62 Europa , M-63 Kallisto (HUNT class british MCMs Bicester M 36 / delivered for the British navy in 1986,1988 / delivered for the greek navy in 2000 /the newest mine warfare ships of HN )
http://www.hellenicnavy.gr/Ships Photos/M-62.JPG

MSCs

7 total (old ships built during 60s)

M-211 Alkyon ( ex USS MSC319 )
M-213 Kleio (ex USS MSC317 )
M-214 Ayra (ex USS MSC318 )
M-240 Aedon (ex USS MSC294 )
M-241 Kichli (ex USS MSC 308. )
M-241 Kissa (ex USS MSC 309. )
M-248 Pleias (ex USS MSC 310. )

The 8th ship of your MSCs list M-247 Daphne (ex USS MSC 307 was decomissioned in 2004)
The ex belgian ship that you name was M-210 Thaleia (ex belgian BLANKEBERGE M923 / ex USS MSC170 ) .It was decomissioned in 2004.

The officers of the HN have expressed the immediate need for newer ships , so in the next years perhaps it is in the priorities of HN the acquisition of 3-4 newer ships (probably used but of newer types)
One most possible scenario at the moment is the OSPREY class from the USN.

I hope i helped a bit :)
greetings from Greece
 
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diopos

New Member
Re: World Navies Listing

Thank you admin!! :)

<Greece>
PGG
3 Sa'ar IV class 450fl
3 Super Vita class 570fl
9 Combattante III class 450fl
PTG
6 ex-German Type 148 265fl
2 Combattante class 255fl
2 Stamou class 115fl
The current (october 2005) status of HN PDGs and PCGs is as follows :

--> There are no any Saar IV boats carying anti-ship missiles. (the only Saar 4 boats that i have seen with my eyes are in use from the Hellenic Coastguard and cary no missiles)

--> 6 Type 148 (or CombattanteIIA) Fast Attack Ships (PTGs ) (P-72 , P-73 and P-77 cary EXOCET MM38 missiles while all the rest cary HARPOON)

P-72 Votsis (ex german P6152 /built 1973 / delivered from HN in 1995)
P-73 Pezopoulos (ex german P6142 /built 1972 /delivered from HN in 1995)
P-74 Vlachavas (ex german P6144/built 1973 /delivered 1995)
P-75 Maridakis (ex german P6151 /built 1974/delivered 1995)
P-76 Tournas (ex german P6145/built 1973/delivered 2000)
P-77 Sakipis (ex german P6147/built 1973/delivered 2000)

--> 9 Combattante III (both III and IIIB)
Fast Attack boats (PGGs) (french design , built in France and Greece , P-20,21,22,23 have EXOCET MM38 while P-24,26,27,28,29 have PENGUIN Mk2 missiles , ~45Otons full load)

P-24 Kavaloudis (built 1979)
P-26 Degiannis (built 1980)
P-27 Xenos (built 1980)
P-28 Simitzopoulos (built 1980)
P-29 Starakis (built 1980)

P-20 Laskos (built 1976 )
P-21 Blessas (built 1976)
P-22 Mykonios (built 1977)
P-23 Troupakis (built 1976)

There is in progress an upgrade program for some of the above ships (undertaken by THALES-mainly new sensors/radars/EW systems)

The following small boats (115tons) were originaly ordered for cyprus but after the invasion they were delivered to the HN. (built in france 1974 / SS-11/12 missiles).

P-286 Antoniou
P-287 Stamou

--> And finally under order/delivery are the followin 5 Super Vita PGGs (Vosper design , EXOCET MM 40 Block 2 missiles + RAM)

P-67 Roussen (delivery in 2004??)
P-68 Daniolos (laid down)
P-69 Krystallidis (laid down)
P-70 Grigoropoulos
P-71 Ritsos

There is limited information concerning the official delivery of the first 3 ships from the HN.
There is no such announcement in greek media or HN site.
For sure the first two are in see trials.
 
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diopos

New Member
Re: World Navies Listing

Rickusn ! Thank you friend! :)
Thanks for the updated info on the Hellenic Navy.

I am going to start a new thread on this forum analysing the Greek Navy and by extension some of the other navies in Tier 5B to try and answer yoour questions on why some may think it not as capable as other similar navies.
Anytime!
I am glad that you updated and changed a bit the list , much better now!
If you need any more info about hellenic navy just tell me or send me a message (because i can read the greek homepages and military magazines sometimes i can check out more easily any news).

I would be glad to contribute to your new thread when you post it :)
 

pepsi

New Member
Re: World Navies Listing

I find it interesting that Australia is Tier 5, considering the whole island continent thing, you would think we would be at least Tier 4

When the new AWD's and Amphib LHD's are completed, would that put us at Tier 4?

Also, none of the 6 LCH's seem to be listed, or the 1 LSH (unless that has been retired now?)

