dabrownguy
New Member
T-98 compared to the Arjun, which is better and at what? Please support your answers and be polite this is not a flame war! I put this post up to learn more of the T-98 which I heard will or is a great tank.
T-98 vs Arjun
- Thread starter dabrownguy
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I have made comment on this issue in another forum, so I will just cut and paste my response from that one...:
"The T-98 is basically a T-72 with a late generation turret. The Arjun has had a 6-7 year gestation period.
I'm not sure either are able to be commented on.
But if I was looking at how the T-72's were absolutely pasted by M1A1's and Challengers in Iraq and how the Chechyans pasted them badly in Grozny, then I wouldn't be too keen about sitting in anything that was a repainted and reconfigured T-72."
"The T-98 is basically a T-72 with a late generation turret. The Arjun has had a 6-7 year gestation period.
I'm not sure either are able to be commented on.
But if I was looking at how the T-72's were absolutely pasted by M1A1's and Challengers in Iraq and how the Chechyans pasted them badly in Grozny, then I wouldn't be too keen about sitting in anything that was a repainted and reconfigured T-72."
dabrownguy
New Member
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #3
T-98 is a T-90 ungrade is it not?
oww wait it was meant to counter the T-90!
opps, sometimes I don't know what I know!
oww wait it was meant to counter the T-90!
opps, sometimes I don't know what I know!
The type 98 traces its lineage back to the T-72bu (?) The problem is that as good as the T-72 was, it is not able to survive in a modern tank battle.dabrownguy said:
Granted there has been changes to the front Glacis etc.. but the inherent design flaws of the 72 are still present.
But for competition with tanks in Chinas region it is probably going to last in a tank on tank confrontation. I wouldn't like to make an assessment on it against ATM like the Javelin (see the clip of what a Javelin did to a T80)
Revival_786
New Member
What are the stats of the two tanks?
elkaboingo
New Member
t-72 did not have hunter/killer which is why it got a killing by abrams and challenger. also in hunter/killer you can target two things at once, making the battle a turkey shoot. t-72 had to stop to fire. do the t-98 and arjun have hunter/killer?
when you blokes refer to hunter/killer do you mean an ability to shoot in motion?
if thats the case then there are currently very few tanks that have that capacity "at speed".
I think its the M1aX, Challenger X, LecLerc and one of the later T series.
AFAIK T-80's had autoloader stabilisation problems "at speed".
if thats the case then there are currently very few tanks that have that capacity "at speed".
I think its the M1aX, Challenger X, LecLerc and one of the later T series.
AFAIK T-80's had autoloader stabilisation problems "at speed".
dabrownguy
New Member
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #11
I supose theres no way we can compare them because T-98`s stats cant be found and T-98G.
yutong chen
New Member
First, it is Type 98, not T-98. T-something are Russian series. Type 98 have a counter for ATM. The designs are very different between Type 98 and T-72. Type 98 have a 1200HP engine while T-72 have a 840HP engine. The Type 98's hull is way longer than the T-72's hull. T-72 was introduced in 1985 while the Type98 was introduced in 2002. The Type 98 was developed to challenge the M1 series.
The thickness of the armor doesn't matter. It depends on what type of armor the tank uses.
The thickness of the armor doesn't matter. It depends on what type of armor the tank uses.
Arjun
Certainly from my sources the Arjun is in trouble. Arjun it has had persistent problems with the the drivetrain.
OTOH the TAN EX, (Usually and incorrectly referred to as the "Arjun 2" is alive and moving forward). The Tan Ex is a complete T-72M1 chassis fitted with the Arjun turret.
Other AFV plans such as the 155mm SPH that were based on the Arjun chassis have been canned in the interim. The programme is supposed to be in suspension but the fact that other development has been prioritised and that hybrids are being fast tracked would seem to show that the Arjun core programme is a little unwell. Its rapidly becoming an orphaned programme.
Inidian AFV is geared up to produce the T-72M1 chassis, so it would seem that rather than lose extra time (6 years to date) they will go to a tried and true, but less sophisticated solution.
The T90 programme is healthy, on target, on track etc... (no pun intended)
Certainly from my sources the Arjun is in trouble. Arjun it has had persistent problems with the the drivetrain.
OTOH the TAN EX, (Usually and incorrectly referred to as the "Arjun 2" is alive and moving forward). The Tan Ex is a complete T-72M1 chassis fitted with the Arjun turret.
Other AFV plans such as the 155mm SPH that were based on the Arjun chassis have been canned in the interim. The programme is supposed to be in suspension but the fact that other development has been prioritised and that hybrids are being fast tracked would seem to show that the Arjun core programme is a little unwell. Its rapidly becoming an orphaned programme.
Inidian AFV is geared up to produce the T-72M1 chassis, so it would seem that rather than lose extra time (6 years to date) they will go to a tried and true, but less sophisticated solution.
