Go Back   DefenceTalk Forum - Military & Defense Forums > Global Defense & Military > Navy & Maritime

Defense News
Land, Air & Naval Forces






Military Photos
Latest Military Pictures
Defense Reports
Aerospace & Defence


Indonesia: 'green water navy'

This is a discussion on Indonesia: 'green water navy' within the Navy & Maritime forum, part of the Global Defense & Military category; Originally Posted by Ananda Kongsberg system for Indonesian Subs (from DEFESA Global): DEFESA Global Previously the two existing Type 209 ...


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 14 votes, 4.07 average.
Old December 4th, 2012   #496
Defense Enthusiast
Lieutenant
No Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 523
Threads:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ananda View Post
Kongsberg system for Indonesian Subs (from DEFESA Global): DEFESA Global



Previously the two existing Type 209 which being upgraded in South Korea also used Kongsberg as their combat management system. It's logical the three type 209 upgrade that being build in South Korea shares communality with the upgraded project of existing subs.
Wauw, is this picture taken in 401 or 402? Thanks for sharing!
Sandhi Yudha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 15th, 2013   #497
New Member
Private
No Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 27
Threads:
Smile

Indonesian and Chinese Navy will have joint exercise at 2013.
More discussion preparing this already held.
But no news where it will be.

Looks it will test new C-705 Indonesian navy too.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg wamenhan_20130112china.jpg (16.3 KB, 34 views)
Saracens is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 26th, 2013   #498
Senior Member
Colonel
Ananda's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,569
Threads:
indonesian build & design LST

Attach is the model of Indonesian new LST. The one on the left is the previous model from Kodja Bahari (another state owned shipyard asside PAL), while on the right is the latest model on which 3 of that already on constructions stages, 2 with Kodja Bahari and one with private owned shipyard. The pictures downloaded from local forum and angkasa readers site.

The latest design being critises by local forum based on their assumptions that latest design has less ability on blue ocean operations from previous design. Their assumption based mostly on the comparisons of the superstuctures.

I'm not an expert on naval architectures, and I found those critisim on the latest design by local forumers..well too simplyfied (to be say politely). Perhaps any members in here that have more experiences on naval architecture can see the model, and put oppinion whether those local forumers critisism on the latest design have justifications.

Those design basically have 117 m length, i know i haven't been able to find exact data. Personally I don't think LST being suitable for blue ocean operations.
Attached Images
File Type: jpeg PB100087.jpeg (34.7 KB, 43 views)
File Type: jpeg 308553_20130325063824.jpeg (183.1 KB, 51 views)
Ananda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 26th, 2013   #499
Senior Member
Colonel
Ananda's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,569
Threads:
This is also another local LST design from,PAL (also downloaded from local forum).The design lossing out to Kodja Bahari design above.
Attached Images
File Type: jpeg PB100233-1.jpeg (213.5 KB, 44 views)
Ananda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 28th, 2013   #500
Defense Enthusiast
Corporal
No Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 163
Threads:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ananda View Post
The latest design being critises by local forum based on their assumptions that latest design has less ability on blue ocean operations from previous design. Their assumption based mostly on the comparisons of the superstuctures.
I am no naval architect but in the first place, are those LST meant for so called 'blue water' operations in the first place? The LSTs are replacing the ex-USN LSTs which are used mainly by Koarmatim for inter-island transport. Anyway, the models are obviously not to scale.
koxinga is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 28th, 2013   #501
Senior Member
Colonel
Ananda's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,569
Threads:
My impressions was those LST design more to operate within Archipelago water, whille ovetseas amphibious blue water more the job for Makasar class LPD. It's being shown during the hostage crisis in Somalian water, where TNI-AL send small flotilla of Van Speijk/Leander Frigates and Makasar class LPD to operate on Somalian water.

However from what I gather, yes the new build LST supposedly have some blue water/ocean capabilities. This'is that being critisies by some local forumers, that the latest design have less blue water capabilities than previous design mostly based on the formed of its superstructure. Personally I see more on the shape of its hull, and based only to the model, did not see much differences from previous design to the latest/building design. For that I tend to believe the blue water capabilities from both design have no much differences.

But again I'm not having naval designers capabilities
Ananda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 3rd, 2013   #502
Senior Member
Colonel
Ananda's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,569
Threads:
Some pictures from TNI-AL Eastern Fleet sites : Penembakan Senjata Strategis TNI AL dalam Latgab TNI 2013

