Go Back   DefenceTalk Forum - Military & Defense Forums > Global Defense & Military > Navy & Maritime

Defense News
Land, Air & Naval Forces






Military Photos
Latest Military Pictures
Defense Reports
Aerospace & Defence


Indonesia: 'green water navy'

This is a discussion on Indonesia: 'green water navy' within the Navy & Maritime forum, part of the Global Defense & Military category; 3 years ago on this thread (post # 85), I put a concept from Indodefence Dec 2008 of Trimaran/Catamaran FPB ...


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 14 votes, 4.07 average.
Old July 31st, 2012   #451
Senior Member
Colonel
Ananda's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,572
Threads:
3 years ago on this thread (post # 85), I put a concept from Indodefence Dec 2008 of Trimaran/Catamaran FPB from Nortsea Boats (a local company in East Java with some relations to Swedish family ownership).

This days the company official site already put 3 concept of 63 M Trimaran boats for FPB, CG, and SAR : North Sea Boats - 63m Offshore Patrol Vessel Catamaran
The company and some local forumers/blog claim that they already near completion of first Trimaran FPB prototype for Indonesian Navy from total 4 contract.

The Trimaran FPB was claimed as part of 24 FPB plan to be build locally with the rest 20 will consists of Palindo KCR 40 and PAL KCR 60.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Trimaran CG.jpg (22.2 KB, 13 views)
File Type: jpg Trimaran FPB.jpg (13.7 KB, 13 views)
File Type: jpg Trimaran SAR.jpg (27.3 KB, 12 views)
Ananda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 1st, 2012   #452
Senior Member
Colonel
Ananda's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,572
Threads:
Local shipyard will build 1 Oiler and 2 LST for Indonesian Navy (TNI-AL). From Ministry of Defence site: Wamenhan Resmikan Pembangunan Tiga Kapal Perang

Using Google Translate:

Quote:
Jakarta, DMC - Deputy Secretary of Defense (Wamenhan) RI Gen. Sjafrie accompanied Kemhan Laksdya Sumartono TNI and TNI Laksdya Wakasal Marsetyo as well as a number of military officers and the Force Headquarters, Tuesday (31/7), inaugurated the construction of three ships at Dockyard PT. Dock and Boating (DKB) Kodja Bahari, in Jakarta, which is marked with the laying of the keel (keel laying) the construction of one unit type warship Liquid Petroleum Support (BCM) and the first steel cutting (first steel cutting) for the construction of two ships kinds of Landing Ship Tank (LST)

Meanwhile, President Director of PT Dok Kodja Bahari Riry Syeried Jetta in readiness reports completion of the construction of the ship - the ship is delivered, that the ships of a length of 122.40 BCM meters, 16.50 meters wide, has a maximum speed of 18 knots and a capacity of liquid petroleum materials as much as 5500 m3 to be completed and submitted in December 2013. Development pattern of the ship using Multiyard Single Construction Method with Integrated Hull Construction Outfitting system & Painting, which is organized in three shipyards in Jakarta are performed in parallel as well as the construction of boat building has a total of 550 tonnes from 1770 tonnes. As for the length of the ship LST 117 meters, 16.40 meters wide with a maximum speed of 16 knots, is projected to transport the tank is not only the type of BMP 3F but also for the caliber of Leopard tanks.
Several thing that point out on the this deal:
1. It's the first LST and Naval Specs Oilers that being build by Indonesian local shipyard. The local shipyard already have experience for commercial tankers up to 30,000 DWT, but (if not mistaken) this is the first Tankers with Military Specs from Local Shipyard. The Min-def site show a picture of Tanker Model, which seems for me show influence of existing TNI-AL ex RFA Tanker.
2. The constructions method conducted by modular Multi-Shipyard model, also seems the first also in Local Shipyard (at least for Military job).
3. The LST also will be the largest LST for TNI-AL. It will also have the strengthen capability to transport MBT. Other existing LST (ex East German, and South Korean ones), has only capabilities to transport Light Tanks and Light Armor vehicles.
Ananda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 24th, 2012   #453
Junior Member
Private First Class
No Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 58
Threads:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ananda View Post
3 years ago on this thread (post # 85), I put a concept from Indodefence Dec 2008 of Trimaran/Catamaran FPB from Nortsea Boats (a local company in East Java with some relations to Swedish family ownership).

This days the company official site already put 3 concept of 63 M Trimaran boats for FPB, CG, and SAR : North Sea Boats - 63m Offshore Patrol Vessel Catamaran
The company and some local forumers/blog claim that they already near completion of first Trimaran FPB prototype for Indonesian Navy from total 4 contract.