The T90 programme is healthy, on target, on track etc... (no pun intended)
dabrownguy
New Member
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #14
gf0012,
That made no sence to me. 30 Arjuns have been inducted and more are on the way and Arjun MK 2 is being worked on with Isreali help. Isreal is putting in some nice tech. Type 98 was shown in 1999 wasn't it?
Arjun:
Main Battle Tank, Arjun
Main Battle Tank (MBT) Arjun is a multi-laboratory programme of DRDO with CVRDE as the lead Laboratory. It is a state-of-the-art tank with superior fire power, high mobility, and excellent protection. Twelve Mk 1 prototypes of MBT Arjun have been manufactured and their performance tests have provided satisfactory results. Some of the breakthroughs achieved by CVRDE during the development of MBT Arjun are in Engine, Transmission, Hydropneumatic Suspension, Hull and Turret, and Gun Control System.
Salient Features
Fire Power
The superior armour defeating capability of the indigenously developed Fin Stabilized Armour Piercing Discarding Sabot (FSAPDS) ammunition and 120 mm calibre rifled gun give MBT ARJUN an edge over contemporary world tanks. A computer-controlled integrated fire control system incorporating day-cum-night stabilized sighting system guarantees a very high first round hit probability and reduced reaction time to bring effective fire on targets.
The stabilization system for the main armament, slaved to the sighting equipment in elevation and azimuth, with a high and accurate laying speed, allows fire on the move.
The superior fire power of MBT is based on:
Accurate and fast target acquisition capability during day and night and in all types of weather .
Shortest possible reaction time during combat engagements
Ability to accurately engage targets on move
Capability to destroy all possible enemy armour at maximum battle ranges
Excellent first hit probability
Main Armament
The rifled 120 mm ARJUN gun together with the newly developed super velocity ammunition, can defeat any contemporary armour used in tanks. The electro-slag refined gun steel tube is autofrettaged to withstand higher gas pressures. A thermal jacket prevents irregular temperature distribution on to the tube due to the weather influences.
Secondary Armament
A co-axial 7.62 mm machine gun for anti-personnel and a 12.7 mm machine gun for anti-aircraft and ground targets are provided as secondary weapons.
Gunner's Main Sight
Gunner's Main Sight consists of a day-sight, thermal sight, a laser range finder and a stabilized head common to all the three channels. The common sighting head mirror is stabilized in elevation and azimuth. The day- sight provides dual magnification.
The thermal imager provides night vision facility to the gunner and the commander to observe and engage target in total darkness and in the presence of smoke, dust, haze and light camouflage. Integral with the main sight is the laser range finder by which targets can be ranged accurately.
Panoramic Sight for Commander
Commander's panoramic sight enables the commander to effect an all round surveillance in the battlefield without removing his eyes from the sight and without being disturbed by the turret motion. The field of view is stabilized with the help of a two axes rate gyro-mounted on the platform of the head mirror. The sight offers dual magnification.
Ammunition
Two types of ammunition, viz, FSAPDS and HESH have been developed for this armament. The highly lethal
FSAPDS ammunition which is the main battle ammunition of the tank has accounted itself admirably during the trails. In addition, the anti-helicopter round to combat the air threat to armour is also under development.
Mobility
Low ground pressure, high power-to-weight ratio and new design concepts in transmission suspension and
running gear result in highly mobile and agile weapon platform.
The remarkable mobility of MBT which also adds to its protection is the result of:
High performance engine
Robust and effective transmission system particularly flexible hydropneumatic suspension .
Optimized running gear with its high shock energy absorption.
Due to the high power-to-weight ratio and low specific ground pressure, MBT is fast, highly manoeuvrable and extremely mobile to cross the most difficult terrain with ease. High acceleration rapid braking capabilities with excellent steering characteristics make MBT agile in the battlefield. Adequate fuel storage capacity and relatively low fuel consumption allow for an optimal operational range.
An important criterion for the mobility of any AFV is the effective performance of the driver. Excellent vision systems both for day and night provide most effective means of observation in all battlefield conditions. The need to keep the crew's fatigue including that of driver at the minimum level over long periods of continuous operation, have been taken care of.
Protection
All round protection from anti-tank ammunition is achieved by t~e newly developed KANCHAN armour to a degree much higher than available in present generation tanks. The high degree of immunity is achieved by.
The computerised design and simulation
A fabricated turret housing lightweight compact KANCHAN armour
Careful dimensioning of wall through optimal slopes and angles
A low silhouette
Crew Comfort
Ergonometry, using anthropometric data of Indian troops, has been kept in view while designing the fighting and driving compartments to fully exploit the outstanding features of the weapon system. Hydropneumatic suspension provides excellent ride comfort for crew eliminating fatigue even on the extended runs.
