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This is a discussion on Royal Canadian Navy Discussions and updates within the Navy & Maritime forum, part of the Global Defense & Military category; The tribals will have to be replaced in the near future, anyone have any thoughts on possible replacements. I think ...


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Old September 30th, 2005   #1
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The tribals will have to be replaced in the near future, anyone have any thoughts on possible replacements. I think the replacements should be slightly larger to accomodate the CnC task and also for future upgrades. I think the anti air/missile capability should be enhanced as the city class frigates could handle the ASW component of any taskforce. Would six be enough, this would leave on avail on each coast at all times.
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Old October 17th, 2005   #2
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Re: Canadian tribal replacement

De Zeven Provincien Class. The Arleigh Burkes are too expensive in terms of cash and personnel. The LCF meets your suggested requirements of size and Command functions and actually have a lower manpower footprint than the Tribals.
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Old October 24th, 2005   #3
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Re: Canadian tribal replacement

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Originally Posted by JAF
De Zeven Provincien Class. The Arleigh Burkes are too expensive in terms of cash and personnel. The LCF meets your suggested requirements of size and Command functions and actually have a lower manpower footprint than the Tribals.
Actually, Canada co-funded the APAR infrastructure with Netherlands and Germany. In fact, rather than LCF, you should look as a Halifax class derivative with APAR.

See: http://www.hazegray.org/navhist/cana...rent/futurddg/

www.hazegray.org

Look in: Canadian Navy of Yesterday & Today

Look under Destroyers, concept DDG in:

The Canadian Navy of Yesterday & Today. Current Canadian Ship Listing 2005

"PROVINCE" class concept (DDG) air defence / anti-submarine destroyer
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Old October 24th, 2005   #4
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Re: Canadian tribal replacement

Hi I am a little confused by the tribal clasification? Are you talking about the Iroquois class that needs replacement? I know dumb question
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Old October 24th, 2005   #5
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Re: Canadian tribal replacement

Fr: Slapshot, quote; “Hi I am a little confused by the tribal clasification? Are you talking about the Iroquois class that needs replacement? I know dumb question”

Yes, the Tribal class and Iroquois are the same

Fr Tetra, quote: “Actually, Canada co-funded the APAR infrastructure with Netherlands and Germany. In fact, rather than LCF, you should look as a Halifax class derivative with APAR.”

I don’t agree. The Halifax design is getting on in age and is not nearly as stealthy as it could be. They are cramped vessels cuz so much stuff has been crammed in to a small hull, relatively speaking, compared to the LCF. The design would need so much tinkering in order for them to become a truly modern AAW/Task force command platform that they would have little in common with the original design. Additionally the Halifax still has a larger manpower footprint than the LCF. I doubt building new ones with AAW/ command functions as their primary role will reduce this.
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Old October 24th, 2005   #6
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Re: Canadian tribal replacement

Second hand Spruance (sp?) or a MEKO design with large hanger wouldn't surprise me.
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Old October 24th, 2005   #7
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Re: Canadian tribal replacement

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Originally Posted by stephen weist
The tribals will have to be replaced in the near future, anyone have any thoughts on possible replacements. I think the replacements should be slightly larger to accomodate the CnC task and also for future upgrades. I think the anti air/missile capability should be enhanced as the city class frigates could handle the ASW component of any taskforce. Would six be enough, this would leave on avail on each coast at all times.
While I confess to have limited knowledge of naval matters, I will say that the priority should be to make sure that our ships can operate in ice conditions that are found in the arctic. Also a Littoral capability perhaps with the help of our Norwregian and swedish friends in procuring a lean, mean Coastal patrol and arctic patrol class that can also be good in a scrap.
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Old October 30th, 2005   #8
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Re: Canadian tribal replacement

Thanks Jaf for the clarification. I think the Canadian goverment not the Navy will just do another Life Extension Program or go cheep and buy second hand ships if they can. Case in point the Upholders we got from the Britts. We seem to do that to often for my taste in this country. Yes they need to be replaced but I hope they do it right and get the best for our guys and gals who do a great job with what they are given.
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Old November 3rd, 2005   #9
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Re: Canadian tribal replacement

slapshot, the correct class name is Tribal, the ships were then named after Native tribes in Canada. the Iroquois was the first of the class but alot of people call the class after her.
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Old December 18th, 2005   #10
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Re: Canadian tribal replacement

The JSS has overshadowed all other Navy projects. A shame really.

I just cant see a liberal government replacing the Tribals.

Thats why im voting conservative lol, even though their track record on defense is just as bad.
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Old December 18th, 2005   #11
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What is the JSS
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Old December 19th, 2005   #12
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Re: Canadian tribal replacement

Some interesting thoughts here, my 5 cents worth is:

1-yes they will use APAR system with Mk41 VLS, or the newer VLS system now under contruction. They will use standard III/ESSM/Tomohawk (maybe the later in time), the number of VLS launchers will be similar to the LCF/F-124(no more than 6x8 probably). It will carry an active LF towed array, 5in gun, CIWS (Sea-RAM ?) and a cylcone ASW helo.

2-it will be on a whole new warship design, no up-dated or off the shelf types. The candians will need to retrain some within state warships design ability.

3-i imagine no more than 3-4 units will be built.

4- off topic, i do not consider halifax a successful design, any comments ?
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Old December 20th, 2005   #13
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4- off topic, i do not consider halifax a successful design, any comments ?

Why? By what standard of success do you measure. Consider what Canada had beofre then. 30+ year old steamers.
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Old December 20th, 2005   #14
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Re: Canadian tribal replacement

For a large vessel i consider it under armed, its above deck VLS system along the side of the hanger has not allowed much exspansion of its firepower. It has a 57mm gun and onw CIWS. It is a shame with was not equipped with 8cell Mk 41 VLS below deck. Its an opinion, its a good looking ship and designed for atalantic ASW missions..
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Old December 20th, 2005   #15
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Re: Canadian tribal replacement

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For a large vessel i consider it under armed, its above deck VLS system along the side of the hanger has not allowed much exspansion of its firepower. It has a 57mm gun and onw CIWS. It is a shame with was not equipped with 8cell Mk 41 VLS below deck. Its an opinion, its a good looking ship and designed for atalantic ASW missions..

Interesting. I was just curious. On first inspection much of what you have written is bang on.

When the ship was designed (Pre 1985) The sparrow was one of a few choices of PDMS. The MK 41 VLS at the time was earmarked for Standard II, which the Halifax class is not designed to use, being primarily, as you have rightly indicated, an ASW vessel. The other choices of the day were Tomahawks, which you, me and everyone else can forget about Canada ever having, and VLS ASROC, not in the budget.

Now that the Evolved Sea Sparrow has come into being, and with greater oprions for the MK 41, hind sight is always 20/20. 32 VLS in total (16 per side that is) still seems like plenty of PDMS missiles.

As for the Bofors Mk II 57mm, it was reasoned that at the time it would have a greater duo role of surface action against small attack boats and as a secondary PDGS.

Evolving as these discussions naturally do, what role do you see for a 5 in gun on a frigate or destroyer?
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