The Trimaran FPB was claimed as part of 24 FPB plan to be build locally with the rest 20 will consists of Palindo KCR 40 and PAL KCR 60.
Finally the official announcement published: http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...47512679_n.jpg

However no official details on weapon or sensor specs yet. Hopefully not downgrade again like the KCR 40 CIWS.
Gadjah Mada is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 30th, 2012   #454
Senior Member
Colonel
Ananda's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,572
Threads:
Indonesian Trimaran FPB

Pictures uploaded from Local forum and Radar Banyuwangi News.

According to the various sources (navy and Lundin sites), This Trimaran FPB (will be named KRI Klewang) will be able to take missiles with concealed placement in the superstructure. The Navy info says this is the first Trimaran FPB from 4 already in the order.

Well in my view, future order will much depend on the actual performance of this FPB. This Lundin design together with Palindo KCR 40 and PAL KCR 60 hoped by the Navy will be the standard Indonesian FPB in the future. This design also the first of Indonesian Navy FPB claimed to be completely based on Composite materials.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Trimaran 1.jpg (100.7 KB, 17 views)
File Type: jpg Trimaran 2.jpg (110.6 KB, 17 views)
Ananda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 31st, 2012   #455
Junior Member
Private First Class
No Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 58
Threads:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ananda View Post
This design also the first of Indonesian Navy FPB claimed to be completely based on Composite materials.
The first boat made from fiber carbon composite exactly, since KRI Tedong Naga (90 tonne patrol boat) and its sisters were already made from composite but fiber glass composite. This KRI Tedong Naga as i recall in 2005 collided with Malaysian Navy boat made from steel in Ambalat.

Fiber carbon is much stronger than fiber glass and so does the price.
Gadjah Mada is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 31st, 2012   #456
Senior Member
Colonel
Ananda's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,572
Threads:
KRI Klewang Launching Video from Metro TV on You Tube: PELUNCURAN PERDANA KRI KLEWANG (TRIMARAN) 31-8-12. - YouTube
Metro TV (Local version of Indonesian Fox News), claim that the vessels is one of the most innovative naval vessels in the world (well it's an Indonesian versions of Fox) .

Lundin company it self (North Sea Boats :North Sea Boats ) build by Jon Lundin (a Swedish Nationals) with his wife Liza (an Indonesian Nationals), which at first specialize on RHIBS, Catamaran Coastal Patrol vessels and other specialized-small sport vessels. Lundin him self coming from family of Swedish shipbuilders, and this project is the biggest that his company conduct so far.

The interview conducted by His wife Liza, and She admitted that the vessels used extensive 'overseas/international' resources in training local resources manufacturing the vessels. In my opinion Jon Lundin use his Swedish Network and Technology on conducting this project.

Also as I've put on my previous post, she acknowledged (not straight away) that further contract from Indonesian Navy will much depend on the performance on this first vessels. Showing in my book, that this vessels is Technological Prototype/Demonstrator. It will be capable for Naval gun and missiles, but the result of KRI Klewang trial and operational performance will determine further batch of this kind of vessels within Indonesian operation.

Quote:
The first boat made from fiber carbon composite exactly, since KRI Tedong Naga (90 tonne patrol boat) and its sisters were already made from composite but fiber glass composite.
Well Fiber Glass constructions with Indonesian Ship/Boat builder has been around since the 80's. However Fiber Glass materials even it's clasified as composite, is relative simple process. But anyway, I agree I should put Fiber Carbon Composite materials on my previous post, since the technology on using and treatment of this kind composite materials technics for Indonesian builders still not entirely mastered by them yet. Lundin North Sea Boats can be considered pioneer within Indonesian ship building Industry on mastering this kind of materials.
Ananda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 31st, 2012   #457
Senior Member
Colonel
Ananda's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,572
Threads:
Got it from Local forum (Kaskus from forumers id Kenyot 10).. KRI Klewang already in the water plus official Press Release from the Builder (North Sea Boats). Based on the Press Release, the Builder collaborate with several overseas sources ranging from Scandinavia, German, and China (for Materials). The design collaborated with New Zealand Naval Architects LOMOcean Ltd.

Propulsion using 4 MAN V12 Diesel coupled with MJP 550 water jets ( I believe this made the vessels First Indonesian Naval ships propelled by water jets and not conventional propeller). With only 1.2 M draft made this vessels suitable for Indonesian inshore/littoral operations. The builder claim it has patrol range of 2000 nm or 10 days at sea (according another source).

The Builders say KRI Klewang as the first ships, will use Chinese weapons system including CIWS and Missiles. Local forum speculated that it will be Chinese C-705 missiles with either Type 630 or Type 730 CIWS. Although the builder claim that the vessels actually builded with 40 mm - 57 mm gun in mind. With the builders Scandinavian/Sweden pedigree, I do believe they have Bofors gun in mind (which basically 40 mm and 57 mm Bofors gun both already operational with TNI-AL).