Specifications
Dimensions
Overall length {with gun forward) 10.638 m
Overall height {with gun rear) 9.546 m
Overall height {with AD gun mount) 3.03 m(Turret roof: 2.32 m)
Overall width 3.864 m
Combat weight 58.5 tons
Technical Characteristics
Max speed 70 km/hr
Max speed on cross country 40 km/hr
Ground pressure 0.84 kg/sq. cm.
Engine power 1400 HP at 2400 rpm
Engine characteristics V 90° Turbo charged diesel, 10 cylinder water cooled
Power-to-weight ratio 24:1 HP/ton
Gear box 4 fwd +2 rev gears Epicyclic gear train, Torque converter, Mech lockup clutch & hydrodynamic retarder
Steering Double radii, mechancial steering with neutral turn
Suspension Hydrogas
Shallow fording 1.4 m
Vertical obstacle 0.914 m
Trench crossing 2.43 m
Gradient 35 deg
Gun 120 mm rifled
Rate of fire 6-8 rounds per minute
Ammunition 39 rounds (FSAPDS/HESH)
Co-axial machine gun Mag 7.62 mm Tk 715 A
Anti aircraft machine gun HCB 12.7 mm
Fire control system Director type
Gun control system Electro-hydraulic
Night vision Thermal imaging
Ballistic computer Digital
Crew 4 (Cmdr, Gnr, Ldr. Dvr)
Type 98 Main Battle Tank
NAME
PLA designation: Type 98
Manufacturer name: WZ-123
CONTRACTOR: China North Industries Group Corporation (NORINCO)
SERVICE STATUS: A small number in service with the Army for trial and tests. Mass production expected to begin in 2002 to 2004.
PROGRAMME
The Type 98 is the latest derivative of the Type 90 main battle tank (MBT) family. It is also the officially certified version of China's third generation MBT programme, which had undergone development for fifteen years since the mid-1980s. It is understood that the development of the Chinese third generation MBT suffered certain technical difficulties in the early 1990s. The scheduled date of commissioning was postponed several times, until the initial approval certificate of the Type 98 was issued in 1998.
Type 98 is the latest variant of the Type 90 MBT family
The Type 98 was first revealed to the public in the national day parade on 1 Oct 1999. A small number of the initial production model is in service with the Army for initial evaluations and tests. It is expected that the final production model of the Type 98 will join the service before 2004, depending on progress of the final modification work.
The original design target of the Chinese third generation MBT was as a counter to the Soviet T-72, but the changing requirements shifted the development towards a much more sophisticated machine. The later design criteria of the Type 98 was aiming at challenging the U.S. M1A1 Abrams, while certain aspects of the actually performance of the Type 98 is approaching the standard of the M1A2.
It is surprising that China has developed two MBTs, the Type 96 and the Type 98, with similar performance at the same time. Although the Type 96 was regarded as the second generation MBT, while the Type 98 as the third generation MBT, they are comparable in term of general performance and technology. One possible explanation is that the Type 98 will be equipped by the most elite units in a relatively small number, while the Type 96, with less sophisticated technology and therefore cheaper unit price, will replace the bulk of Type 59/69 in current service.
Type 98 in field test
DESIGN FEATURES
The layout of the Type 98 is conventional, with certain influence by the Soviet tank designs. The driver's compartment is at the front, with fighting compartment/turret in the centre, and power pack in the rear. The complete powerpack assembly can be removed in around 30~40 minutes and in field conditions. Suspension is of the conventional torsion bar type and there are six rubber-tyred roadwheels on each side, the drive sprocket at the rear.
To accommodate more equipment and rounds, the Type 98's turret is slightly larger than that of the Type 90, which has resulted in a gap between turret and the hull in the front. This could be a major disadvantage in the battle as the whole turret might be blown off if the gap is hit.
Rear view of the Type 98
In addition, the Type 98 also lacks designs often found on Western MBTs to minimise the damage in the event of penetration by a HEAT projectile. For example, the armour bulkheads to separate the crew compartment from the fuel tanks and rounds, as well as the top panels designed to blow outwards in case of explosion. This could lead to low survivability in modern combat field according to the experience of the 1991 Gulf War.
ARMAMENT: The main armament is a fully-stablised 125 mm 50-calibre smoothbore gun with autoloader. Despite the early reports indicating the gun was a licensed copy of the Russian 2A46, it is actually an indigenous design derived from the Chinese 120 mm smoothbore gun technology.
Ammunitions include armour piercing fin stabilised discarding sabot rounds (APFSDS), high explosive anti-tank rounds (HEAT), and high explosive fragmentation (HE-FRAG) projectiles. China has also reportedly manufactured Russian A-11 laser guided anti-tank missile (ATGM) to be fired by the 125 mm gun. In addition, the Chinese have also experimentally developed depleted uranium (DU) rounds for their tanks and it may be available to the Type 98.
