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Juan Carlos / Canberra Class LHD

This is a discussion on Juan Carlos / Canberra Class LHD within the Navy & Maritime forum, part of the Global Defense & Military category; Originally Posted by RobWilliams That is if they want the F35B. Last I heard was some discussions with Spain about ...


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Old March 5th, 2013   #16
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That is if they want the F35B. Last I heard was some discussions with Spain about it in '08.

Although to be honest, how the current financial climate is in Spain I wouldn't like to comment about the realistic possibility of when an actual purchase will come about.

Trouble with the JC1 for me is that the ski jump is integral to the design, so it'd probably be nastily expensive to get it changed. You'd easily get another helo spot on the deck if she was flat. So for Turkey's purposes, that's a slot sacrificed to pretty much bail out an ally (i.e Italy/RN/USMC) if they got into trouble with one of their F35B's

I like the design of the ship, but that'd drive me up the wall if I had to give up a slot for the sake of a design requirement for an aircraft you've no intention of operating at all.

All that is based on the assumption that Turkey isn't getting B's.
JC1 and the Canberra's still have 6 spots for choppers even with the jump don't forget, so for gaining 1 extra spot for a chopper with removing the jump does it gain you that much for the exspence. but then you also loose the option of not operating all the time but being able to launch or land fix wing aircraft if you had too at a push. I bet the top of the LHD looks a crap load more inviting to make an emergency landing on with the ability of taking off once fixed better than ditching in the ocean haha. I suppose if these ships are operating amongst coalition forces this could be a reality or a possibility in the future if required?
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Old March 5th, 2013   #17
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The ship was at a point where it would either be SLEP'ed or decommed. They choose to decom her for economic reasons.

Here are some pictures from her fairwell cruise.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-G7Ur5fpRIz...JAN%2B2013.jpg


http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-BEiC7xLvRL...JAN%2B2013.jpg

I've seen her in Rota, Spain a couple times, good looking ship, a pity she wasn't modernized. It is also nice to see non-nuetered Perries.
I remember I think on this board that the discussion on making PdA F35 capable would be quite significant. Bringing up another important discussion on whether this was a marginal capability rather the full capability of the Harrier on PdA.
agree a pretty design and well thought out for the tonnage apart from perhaps a too shallow ski jump
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Old March 5th, 2013   #18
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Looking at those pics you really get a feel for how large the JC1 is, she litterally dwarfs the Aircraft carrier in size.
While the JC1 is a big ship the Príncipe de Asturias was pretty much the smallest and cheapest effective "Harrier Carrier" produced. It was a direct replacement for a WW2 vintage escort carrier and it has about the same dimensions.
There was not much in the way of engineering redundancy and overall it is a very compact design.
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Old March 5th, 2013   #19
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JC1 and the Canberra's still have 6 spots for choppers even with the jump don't forget, so for gaining 1 extra spot for a chopper with removing the jump does it gain you that much for the exspence. but then you also loose the option of not operating all the time but being able to launch or land fix wing aircraft if you had too at a push. I bet the top of the LHD looks a crap load more inviting to make an emergency landing on with the ability of taking off once fixed better than ditching in the ocean haha. I suppose if these ships are operating amongst coalition forces this could be a reality or a possibility in the future if required?
It all depends on what the military using the ship requires. The USN and the Marines looked at installing ski jumps on the Tarawa class but came to the conclusion that it wasn't worth giving up the helo spot for what was very much a secondary capability.
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Old March 5th, 2013   #20
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It all depends on what the military using the ship requires. The USN and the Marines looked at installing ski jumps on the Tarawa class but came to the conclusion that it wasn't worth giving up the helo spot for what was very much a secondary capability.
That's a valid point but I suppose they have that luxury when your operating LHD's twice the size and weight of everyone else in the world? but as you say it all depends how important your choppers are to what you are trying to use your lhd for? 1 extra chopper can land a lot of extra men on the beach at the same time.
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Old March 5th, 2013   #21
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That's a valid point but I suppose they have that luxury when your operating LHD's twice the size and weight of everyone else in the world? but as you say it all depends how important your choppers are to what you are trying to use your lhd for? 1 extra chopper can land a lot of extra men on the beach at the same time.
While I do get your point, I really would have trouble seeing a LHD in full flight with all 6 helo spots operating at once and the air traffic guys even being able to juggle a 7th slot if it were there. That decks going to be pretty damn hectic at the 6th slot alone and even with an opening for a 7th there's just only so much you can do at once really. Also nothing to say you cant have other Helo's ready to take off as the others hit the air, just move another couple into position from the side of the deck and you can have the full air component in the sky before long. The ski jump for my mind isn't a silly move, it just leaves that small opening of capability for "what ifs" in the future. US or UK F-35 cross decking in a tense situation isn't too silly a prospect particularly if resources get stretched and we are part of a coalition that's making a lot of moves fast and needs flexibility in a hurry.