However with TNI-AL seems now already in cooperation with China on developing weapons suit for the Next Gen FPB (Palindo KCR 40 and PAL KCR 60), thus as part of plan FPB, North Sea Boats Trimaran I believe will be using China originated system also, to ensure standardization throughout TNI-AL next gen FPB.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Trimaran Press Realease1.jpg (165.2 KB, 12 views)
File Type: jpg Trimaran Press Realese2.jpg (49.2 KB, 13 views)
File Type: jpg Trimaran3.jpg (61.9 KB, 21 views)
File Type: jpg Trimaran4.jpg (80.2 KB, 22 views)
Ananda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 3rd, 2012   #458
Junior Member
Private First Class
No Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 58
Threads:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ananda View Post
The Builders say KRI Klewang as the first ships, will use Chinese weapons system including CIWS and Missiles. Local forum speculated that it will be Chinese C-705 missiles with either Type 630 or Type 730 CIWS. Although the builder claim that the vessels actually builded with 40 mm - 57 mm gun in mind. With the builders Scandinavian/Sweden pedigree, I do believe they have Bofors gun in mind (which basically 40 mm and 57 mm Bofors gun both already operational with TNI-AL).

However with TNI-AL seems now already in cooperation with China on developing weapons suit for the Next Gen FPB (Palindo KCR 40 and PAL KCR 60), thus as part of plan FPB, North Sea Boats Trimaran I believe will be using China originated system also, to ensure standardization throughout TNI-AL next gen FPB.
As mentioned in facebook page: 63m FAST MISSILE TRIMARAN - PRESS RELEASE | Facebook

It is indeed will use Chinese system (CSOC and CPMIEC). However the number of missile carried are up to 8 C-705 AShM missiles, more than previous information that was up only to 4 missiles. If the trimaran can carry 8 missiles I wonder what role it will play, since it has more missiles than most of TNI boats.

The company seems also eager to offer the trimaran to other country where they mention about the versatility of system installed. It can carry other missiles like Exocet, RBS, etc.
Gadjah Mada is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 3rd, 2012   #459
Senior Member
Colonel
Ananda's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,572
Threads:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gadjah Mada View Post

It is indeed will use Chinese system (CSOC and CPMIEC). However the number of missile carried are up to 8 C-705 AShM missiles, more than previous information that was up only to 4 missiles. If the trimaran can carry 8 missiles I wonder what role it will play, since it has more missiles than most of TNI boats.
.
Whether 4 or 8, basically it's still a FPB. In ScandAsia.Com, Jhon Lundin claim with the vessels 'low signature' and carbon fibre materials it can confidently claim as stealth charaterisrics vessels. Let say his claim can be hold, a stealth FPB means still FPB.

In this forum and several other forum, many discussions has been held on the merit of FPB on todays battlefield. For me, the merit of FPB for archipelago nation like Indonesia is rest on hit and run tactics, using the full benefit of archipelago nature.
Ananda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 3rd, 2012   #460
Defense Aficionado
Major General
No Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,346
Threads:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ananda View Post
In this forum and several other forum, many discussions has been held on the merit of FPB on todays battlefield. For me, the merit of FPB for archipelago nation like Indonesia is rest on hit and run tactics, using the full benefit of archipelago nature.
Experience from WW2 in operations conducted by RN MTBs and Kriegsmarine S-Boots showed that light naval vessels like FPBs and FACs are fine as long as they do not come into contact with larger surface units and airpower. Though FPBs in TNI-AL service will indeed be useful for hit and run attacks and sea denial in choke points, success will be very dependent on cooperation provided by air units and other assets.

Last edited by STURM; September 3rd, 2012 at 05:50 PM.
STURM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 4th, 2012   #461
Senior Member
Colonel
Ananda's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,572
Threads:
Ex Nahkoda Ragam for TNI-AL

from Seputar Indonesia daily with Google Translate: Harian Seputar Indonesia, Sumber Referensi Terpercaya

Quote:
Jakarta - Program type frigate warship procurement of Brunei Darussalam is expected to begin to be realized next year. Purchase plan that was opposed by the House of Representatives because of the quality of the vessel in doubt.

However, the Chief of Staff of the Navy (KSAL) Admiral Soeparno ensure that the ship was in a state of war sempurna.Tiga of British ships would come gradually from 2013 to 2014. KSAL assess Indonesia is fortunate to have three units ship. Because the ships are armed with complete was bought at a bargain price.

"Only issued USD380 million for the three unit.Brunei just bought the boat with a unit price of $ 600 million," he said in Jakarta yesterday. According to him, Brunei not be bought from the British frigate was not suitable for the non-technical. "They ordered a large ship, but it was a little navy. So (ship) would be, they are confused, "he explained.