The turret of the Type 98
Fire accuracy is attained by the laser rangefinder, wind sensor, ballistic computer, and thermal barrel sleeve. Dual axis stabilisation ensures effective firing on the move. The commander is has six periscopes and a stabilised panoramic sight. Both the commander and gunner have roof-mounted stabilised sights fitted with day/thermal channels, a laser rangefinder and an auto tracker facility. The commander has a display showing the gunner's thermal sight, enabling the commander to fire the main gun.
The Type 98 is also fitted with a compuerised onboard information processing system, which can collect information from vehicle navigation (Inertia/GPS), observation systems and sensors, process it in the computer and display it on the commander's display, giving the ability of real-time command and beyond-vision-range target engaging.
Secondary weapons include a 7.62 mm coaxial machine gun and a 12.7 mm air defence machine gun mounted on the commander's cupola. Each side of the turret has a 76 mm Type 84 five-barrel smoke grenade launchers.
ARMOUR: The turret and hull are of all-welded steel armour construction. A layer of composite armour has been added to the front arc. The armour package is of modular design, enabling damaged sections to be replaced or upgrades installed throughout service life. Explosive reactive armour (ERA) can be fitted if required.
ACTIVE PROTECTION: The Type 98 features an JD-3 integrated laser rangefinder/warning/self-defence device. Unlike contemporary Russian active tank self-defense systems like Drozd, Drozd-2, and Arena, which launch projectiles to disable or "shoot-down" incoming anti-tank missiles and projectiles, the Chinese system apparently uses a high-powered laser to directly attack the enemy weapon's optics and gunner.
JD-3 roof-mounted active laser self-defence weapon (front) and laser warning receiver (back)
The system includes what appears to be a laser warning receiver (LWR - the dome-shaped device on the turret roof behind the commander's position), that warns the crew that their tank is being illuminated by an enemy range-finding or weapon-guidance laser. The turret of the tank can then be traversed to face the direction of the enemy threat, and the laser self-defence weapon (LSDW - the box-shaped device on the turret roof behind the gunner's position), can be employed against the source of the enemy laser.
The procedure of the laser weapon would first use a low-powered beam to locate the optics of the enemy weapon. Once the enemy weapon was located, the power level of the laser would be immediately and dramatically increased. Such an attack would disable the guidance optics of the enemy weapon and/or damage the eyesight of the enemy gunner.
The available photos of the Type 98 have also confirmed that the laser weapon can be elevated to a higher angle than the tank's main gun, indicating that the engagement of attack helicopters is possible. In addition, the laser device could also be used for communications between friend tanks.
PROPULSION: The Type 98 is powered by a liquid cooled, turbocharged 1,200 hp diesel derived from Germany WD396 diesel technology. At its current battle weight of 52 tons, this gives a power-to-weight ratio of about 23 hp/ton.
Night shooting
SPECIFICATIONS
Crew: 3
Weight: 50 tons
Engine: 1,200 hp liquid cooled diesel
Transmission: Mechanical, planetary
Track: Metallic with RMSh, with rubber-tyred road wheels
Suspension: Torsion bar
Radio: Receive/transmit, telephone, laser communications
Dimension: Length: 11.00 m; Height: 2.00 m; Width: 3.40 m
Ground Pressure: N/A
Cruising Range: 450 km, or 600 km with external tanks
Speed: Max road 65 km/h; max off-road 47 km/h; average cross-country 35 km/h; max swim N/A
Fording Depths: 5 m with snorkel
Main Gun: Indigenous 125 mm smoothbore
Rate of Fire: 8 rounds/min
Elevation/Depression: N/A
Auxiliary Weapon: One coaxial 7.62 mm machine gun; one 12.7 mm air-defence machine gun
Fire Control: Laser rangefinder input, onboard computer, wind sensor, and control panel
What does Arjun have for selfdefence. I read somewhere that it's gonna have a lot of Isreali self defence against missles too.
That made no sence to me. 30 Arjuns have been inducted and more are on the way and Arjun MK 2 is being worked on with Isreali help. Isreal is putting in some nice tech. Type 98 was shown in 1999 wasn't it?
Arjun:
Main Battle Tank, Arjun
Main Battle Tank (MBT) Arjun is a multi-laboratory programme of DRDO with CVRDE as the lead Laboratory. It is a state-of-the-art tank with superior fire power, high mobility, and excellent protection. Twelve Mk 1 prototypes of MBT Arjun have been manufactured and their performance tests have provided satisfactory results. Some of the breakthroughs achieved by CVRDE during the development of MBT Arjun are in Engine, Transmission, Hydropneumatic Suspension, Hull and Turret, and Gun Control System.
Salient Features
Fire Power
The superior armour defeating capability of the indigenously developed Fin Stabilized Armour Piercing Discarding Sabot (FSAPDS) ammunition and 120 mm calibre rifled gun give MBT ARJUN an edge over contemporary world tanks. A computer-controlled integrated fire control system incorporating day-cum-night stabilized sighting system guarantees a very high first round hit probability and reduced reaction time to bring effective fire on targets.
