New Aussie Air to air Refuellers.

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EADS/QANTAS WINS $2 BILLION AIR-TO-AIR REFUELLING Competition

The Military Transport Division of the European Aeronautic Defence and Space Company (EADS) teamed with Qantas Defence Services has been selected as the preferred tenderer for the Royal Australian Air Force’s fleet of new air-to-air refuelling aircraft, Defence Minister Robert Hill announced today.

Senator Hill said the government had selected the EADS A330 Multi-Role Tanker Transport Aircraft to replace the RAAF’s ageing Boeing 707 aircraft in an approximate $2 billion project.

"The five new aircraft will be capable of refuelling F/A-18, F-111, Airborne Early Warning and Control and Joint Strike Fighter aircraft," Senator Hill said.

"They will also have a significant strategic air lift capacity when not engaged in aerial refuelling tasks, including the ability to carry 293 passengers and a significant amount of cargo.

"The acquisition of an additional aircraft will provide a big boost to operational capabilities – giving the RAAF a wider range of activities in one area of operations while also supporting refuelling and transport activities in a second area."

"Our aircraft, for example, would enable non stop deployment of six F/A-18s from Darwin to Butterworth in Malaysia, while carrying 43 tonnes of support equipment and stores."

Senator Hill said that recent experiences had showed the vital importance of this type of aircraft as a force multiplier during combat operations. This was borne out by the extremely valuable work done by the RAAF 707 tankers over Afghanistan during the War on Terror, and by the high demand for aerial refuelling during the recent Iraqi Freedom operations.

Contract negotiations will now commence with EADS for the purchase of five aircraft.

The basic aircraft will be constructed in Europe, with four of the five having refuelling modifications installed and integrated by Qantas in Brisbane. Qantas Defence Services will also conduct through life support of the aircraft in Australia.

"Australian industry will also be involved in the design of the refuelling system, project management and production of aircraft components and engine parts for export," Senator Hill said.

"Over the life of the program, the value of the work to be undertaken by Australian industry and the associated technology to be transferred to Australia exceeds $500 million."

The project will be a significant defence industry boost for Australia.

Senator Hill said that all the aircraft would be fitted with an Electronic Warfare Self Protection suite for defence against shoulder fired surface to air missiles. Additionally, the EADS tender package includes a hospital bed kit for emergency medical evacuations and advanced simulators for crew training.

Contract signature is expected later this year, with the aircraft planned to enter service from 2007.

Good. This is a much better aircraft than the KC-767 Boeing was trying to flog off. It has much better range and fuel offload capability than the 767 and greater passenger and cargo capacity as well... Here's some pics:










 
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Aussie Digger

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I bet Boeing will be pi*sed about this decision though. The RAAF is one of those "non major power" air forces, that are used as a benchmark for defence purchases. The RAAF is renowned for it's quality (if not it's size...) And stands as one of the most professional air forces in the world today. Boeing IMHO would have played upon the validation in their aircraft that the RAAF would have provided, had they chosen the KC -767. Cheers.
 

gf0012-aust

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Aussie Digger said:
I bet Boeing will be pi*sed about this decision though. The RAAF is one of those "non major power" air forces, that are used as a benchmark for defence purchases. The RAAF is renowned for it's quality (if not it's size...) And stands as one of the most professional air forces in the world today. Boeing IMHO would have played upon the validation in their aircraft that the RAAF would have provided, had they chosen the KC -767. Cheers.
IIRC the expression is a "purchasing influencer". It's why Sukhoi got pi$$ed off with us when we rejected their Su-3X fighter family offer. They saw an opportunity that we might influence Singapore (who is also classified as a PI)

Sukhoi even tried to offer partnering opportunities in developing a long range standoff weapon for the F-111's that could be commonly used by the Hornets and the Sukhoi. Which would have been pretty interesting considering the fact that we wouldn't have passed on source codes to them. :)

They must be pretty cranky out at RAAF "Boeing" at the moment.
 
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Aussie Digger

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You mean RAAF Amberley, where the AAR's will be based?
 

gf0012-aust

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Aussie Digger said:
You mean RAAF Amberley, where the AAR's will be based?
Yep, it's nickname is RAAF Boeing as they set up shop on the base to look after the flippers. (I haven't used the common nickname as its politically incorrect on this forum to use such descriptors)
 
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Whilst this project is good news, it's hardly satisfactory for the RAAF's Force Structure as a whole. Only 4 aircraft will actually be fitted with AAR systems. The 5th will be used in the transport role and be "fitted for but not with" the AAR role, I guess. I think to even begin to adequately support the Air Combat Group, around double this number of AAR's would be required, though Dr Carlo KOPP has stated we require about 18!!! He doesn't live in a wrold that actually has to worry about finances though...
 

umair

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:eek
Nice!,Any ideas for tripple point tanking on these Airbuses?
Boeing must be pissed off BAD :D
Btw these birds new right?
Just a question guys(off topic) but what would u think of a converted A300 in this role?
 