On the one hand, Indonesia is requiring reinforcement warships for the Navy. It is seen as an opportunity to get an extra ship cheaply as Brunei itself is not so wear it. Moreover, the ship was armed complete. Not only that, the ship was also made to a high specification.
The Navy (TNI-Al) Chief seems indicated the procurement for 3 ex Brunei Nahkoda Ragam class Light Frigate still got momentum to occurred. His reinforce the Navy and Mindef position with USD 380 mio deal for all 3 Nahkoda Ragam ships, it's a good deal for vessels that are not being used operationally by Brunei Navy.

Some opposition from Parliament (as expected from Opposition parties), seems still going on. However as the Leopard 2 and F-16 saga, many believe it will be pass on.
Ananda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 5th, 2012   #462
Junior Member
Private First Class
No Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 58
Threads:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ananda View Post
Some opposition from Parliament (as expected from Opposition parties), seems still going on. However as the Leopard 2 and F-16 saga, many believe it will be pass on.
Those MPs will absolutely say OK after sightseeing to Germany and caught by Indonesian students when shopping in the luxury shops using tax payers money.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ananda View Post
The Navy (TNI-Al) Chief seems indicated the procurement for 3 ex Brunei Nahkoda Ragam class Light Frigate still got momentum to occurred. His reinforce the Navy and Mindef position with USD 380 mio deal for all 3 Nahkoda Ragam ships, it's a good deal for vessels that are not being used operationally by Brunei Navy.

Some opposition from Parliament (as expected from Opposition parties), seems still going on. However as the Leopard 2 and F-16 saga, many believe it will be pass on.
May be another sightseeing to the UK is necessary plus some VIP tickets for watching Premier League match for those MPs. After all, they have only two years left for exploring the globe without their own money.
Gadjah Mada is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 7th, 2012   #463
Defense Enthusiast
Lieutenant
No Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 525
Threads:
Thanks for the good news Ananda
I actually wanted to post a question about the Nakhoda Ragams deal today, but you have already answered me by posting this....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gadjah Mada View Post
Those MPs will absolutely say OK after sightseeing to Germany and caught by Indonesian students when shopping in the luxury shops using tax payers money.




May be another sightseeing to the UK is necessary plus some VIP tickets for watching Premier League match for those MPs. After all, they have only two years left for exploring the globe without their own money.
hehehe: Ini Dia Foto Anggota DPR Asyik 'Plesiran' di Denmark - Yahoo! News Indonesia

Thanks

Last edited by OPSSG; September 7th, 2012 at 11:41 AM. Reason: Fixed quote format
Sandhi Yudha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 28th, 2012   #464
Senior Member
Colonel
Ananda's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,572
Threads:
Indonesian Trimaran FPB Burned

From Kompas on-line : http://regional.kompas.com/read/2012...bat.Korsleting

The brand new Trimaran FPB KRI Klewang, that just being launch a month ago, totally burned down. The cause still under investigations, however the indication is electrical short -circuit during the fitting. I suspect, the damage control system is not properly installed yet.

The vessels under system fitting, and scheduled to undergo sea trial in October-November. Well, despite their ambitions, North Sea Boat still a small company, and this FPB is the biggest vessel they have made. Hope this accident will not made them go-under financially. So far this small company already show more innovation than larger and more established Indonesian shipyard.

Just wandering though, the extent of the burning remind me of HMS Sheffield aluminum superstructure fire after the Argentinean Exocet hit her. This KRI Klewang supposedly build nearly all based on carbon composite material. Is carbon composite material as flammable as aluminum ?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg KRI Klewang on Fire.jpg (3.1 KB, 19 views)
File Type: jpg KRI Klewang on Fire 2.jpg (25.7 KB, 12 views)
Ananda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 28th, 2012   #465
Junior Member
Private First Class
No Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 58
Threads:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ananda View Post
Just wandering though, the extent of the burning remind me of HMS Sheffield aluminum superstructure fire after the Argentinean Exocet hit her. This KRI Klewang supposedly build nearly all based on carbon composite material. Is carbon composite material as flammable as aluminum ?
I have no experience of using Fiber carbon materials but I have used fiber glass composites. Actually both materials have resin content which is very flammable. I have experience that a little bit of mistreatment it will burn easily.

And according to this report: www.fire.tc.faa.gov/pdf/07-57.pdf

The composite has about 20-30% of resin content.

We do not know though, whether KRI Klewang hull made purely of fiber carbon composites or sandwich structure with sheet materials which is exist in common fiber glass boat.

Hope Lundin could learn a lot from this and keep make improvisation. Indeed they need damage control management expert for next time.
Gadjah Mada is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:55 AM.