Indonesian troops sink Thai fishing boat in air, sea battle

[gf0012-aust]

Indonesia's military said Wednesday it sank a Thai fishing boat and damaged another in an air and sea battle against illegal fishermen.

Troops are searching the waters off the west coast of Aceh province after several other boats escaped, Lieutenant Colonel Beta Insan from the Aceh military headquarters said.

The clash began after local fishermen reported that 17 Thai boats were fishing off Lhok Bubon in Samatiga district.

The military deployed two helicopters and two speedboats to the area and soldiers boarded local fishing boats to assist the operation.

"While the fleet was being taken towards the port, shots were fired from one of the boats. The troops immediately began to fire back and one of the boats was sunk in a one-hour exchange of fire," Lieutenant Colonel Insan said.

He said one of the helicopters also fired a rocket which hit a trawler but did not sink it.

The ship was seen leaving the scene, towed by another boat.

One trawler was towed to the port of Meulaboh late on Tuesday evening but no one was found on board, Lieutenant Colonel Insan said.

"We are searching the waters off the coast as well as the coastline for any sign of the Thai fishermen," he said.

Aceh is under martial law while troops battle separatist rebels.

All foreign shipping near the province is banned.

Indonesia has mounted operations against illegal foreign fishermen in several parts of the archipelago, sinking a number of boats.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/s1063029.htm

 

[Winter]

The Indonesian military launching a full maritime strike with air support on a couple fishing boats resulting in an hour-long exchange of fire in the middle of a counter-insurgency warzone? Boy, those fishermen... :roll

 

[gf0012-aust]

The Indonesian military launching a full maritime strike with air support on a couple fishing boats resulting in an hour-long exchange of fire in the middle of a counter-insurgency warzone? Boy, those fishermen... :roll

I guess a few hungry fishermen armed with shotguns must be a bit of a match up for the Indon marines and airforce.

I think if i was the Indon area commander I'd be a tad embarassed - and they didn't even sieze the vessels.... :help

 

[Michael Ravi]

The Indonesians obviously didn't expect the fishermen to be armed to the teeth with so much ammo that they could shoot for about an hour.
Obviously two speed boats weren't enough for 17 boats with armed occupants.

 

[gf0012-aust]

The Indonesians obviously didn't expect the fishermen to be armed to the teeth with so much ammo that they could shoot for about an hour.
Obviously two speed boats weren't enough for 17 boats with armed occupants.

Thats true, but it shows a complete tactical disconnect on the part of the Indon Area commander.

They also had access to helos and they have more than speedboats based in Aceh.

Aceh has approx 2500 troops, plus marines, plus air and substantial naval assets in place. They are there to control the population and stop weapons supplies (Aceh wants to separate from Indonesia and have autonomy)

Ipso facto - the Indon commander either made a few tactical mistakes - or had very incompetent players in his team.

 

[Michael Ravi]

That's true. Since it's stated that the gunfight went on for more than an hour, then I feel that the commander was incompetent in not calling for any additional fire support.
By the way I have heard about lots of piracy in that region of the world. Is it possible that pirates might be posing as fishermen and when confronted started a gunfight??

 

[Aussie Digger]

Possibly could be pirates, but at best they could only be armed with small arms or possibly heavy machine guns. Anything bigger would have been observed prior to the battle commencing. It does seem strange that the rocket armed helicopters (did they carry any other weapons, gun pods etc?) could not have destroyed one or two of the boats in quick succession... Weapons fired from elevation generally have a range advantage against surface weapons... It's also been my observations that insurgents generally flee when faced with the prospect of imminent death. That these persons didn't shows that they weren't exactly overwhelmed by the fire brought against them. Perhaps the Indonesians were reluctant to "open up" on the "fisherman". A very strange incident indeed.

 

[Winter]

Possibly could be pirates, but at best they could only be armed with small arms or possibly heavy machine guns. Anything bigger would have been observed prior to the battle commencing. It does seem strange that the rocket armed helicopters (did they carry any other weapons, gun pods etc?) could not have destroyed one or two of the boats in quick succession... Weapons fired from elevation generally have a range advantage against surface weapons... It's also been my observations that insurgents generally flee when faced with the prospect of imminent death. That these persons didn't shows that they weren't exactly overwhelmed by the fire brought against them. Perhaps the Indonesians were reluctant to "open up" on the "fisherman". A very strange incident indeed.