The stabilization system for the main armament, slaved to the sighting equipment in elevation and azimuth, with a high and accurate laying speed, allows fire on the move.
The superior fire power of MBT is based on:
Accurate and fast target acquisition capability during day and night and in all types of weather .
Shortest possible reaction time during combat engagements
Ability to accurately engage targets on move
Capability to destroy all possible enemy armour at maximum battle ranges
Excellent first hit probability
Main Armament
The rifled 120 mm ARJUN gun together with the newly developed super velocity ammunition, can defeat any contemporary armour used in tanks. The electro-slag refined gun steel tube is autofrettaged to withstand higher gas pressures. A thermal jacket prevents irregular temperature distribution on to the tube due to the weather influences.
Secondary Armament
A co-axial 7.62 mm machine gun for anti-personnel and a 12.7 mm machine gun for anti-aircraft and ground targets are provided as secondary weapons.
Gunner's Main Sight
Gunner's Main Sight consists of a day-sight, thermal sight, a laser range finder and a stabilized head common to all the three channels. The common sighting head mirror is stabilized in elevation and azimuth. The day- sight provides dual magnification.
The thermal imager provides night vision facility to the gunner and the commander to observe and engage target in total darkness and in the presence of smoke, dust, haze and light camouflage. Integral with the main sight is the laser range finder by which targets can be ranged accurately.
Panoramic Sight for Commander
Commander's panoramic sight enables the commander to effect an all round surveillance in the battlefield without removing his eyes from the sight and without being disturbed by the turret motion. The field of view is stabilized with the help of a two axes rate gyro-mounted on the platform of the head mirror. The sight offers dual magnification.
Ammunition
Two types of ammunition, viz, FSAPDS and HESH have been developed for this armament. The highly lethal
FSAPDS ammunition which is the main battle ammunition of the tank has accounted itself admirably during the trails. In addition, the anti-helicopter round to combat the air threat to armour is also under development.
Mobility
Low ground pressure, high power-to-weight ratio and new design concepts in transmission suspension and
running gear result in highly mobile and agile weapon platform.
The remarkable mobility of MBT which also adds to its protection is the result of:
High performance engine
Robust and effective transmission system particularly flexible hydropneumatic suspension .
Optimized running gear with its high shock energy absorption.
Due to the high power-to-weight ratio and low specific ground pressure, MBT is fast, highly manoeuvrable and extremely mobile to cross the most difficult terrain with ease. High acceleration rapid braking capabilities with excellent steering characteristics make MBT agile in the battlefield. Adequate fuel storage capacity and relatively low fuel consumption allow for an optimal operational range.
An important criterion for the mobility of any AFV is the effective performance of the driver. Excellent vision systems both for day and night provide most effective means of observation in all battlefield conditions. The need to keep the crew's fatigue including that of driver at the minimum level over long periods of continuous operation, have been taken care of.
Protection
All round protection from anti-tank ammunition is achieved by t~e newly developed KANCHAN armour to a degree much higher than available in present generation tanks. The high degree of immunity is achieved by.
The computerised design and simulation
A fabricated turret housing lightweight compact KANCHAN armour
Careful dimensioning of wall through optimal slopes and angles
A low silhouette
Crew Comfort
Ergonometry, using anthropometric data of Indian troops, has been kept in view while designing the fighting and driving compartments to fully exploit the outstanding features of the weapon system. Hydropneumatic suspension provides excellent ride comfort for crew eliminating fatigue even on the extended runs.
Specifications
Dimensions
Overall length {with gun forward) 10.638 m
Overall height {with gun rear) 9.546 m
Overall height {with AD gun mount) 3.03 m(Turret roof: 2.32 m)
Overall width 3.864 m
Combat weight 58.5 tons
Technical Characteristics
Max speed 70 km/hr
Max speed on cross country 40 km/hr
Ground pressure 0.84 kg/sq. cm.
Engine power 1400 HP at 2400 rpm
Engine characteristics V 90° Turbo charged diesel, 10 cylinder water cooled
Power-to-weight ratio 24:1 HP/ton
Gear box 4 fwd +2 rev gears Epicyclic gear train, Torque converter, Mech lockup clutch & hydrodynamic retarder
Steering Double radii, mechancial steering with neutral turn
Suspension Hydrogas
Shallow fording 1.4 m
Vertical obstacle 0.914 m
Trench crossing 2.43 m
Gradient 35 deg
Gun 120 mm rifled
Rate of fire 6-8 rounds per minute
Ammunition 39 rounds (FSAPDS/HESH)
Co-axial machine gun Mag 7.62 mm Tk 715 A
Anti aircraft machine gun HCB 12.7 mm
Fire control system Director type
Gun control system Electro-hydraulic
Night vision Thermal imaging
Ballistic computer Digital
Crew 4 (Cmdr, Gnr, Ldr. Dvr)
Type 98 Main Battle Tank
NAME
PLA designation: Type 98
Manufacturer name: WZ-123
CONTRACTOR: China North Industries Group Corporation (NORINCO)
SERVICE STATUS: A small number in service with the Army for trial and tests. Mass production expected to begin in 2002 to 2004.