I don't see too much difference between Aus and Spain once those are taken into consideration
 
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pepsi

New Member
Re: World Navies Listing

Ah i see, i didn't realise the LCH's weren't considered a major unit, i figured they would be due to our smaller navy

Thanks for clearing that up
 

umair

Peace Enforcer
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #15
Re: World Navies Listing

Au contraire Rick. I find this thread to be pretty informative. If you could just please ignore the kids.
And btw I don't think anyone here can make you look like an idiot.
 

pepsi

New Member
Re: World Navies Listing

rickusn said:
Because it appears to be serving no useful purpose.

Unless trying to make me look like an idiot IS a useful purpose.

ADIOS
If thats directed at me, i was simply asking a question and commenting on the RAN's position compared to other nations.. :unknown
 

KAPITAIN

New Member
Australian navy is good only for defence, it has limited capibility in attack it has no forward air cover once out of range of land based air craft its submarines can only travel so far they have limited endurance and the frigates are getting very old they need a overhaul of the entire navy.

As for russia according now to USN analysts it has the 2nd largest navy in the world, with the most strategic nuclear missile submarines 16 as opposed to 14 in america (but american ones carry more missiles).

the new fleet of russia will look something like this:

2-4 CV
4 CG (at least)
14 DDG
24 FFG
16 FFL

12-14 SSBN's
28 SSN's (maybe reduced)
12 SSK

thats a rough outline of the 2020 russian fleet, right now the fleet is getting old but new submarines are getting build as are new ships.
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
KAPITAIN said:
Australian navy is good only for defence, it has limited capibility in attack it has no forward air cover once out of range of land based air craft its submarines can only travel so far they have limited endurance and the frigates are getting very old they need a overhaul of the entire navy.
I have no idea where you gather your data - but it is so horribly inaccurate I am beginning to suspect that you are trolling.

You do understand that Navies are designed to reflect the national interest. In australias case we have intl recognised authority to guard 1/9th of the worlds oceans - and that means significant surveillance and interdiction capability. part of that involves OTHS and BAMs keyed into maritime projection. Who do you suggest that we attack in our region to validate our equipments offensive capabilities? have you even bothered to look at the RANs recent upgrades to all its frontline combat surface vessels?

Modernity: Over 50% of the RAN frontline combat surface vessels are less than 15 years old. You do understand that the curent fleet has just undergone a warfighting improvement programme - and that 3 Aegis kitted DDG's have been tagged and confirmed for build?

Air Cover: Ever measured the range of an F-111? They were bought prior to us joining the NPT when we had our own nuke weapons programme. The intent was to be able to go to Jakarta and return. Their current standoff weapons means that that range is longer again. Have you looked at what missiles have been ordered just this year?

Sub Range: Good grief, where do you get this rubbish? Even the Oberons during the Cold War regularly used to run surveillance into Eastern Russia as well as assist Nato in the Northern Atlantic. That has only just been released under the 30 year rule - so its not going to be in any mainstream publications. The Collins are fleet submarines - they were designed expressly to be able to trawl and interact with NATO at maximum range. They have the same cycle times as a nuke - and thats not a warfooting.



KAPITAIN said:
As for russia according now to USN analysts it has the 2nd largest navy in the world, with the most strategic nuclear missile submarines 16 as opposed to 14 in america (but american ones carry more missiles).

the new fleet of russia will look something like this:

2-4 CV
4 CG (at least)
14 DDG
24 FFG
16 FFL

12-14 SSBN's
28 SSN's (maybe reduced)
12 SSK

thats a rough outline of the 2020 russian fleet, right now the fleet is getting old but new submarines are getting build as are new ships.
What? Russia has no intentions of building another 2-4 CV's. Certainly not by 2020.

Last year she cut up 16 nukes, the year before 17, this year they are destined to cut up another 19. Australia is actually co-funding the destruction of subs this year

In the last 2 years they have launched one sub for active service. They have slowed production on another 2 because they have no funds (why do you think they've asked Canada, Australia, the US, Japan and Germany to contribute more money to their nuke destruction programme? They don't have the funds to undertake basic maint let alone refund a fleet. There are too many competing priorities - and the Navy revitalisation programme is not at the head of the queue.

Rather than make comments that are so fundamentally flawed, you need to pause before comment.
 

KAPITAIN

New Member
"I have no idea where you gather your data - but it is so horribly inaccurate I am beginning to suspect that you are trolling"

No i think you read me wrong come to think of it i also read it wrong! what i mean is the the australian navy is good for defending what it needs to defend as you said 1/9th of the worlds oceans, its fleet is very capible in its role, my knowlage of Australian navy is limited but i also hear you guys are planning to purchase aegies tech which will enhance defence.

And yes i know the DDG's have been planned and tagged for building which is good, when stating that most need up grading i was talking more along the lines of the perry frigates, they in themselves are getting old.

As for new builds in the RAN its a good thing.


as for the new carriers for russia well russia officaly announced them back in 2002 so i believe get more information to you very very soon.
 

KAPITAIN

New Member
I have noted 4 talawar class corvettes that have been launch for india, also one borey class SSBN one building, 1 lada class been launched two other's building two new frigates are also undergoing completion and plans for a new CV to replace the kuznetsov is also underway.
 
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