As a very broad comment I'm overall very happy with the Australian investment in these 2 LHD's. They should provide a hell of a lot of capability and I can see them being actually used a lot more then say a traditional Aircraft carrier (like the old HMAS Melbourne etc). Probably cost a lot less to run and maintain too I imagine.
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Old March 7th, 2013   #22
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Looking at those pics you really get a feel for how large the JC1 is, she litterally dwarfs the Aircraft carrier in size.
I drive past the HMAS Canberra LHD at Williamstown eveyrday and I can tell you it also looks massive compared to some of the cruise ships in the bay.
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Old March 7th, 2013   #23
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I drive past the HMAS Canberra LHD at Williamstown eveyrday and I can tell you it also looks massive compared to some of the cruise ships in the bay.
If you ever get the chance I'd love to see some pics of how she is looking at present. I beleive based on recent press releases she is looking pretty smart!
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Old March 7th, 2013   #24
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If you ever get the chance I'd love to see some pics of how she is looking at present. I beleive based on recent press releases she is looking pretty smart!
These are not mine. You really get a great shot coming over the Westgate bridge from west to east however you can't stop any get any pics.

End of December 2012
https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8495/...98123d73_k.jpg
https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8359/...6a2f34ed_k.jpg
https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8504/...660be545_k.jpg
https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8495/...97e55dde_k.jpg
https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8215/...b6f12079_k.jpg
https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8501/...434c4395_k.jpg
https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8075/...379bc82d_k.jpg
https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8220/...3732d57b_k.jpg

End of February 2013
http://i.imgur.com/t28nCTQ.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/nkrfR4t.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/kOOIA07.jpg
http://images.defence.gov.au/20130213ran8097539_105.jpg
http://images.defence.gov.au/20130213ran8097539_075.jpg


http://www.aviationweek.com/media/im...BAESystems.jpg


These are not my pics nor do I own or have any rights to them

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Old March 7th, 2013   #25
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Thanx for posting random.
She is looking really good.Those cranes look small next to her.
Can not wait to see her in Sydney Harbour ,she is very impressive
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Old March 7th, 2013   #26
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Thanks Random!

... I must admit when I hit this pic - http://i.imgur.com/nkrfR4t.jpg - I kinda got hit with a real feeling of national pride. Just something about looking at that ship that makes you want to stand tall as an aussie.
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Old March 8th, 2013   #27
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Thanks Random!

... I must admit when I hit this pic - http://i.imgur.com/nkrfR4t.jpg - I kinda got hit with a real feeling of national pride. Just something about looking at that ship that makes you want to stand tall as an aussie.
I would have a bigger feeling of National Pride if we'd have built her here!
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Old March 8th, 2013   #28
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To be honest (and this will probably enrage a few!) in real life it really does have that aircraft carrier feel about it, the pictures don't give justice to its actually size either.
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Old March 8th, 2013   #29
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I would have a bigger feeling of National Pride if we'd have built her here!
Dont you worry, we are very proud of building them for you , plus you are building the AWD by yourselves and believe it or not thats a more complicated piece of machinery, the Canberra is just big.
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Old March 9th, 2013   #30
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Dont you worry, we are very proud of building them for you , plus you are building the AWD by yourselves and believe it or not thats a more complicated piece of machinery, the Canberra is just big.
Too true, many think large equates to cost, complexity and difficulty where ships are concerned. An analogy could be the LHDs are C-17s and the AWDs are F-35s supported by Wedgetails and Growlers.
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