PROGRAMME
The Type 98 is the latest derivative of the Type 90 main battle tank (MBT) family. It is also the officially certified version of China's third generation MBT programme, which had undergone development for fifteen years since the mid-1980s. It is understood that the development of the Chinese third generation MBT suffered certain technical difficulties in the early 1990s. The scheduled date of commissioning was postponed several times, until the initial approval certificate of the Type 98 was issued in 1998.
Type 98 is the latest variant of the Type 90 MBT family
The Type 98 was first revealed to the public in the national day parade on 1 Oct 1999. A small number of the initial production model is in service with the Army for initial evaluations and tests. It is expected that the final production model of the Type 98 will join the service before 2004, depending on progress of the final modification work.
The original design target of the Chinese third generation MBT was as a counter to the Soviet T-72, but the changing requirements shifted the development towards a much more sophisticated machine. The later design criteria of the Type 98 was aiming at challenging the U.S. M1A1 Abrams, while certain aspects of the actually performance of the Type 98 is approaching the standard of the M1A2.
It is surprising that China has developed two MBTs, the Type 96 and the Type 98, with similar performance at the same time. Although the Type 96 was regarded as the second generation MBT, while the Type 98 as the third generation MBT, they are comparable in term of general performance and technology. One possible explanation is that the Type 98 will be equipped by the most elite units in a relatively small number, while the Type 96, with less sophisticated technology and therefore cheaper unit price, will replace the bulk of Type 59/69 in current service.
Type 98 in field test
DESIGN FEATURES
The layout of the Type 98 is conventional, with certain influence by the Soviet tank designs. The driver's compartment is at the front, with fighting compartment/turret in the centre, and power pack in the rear. The complete powerpack assembly can be removed in around 30~40 minutes and in field conditions. Suspension is of the conventional torsion bar type and there are six rubber-tyred roadwheels on each side, the drive sprocket at the rear.
To accommodate more equipment and rounds, the Type 98's turret is slightly larger than that of the Type 90, which has resulted in a gap between turret and the hull in the front. This could be a major disadvantage in the battle as the whole turret might be blown off if the gap is hit.
Rear view of the Type 98
In addition, the Type 98 also lacks designs often found on Western MBTs to minimise the damage in the event of penetration by a HEAT projectile. For example, the armour bulkheads to separate the crew compartment from the fuel tanks and rounds, as well as the top panels designed to blow outwards in case of explosion. This could lead to low survivability in modern combat field according to the experience of the 1991 Gulf War.
ARMAMENT: The main armament is a fully-stablised 125 mm 50-calibre smoothbore gun with autoloader. Despite the early reports indicating the gun was a licensed copy of the Russian 2A46, it is actually an indigenous design derived from the Chinese 120 mm smoothbore gun technology.
Ammunitions include armour piercing fin stabilised discarding sabot rounds (APFSDS), high explosive anti-tank rounds (HEAT), and high explosive fragmentation (HE-FRAG) projectiles. China has also reportedly manufactured Russian A-11 laser guided anti-tank missile (ATGM) to be fired by the 125 mm gun. In addition, the Chinese have also experimentally developed depleted uranium (DU) rounds for their tanks and it may be available to the Type 98.
The turret of the Type 98
Fire accuracy is attained by the laser rangefinder, wind sensor, ballistic computer, and thermal barrel sleeve. Dual axis stabilisation ensures effective firing on the move. The commander is has six periscopes and a stabilised panoramic sight. Both the commander and gunner have roof-mounted stabilised sights fitted with day/thermal channels, a laser rangefinder and an auto tracker facility. The commander has a display showing the gunner's thermal sight, enabling the commander to fire the main gun.
The Type 98 is also fitted with a compuerised onboard information processing system, which can collect information from vehicle navigation (Inertia/GPS), observation systems and sensors, process it in the computer and display it on the commander's display, giving the ability of real-time command and beyond-vision-range target engaging.
Secondary weapons include a 7.62 mm coaxial machine gun and a 12.7 mm air defence machine gun mounted on the commander's cupola. Each side of the turret has a 76 mm Type 84 five-barrel smoke grenade launchers.
ARMOUR: The turret and hull are of all-welded steel armour construction. A layer of composite armour has been added to the front arc. The armour package is of modular design, enabling damaged sections to be replaced or upgrades installed throughout service life. Explosive reactive armour (ERA) can be fitted if required.