adsH

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umair said:
:eek
Nice!,Any ideas for tripple point tanking on these Airbuses?
Boeing must be pissed off BAD :D
Btw these birds new right?
Just a question guys(off topic) but what would u think of a converted A300 in this role?
A300 is that the massive over sixed luxry AC rite if that's what ur onn about i was thinking of that too lol but i think the A300 AC might have a problem getting up in air when its carrying a full load of GOD only knows how much feul!! I persoanally think SU are not that great i don't know why!! they are just too bigg and i don't like the fact that there engine life are too short(a modern AF can not possibly envision such high maintenance cost (AF's are trying to become economical)). could some one tell me if the British have these Refulers or are they planning to i saw Tornados and EF2000 refueling in the PIc!!!
 

umair

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Typo!I was talking about the Airbuses which PIA is retiring and PAF acquiring(refurbished of course).
 

adsH

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umair said:
Typo!I was talking about the Airbuses which PIA is retiring and PAF acquiring(refurbished of course).
Oh rite sorry about that !! are they(PAF) Buying those AB how old are the A 300.
 

adsH

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persoannly i like the Boeing refueler but according to my limited knowledge and the pictures i have seen the Beoing refueler has a special refuel probe that come out of the Cargo hatch from the rear and i think it can only refuel one AC at a time. but i bet its refule time is alot faster than those Suspended Probes. Is it possible to have an automated Control software that would manage the flight spead and positions on teh AC whne they are refueling ie they could approach a refuler and demand to be refueled and then the refuler would then take control of the AC and move it inn precisely matching the spead and position of the refuler!!
 

Roger Smith

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It is necessary for major air forces of the world to have air refuelling capability. India (IAF) was the last to join the club and now it is Australia turn. :smokingc:
 

adsH

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Roger Smith said:
It is necessary for major air forces of the world to have air refuelling capability. India (IAF) was the last to join the club and now it is Australia turn. :smokingc:
Hey!! Roger Lets not corner out PAF they did say they will add AirRefule capability so i would take them on there word they haven't lied till now!!!
 

gf0012-aust

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Roger Smith said:
It is necessary for major air forces of the world to have air refuelling capability. India (IAF) was the last to join the club and now it is Australia turn. :smokingc:

Roger, the RAAF has had air refuelers for nearly 20 years. These are replacement aircraft - not a new injection of capability onto the fleet.
 
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These aircraft will be new build Airbus A330's. They will then be flown to Australia and fitted out with their AAR equipment and their Electronic Warfare Self Protection systems. They are capable of refuelling 3 aircraft at a time with a centreline "boom" refuelling installation and wing-tip "drogue" refuelling pods. They will provide a good (if limited) capability for the RAAF. Those Tornado's in the photo's are German. The photo's are from an airshow last year when Airbus was promoting a similar aircraft to Great Britain and other countries for their AAR requirements. Cheers.
 

umair

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So the RAAF version will have tripple point tanking ability.The boom for the Ardvarks, probe drouge for the Hornets.And either for the JSF.
 

gf0012-aust

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umair said:
So the RAAF version will have tripple point tanking ability.The boom for the Ardvarks, probe drouge for the Hornets.And either for the JSF.
It also means that we can refuel all of the AAR capable aircraft that our allies work with, Singapore, Malaysia, Japan, US. UK, Sth Korea, Thailand, Canada etc... IIRC we refueled Kuwaits FA-18's in exercises as well.


Probe and drogue and boom means that we can also work in with USN/USMC and USAF aircraft (as they "both" use different systems)

IIRC the JSF is boom fed. If we get the F-22b at some stage then we are already in a position to refuel it as well. There has been a "re-awakening" of the opportunity for the RAAF to consider the FB-22/F-22B to replace the F-111's. They'd need to drive thr price down for us though - we could buy 4 JSF's for 1 x F-22. I would imagine that Boeing will be trying to get us in the queue again now that they've lost the tanker deal.
 
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That's good news gf. A fleet of 30 or so F-22B's and 50 or so JSF's would be much more capable than 100 JSF's. We wouldn't have as much drama with pilot numbers either. Anyway getting back on topic, do you think these new AAR's will be flown by RAAF reserve pilots? I really don't see why they couldn't apart from maybe 1 or 2 "high readiness" refuellers. I'm sure they're are sufficient ex-RAAF pilots flying for QANTAS now who will be flying A330's anyway. Why employ full-time pilots for these aircraft when it's not (IMHO) necessary?
 

gf0012-aust

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Aussie Digger said:
That's good news gf. A fleet of 30 or so F-22B's and 50 or so JSF's would be much more capable than 100 JSF's. We wouldn't have as much drama with pilot numbers either. Anyway getting back on topic, do you think these new AAR's will be flown by RAAF reserve pilots? I really don't see why they couldn't apart from maybe 1 or 2 "high readiness" refuellers. I'm sure they're are sufficient ex-RAAF pilots flying for QANTAS now who will be flying A330's anyway. Why employ full-time pilots for these aircraft when it's not (IMHO) necessary?
I think the F-22B issue will be a long way out, but at least it's not thrown out. Cost will be the killer though, and whether everyone agrees that we need that kind of air superiority.

I'm all for a reserve system (similar to the US ANG concept) so that we can keep civilian jet pilots combat active. It would save on the issue of attrition as well
 
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