First picture show Exocet MM-40 SSM being fired from Sigma class Corvette KRI Iskandar Muda. Second Picture show Chinese SSM C-802 being fired from KRI Halim Perdakusuma a Van Speijk Frigate. Both missiles targeted to a recently deactivated Korean Build Tacoma class LST KRI Teluk Semangka.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg exocet mm-40.jpg (11.9 KB, 21 views)
File Type: jpg C-802.jpg (15.5 KB, 22 views)
Ananda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 3rd, 2013   #503
New Member
Private
No Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 27
Threads:
@Ananda,
Those missiles followed with a SUT missile from a Subs, and the target sunk.
Compare to last year drill, a single Yakhont can sunk a big ship.
So, I think the Navy will get more Yakhonts
Saracens is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 4th, 2013   #504
Senior Member
Colonel
Ananda's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,569
Threads:
Yakhont need mid range guidance to be really effective as designed. Until TNI-AL acquired suitable mid range guidance platform (like specialized ASW Helicopter), adding more Yakhont to the arsenal will not bring significant change compared to C-802 for example.
Ananda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 4th, 2013   #505
New Member
Private
No Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 27
Threads:
But, TNI-AL already put budget to buy 11 ASW Helicopters?
And there is talk to make "AWACS" from CN-235.
So, the needs are pinned.
Saracens is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 4th, 2013   #506
Defense Aficionado
Major General
No Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,346
Threads:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ananda View Post
adding more Yakhont to the arsenal will not bring significant change compared to C-802 for example.
For long range shots, C-802 would also need OTHT. A good example would be the Otomat Mk2, which on paper has a shorter maximum range than the C-802 but needs OTHT for long range shots [OTHT for the Otomats on the RMNs Laksama class are provided by the Super Lynxs]. The brochures of most missile manufacturers always have details on the maximum range but rarely the maximum effective range. We must always bear in mind that countries like the Soviet Union had satelittes, long range MPAs and other assets to help cue long range shots, countries like Malaysia or Indonesia don't have this luxury. In the case of the TNI-AL, it will have to get a common data link to cue the Yakhonts, MM-40s and C-802 and this will call for integration to be performed. The only other alternative will be for different platforms to be fitted with different data links.

Ananda, was there a discussion some time ago about a TNI-AL Sigma that had to be diverted to Turkey, for emergency repairs, whilst in the Gulf of Aden because of a major problem with the hull or engine?
STURM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 5th, 2013   #507
Senior Member
Colonel
Ananda's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,569
Threads:
@saracens, the talk for TNI-AL to get specialise asw heli for replacing old Wasp has been around forever. Those talk for 11 asw also being around for some time, however until I see definitive contract on hand, then it just a 'wish'.

Just like Sturm says, mid range guidance need to be adress even for shorter range SSM like C-802. However unlike Yakhont, C-802, MM-40, or other SSM on their class from what I heard from several sources, have relative less dependency to mid range guidance/OTHT assets compared to Yakhont, to be 'effective'.

In other word SSM on C-802 class can still relative more effective for a navy without OTHT assets like TNI-AL today. That's why I said unless TNI-AL already have sufficient OTHT assets, and having Yakhont presently has not provide significant point, compare to shorter range class SSM like C-802.

@STURM, yes I heard about the incident. However so far officialy TNI-AL still maintain that the repair on Turkey are not significant and just minor adjustment.
Ananda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 17th, 2013   #508
Senior Member
Colonel
Ananda's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,569
Threads:
Second Sigma Frigate for TNI-AL will be confirmed at IMDEX.
IMDEX Asia 2013: Two-ship programme firms up for Indonesian PKR frigate

Quote:
Dutch shipbuilder Damen Schelde Naval Shipbuilding, working in partnership with Indonesia's PT PAL, has confirmed the programme and build strategy for the construction of the first two SIGMA 10514 Perusak Kawal Rudal (PKR) guided missile frigates for the Indonesian Navy (TNI-AL).

Damen Schelde and the Indonesian Ministry of Defence signed a contract for the engineering, construction, and delivery of a single PKR in June 2012, with the contract coming into force at the end of 2013. An option for a second ship has subsequently been exercised, with this contract coming into effect in the next few weeks, Damen Schelde confirmed at IMDEX Asia 2013 in Singapore.
Unconfirmed info indicated that the overall SIGMA Frigates project will in the end consists of 6 vessels that will replace all Van Speijks Frigates.

However currently in Parliament already some discontent voices especially from Oppositions Parties that questions the viability of Tech Transfer (ToT) agreement on SIGMA Frigate (PKR) projects. They questions the value of the ToT from Damen to PAL, which although PAL will in the end work for 4 Modules from 6 Modules, however they (the Oppositions) insists that the modules that PAL allocated is much smaller in value compared to Modules that Damen handle.

Still it is a positive move, since the 6 Van Speijks increasingly already worn out (despite numerous update and modifications already being done to them), to be able to continue as TNI-AL prime major war ships after 2020.
Ananda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 17th, 2013   #509
Defense Enthusiast
Lieutenant
No Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 523
Threads:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ananda View Post
Second Sigma Frigate for TNI-AL will be confirmed at IMDEX.
IMDEX Asia 2013: Two-ship programme firms up for Indonesian PKR frigate



Unconfirmed info indicated that the overall SIGMA Frigates project will in the end consists of 6 vessels that will replace all Van Speijks Frigates.

However currently in Parliament already some discontent voices especially from Oppositions Parties that questions the viability of Tech Transfer (ToT) agreement on SIGMA Frigate (PKR) projects. They questions the value of the ToT from Damen to PAL, which although PAL will in the end work for 4 Modules from 6 Modules, however they (the Oppositions) insists that the modules that PAL allocated is much smaller in value compared to Modules that Damen handle.

Still it is a positive move, since the 6 Van Speijks increasingly already worn out (despite numerous update and modifications already being done to them), to be able to continue as TNI-AL prime major war ships after 2020.
Good news.
In 2020 the Van Speijks are more than 50 years old....
But no news/info about the Nakhoda Ragam class at this moment right?
Sandhi Yudha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 17th, 2013   #510
Senior Member
Colonel
Ananda's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,569
Threads:
Well for Nahkoda Ragam deal, so far officially there's only one problem left. The deal for VL replacement. The Min-def in here still want with the price agreed on, the Sea Wolf VL being replaced by VL of their choosing (presumably VL MICA since that was being talked as VL choosen for PKR program).

It's this one item that being info that still halt the negotiations being concluded.
Ananda is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:42 PM.