ACTIVE PROTECTION: The Type 98 features an JD-3 integrated laser rangefinder/warning/self-defence device. Unlike contemporary Russian active tank self-defense systems like Drozd, Drozd-2, and Arena, which launch projectiles to disable or "shoot-down" incoming anti-tank missiles and projectiles, the Chinese system apparently uses a high-powered laser to directly attack the enemy weapon's optics and gunner.
JD-3 roof-mounted active laser self-defence weapon (front) and laser warning receiver (back)
The system includes what appears to be a laser warning receiver (LWR - the dome-shaped device on the turret roof behind the commander's position), that warns the crew that their tank is being illuminated by an enemy range-finding or weapon-guidance laser. The turret of the tank can then be traversed to face the direction of the enemy threat, and the laser self-defence weapon (LSDW - the box-shaped device on the turret roof behind the gunner's position), can be employed against the source of the enemy laser.
The procedure of the laser weapon would first use a low-powered beam to locate the optics of the enemy weapon. Once the enemy weapon was located, the power level of the laser would be immediately and dramatically increased. Such an attack would disable the guidance optics of the enemy weapon and/or damage the eyesight of the enemy gunner.
The available photos of the Type 98 have also confirmed that the laser weapon can be elevated to a higher angle than the tank's main gun, indicating that the engagement of attack helicopters is possible. In addition, the laser device could also be used for communications between friend tanks.
PROPULSION: The Type 98 is powered by a liquid cooled, turbocharged 1,200 hp diesel derived from Germany WD396 diesel technology. At its current battle weight of 52 tons, this gives a power-to-weight ratio of about 23 hp/ton.
Night shooting
SPECIFICATIONS
Crew: 3
Weight: 50 tons
Engine: 1,200 hp liquid cooled diesel
Transmission: Mechanical, planetary
Track: Metallic with RMSh, with rubber-tyred road wheels
Suspension: Torsion bar
Radio: Receive/transmit, telephone, laser communications
Dimension: Length: 11.00 m; Height: 2.00 m; Width: 3.40 m
Ground Pressure: N/A
Cruising Range: 450 km, or 600 km with external tanks
Speed: Max road 65 km/h; max off-road 47 km/h; average cross-country 35 km/h; max swim N/A
Fording Depths: 5 m with snorkel
Main Gun: Indigenous 125 mm smoothbore
Rate of Fire: 8 rounds/min
Elevation/Depression: N/A
Auxiliary Weapon: One coaxial 7.62 mm machine gun; one 12.7 mm air-defence machine gun
Fire Control: Laser rangefinder input, onboard computer, wind sensor, and control panel
What does Arjun have for selfdefence. I read somewhere that it's gonna have a lot of Isreali self defence against missles too.
all i can tell you is what I know of the project. on the basis of that info, the Arjun project has some considersable problems to contend with. I'm not saying that its unachievable in the long run, but in the present circumstances more effort is going to go to other projects that are less complicated and which involve more use of existing known technologies and existing manufacturing capability.
"blue sky" solutions are off with the Arjun
"blue sky" solutions are off with the Arjun
yutong chen
New Member
The Arjun had to repair its engine several times during the trial. The Type 98 get GPS gudiance. <It is a state-of-the-art tank with superior fire power, high mobility, and excellent protection> Its probably to Indian standard.
dabrownguy
New Member
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #17
My friends the Arjun is a hybrid between western and soviet tanks, with western tech. Merkava mbt cost 2.6 million and dystroy dosions of soviet tanks! Arjun cost 6 million and with isreali help MK2 is better than type96! Type 98 is 10 tons lighter than Arjun and that means Type 98 has less armor. Accuracy and range can't be better because it had isreali help. Arjun's range i believe is 4.6 km! i think thats twice as much as type 98's smooth bore gun. non the less type 98 is a great tank with many googies like gps! but on the battle field Arjun can penatrate any nato armor at 2km distance at a probabibilty of 100% meaning soviet/chinese/pakistabi armor will be dystroyed at 3 km(this is with AFSDS rounds). gf0012 what you are talking about are the old problems back in 97-98 but Arjun MK2 is perfect! I don't know if this is true or not but I have read on a another forum that the chinese have regarded the type 98 as junk. Type 96 will enter production because type 96 was not a good value for a dollar. 120 smooth bore rifles are the best turrets around and accurate! btw its easy to fit a tank with gps, just like the palm pads.
dabrownguy
New Member
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #18
My mistake its not smooth bore rifle but just rifle.
The best proven armour in the world is Chobham 3. No tanks have managed to kill a challenger 2, even when they were fired upon by Abrams in a "blue on blue"
The longest tank kill in the world is via a Chally 2 at 5.1k's
On record: An M1a2 killed 2 T72's at once. the AP went through one tank and killed the second to the rear of it.
There is NO empirical evidence supporting chinese, russian or "martian" tanks that have stronger armour and longer range weapons.
The RHA armour on Leo A5's and A6's is considered to be better than an M1a2 but less than a Chally 2.