Fleeing? I see your point, but remember, how is a fleet of fishing trawlers going to race Indo choppers and speedboats? What they did was fight it out, drag the confrontation and eventually just slipped away...

Which I agree is precisely the opposite of what I would expect...But it worked.

 

[Aussie Digger]

Well, if they were insurgents and had some sort of military training they probably would have "bombshelled", ie all boats take off in a different direction at the same time. 17 separate targets would have been fairly diffcult for 2 speedboats and 2 choppers to look after at once. Of course if they weren't they still might have tried to get away in a much less organised fashion...

 

[gf0012-aust]

The interesting thing will be whether these taiwanese "fishing boats" come back gunned up for self defence reasons next time.

I wonder how far off off international waters they were.. - and if they were.

I don't think Indonesia would have tried this if they were Chinese (as in mainland).

Makes the spratleys situation look v interesting.

 

[Aussie Digger]

Maybe South East Asia could be the next battle ground? Hope our FA-18 upgrades including JASSM and FFG, ANZAC and Collins upgrades are completed before this happens if we get involved. Things could be embarassing otherwise...

 

[gf0012-aust]

AD, I'll post a separate thread in the Aviation section on the Aussie Hornet upgrades and why we don't "fear" the future generations of SU-27's, Su-3x-nn's.

The ESSM upgrades to the ANZACs is already in train, and the Collins are also capable of being loaded out with "other" weaps opportunities.

I can't see us being embarrassed.

 

[Red aRRow]

Maybe South East Asia could be the next battle ground? Hope our FA-18 upgrades including JASSM and FFG, ANZAC and Collins upgrades are completed before this happens if we get involved. Things could be embarassing otherwise...

I don't know what logic AD used to jump to this conclusion.
It was just a couple of armed fishermen (or possibly pirates). Doesn't mean there will be a full scale war man!

 

[gf0012-aust]

Maybe South East Asia could be the next battle ground? Hope our FA-18 upgrades including JASSM and FFG, ANZAC and Collins upgrades are completed before this happens if we get involved. Things could be embarassing otherwise...

I don't know what logic AD used to jump to this conclusion.
It was just a couple of armed fishermen (or possibly pirates). Doesn't mean there will be a full scale war man!

I think he might be referring to some earlier discussions we have had about the Spratleys being the next likely place for a regional "brew up".

After all, 5 nations have military presences in place, and all are stating that its sovereign territory. Sooner or later, someone will step over the line there.

 

[Aussie Digger]

This is probably rightfully discussed in another forum, but several countries including China, Indonesia and Malaysia have made territorial claims for a chain of Islands known as the Spratley's, mainly due to the suspected deposits of large quantities of oil. What I was referring to was Australia being dragged into a war over these Islands due to our responsibilities under the Five Power Defence agreement, (ie: supporting Malaysia if they became involved in a war). My post about the upgrades is still relevant though. The ANZAC's have an extremely limited self defence and offensive capability and their upgrade program hasn't even been decided on yet... The FFG's are better and the 1st ship has started it' upgrade but it's going to take a while for the whole class to be ready. The Collins are still years away from full operational capability, despite the navies announcement the other day and the FA-18's still lack a modern capable EWSP system and some weapon systems, despite acknowledgement of these limitations by the Government... For all the talk of "high end" warfighting systems, we still have large gaps to fill before it becomes more than just talk...

 

[gf0012-aust]

Without going into too much detail, the Collins are autonomous units and are able to prioritise and strike multiple targets in sequence. They are able to concurrently acquire and deliver a solution for double digit threats.

The principle issue within the next three years is one of long range strike, and that means the purchase of stand off weapons, and long range anti-shipping in sufficient numbers.

If you look at the certification for the HUG-BUGs, the AP-3C's and the Hawks, it is less of a concern once the weaps are in storage. Australian air assets are data linked to the principle combatants and to the flagship. There is a degree of network control for force projection that isn't available to anyone else in the region (including singapore)

We're at the 10'o clock mark.

 

[umair]

Ahem I guess that Shamayel does not know that the Spratleys are the Kashmir of S.E Asia. :roll

 

[Awang se]

I guess the Acheh separatist probably have the Indonesian Militarymen tied up. I do heard a story of major battles being fought between the two. Indonesia currently sealed the entire region and it is almost impossible for information to come out except from the Army press release.