Its ok to be proud of your countries equipment, but the empirical evidence stands as absolute "proof of life" until proven otherwise.
IF the Arjun is based on Chinese AFV parameters, then it is designed to deliver max ordinance weight at sacrifice to speed and armour. That is current Chinese doctrine, Russian doctrine has been about armour and firepower in a disposable unit, they are built to be rugged and survivable, but less emphasis on "creature comforts". The Arjun appears to be a hybrid concept attempting to embrace the characteristics of british tanks like the chieftain and russian tanks like the t70/80 series. hence, already there is a doctrinal mismatch purely based on the facts that the design parameters for both models are different. The arjun is a hybrid - as is pakistans.
The Chinese the Russians and the French underwent their own armoured RMA after seeing what the US and the British did to russian tanks in GW2. They are good solid tanks, but they are a generation behind. in their own theatre, they are perfect for the expected opfor, and I would assume that Indian and Pakistani tanks are also initially designed along those operation requirements.
BUT to say that they are world killing in class is slightly enthusiastic and somewhat intemperant. That does not detract from their obvious capabilities.
The longest tank kill in the world is via a Chally 2 at 5.1k's
On record: An M1a2 killed 2 T72's at once. the AP went through one tank and killed the second to the rear of it.
There is NO empirical evidence supporting chinese, russian or "martian" tanks that have stronger armour and longer range weapons.
The RHA armour on Leo A5's and A6's is considered to be better than an M1a2 but less than a Chally 2.
Its ok to be proud of your countries equipment, but the empirical evidence stands as absolute "proof of life" until proven otherwise.
IF the Arjun is based on Chinese AFV parameters, then it is designed to deliver max ordinance weight at sacrifice to speed and armour. That is current Chinese doctrine, Russian doctrine has been about armour and firepower in a disposable unit, they are built to be rugged and survivable, but less emphasis on "creature comforts". The Arjun appears to be a hybrid concept attempting to embrace the characteristics of british tanks like the chieftain and russian tanks like the t70/80 series. hence, already there is a doctrinal mismatch purely based on the facts that the design parameters for both models are different. The arjun is a hybrid - as is pakistans.
The Chinese the Russians and the French underwent their own armoured RMA after seeing what the US and the British did to russian tanks in GW2. They are good solid tanks, but they are a generation behind. in their own theatre, they are perfect for the expected opfor, and I would assume that Indian and Pakistani tanks are also initially designed along those operation requirements.
BUT to say that they are world killing in class is slightly enthusiastic and somewhat intemperant. That does not detract from their obvious capabilities.
yutong chen
New Member
dabrownguy,
<Type 98 is 10 tons lighter than Arjun and that means Type 98 has less armor>
Type 98's turret is half the size of Arjun.
<Arjun's range i believe is 4.6 km! i think thats twice as much as type 98's smooth bore gun>
Type 98's range is 8 km which is twice the range of Arjun.
<but on the battle field Arjun can penatrate any nato armor at 2km distance at a probabibilty of 100% meaning soviet/chinese/pakistabi armor will be dystroyed at 3 km(this is with AFSDS rounds)>
By the time Arjun gets in range, it's FCS will be messed up by Type 98's Active Defense, so Arjun won't even get a chance to fire.
<non the less type 98 is a great tank with many googies like gps>
<Type 96 will enter production because type 96 was not a good value for a dollar>
Type 98 didn't enter, because there is a newer version, maybe you should take a look at Type 98G.
<120 smooth bore rifles are the best turrets around and accurate! btw its easy to fit a tank with gps>
120 smooth bore rifles only proved superior against Iraqi tanks. The best Iraq have is T-72, which is a medium tank. Beside, the Iraqis didn't even try to resist. Iraqis probably broke or damaged the tank before going to battle.
<Type 98 is 10 tons lighter than Arjun and that means Type 98 has less armor>
Type 98's turret is half the size of Arjun.
<Arjun's range i believe is 4.6 km! i think thats twice as much as type 98's smooth bore gun>
Type 98's range is 8 km which is twice the range of Arjun.
<but on the battle field Arjun can penatrate any nato armor at 2km distance at a probabibilty of 100% meaning soviet/chinese/pakistabi armor will be dystroyed at 3 km(this is with AFSDS rounds)>
By the time Arjun gets in range, it's FCS will be messed up by Type 98's Active Defense, so Arjun won't even get a chance to fire.
<non the less type 98 is a great tank with many googies like gps>
<Type 96 will enter production because type 96 was not a good value for a dollar>
Type 98 didn't enter, because there is a newer version, maybe you should take a look at Type 98G.
<120 smooth bore rifles are the best turrets around and accurate! btw its easy to fit a tank with gps>
120 smooth bore rifles only proved superior against Iraqi tanks. The best Iraq have is T-72, which is a medium tank. Beside, the Iraqis didn't even try to resist. Iraqis probably broke or damaged the tank before going to battle.
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