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Argentine navy future

This is a discussion on Argentine navy future within the Navy & Maritime forum, part of the Global Defense & Military category; Interesting I imagine this is either an replacement for the MEKO's or their French Avios(both of which they cannot effectively ...


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Old February 3rd, 2015   #76
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Interesting I imagine this is either an replacement for the MEKO's or their French Avios(both of which they cannot effectively maintain or operate) surprised the wasn't an anti air missiles on that spec considering that its fitted AShM. pretty good value $330 million for 8(rough calculation $42 million x8 as that what Nigeria paid)

A interesting choice showing the great weakness of Argentina as from the report it seems that everything is going to be china built.(the waste of money on the repair of Adm Iriza seems evident and their own OPV's program now seem dead. The fact its china allows to pay on credit or more likely commodities on a class which though looking modern seems step down on the existing classes in service and the fact that according to the arctical China will be building the rest of the fleet is extremely interesting as it shows how utterly dependent on China Argentina is.
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Old February 4th, 2015   #77
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I'd say the same, their 9 strong corvette fleet is usually reported in being a bad state with respect to maintenance and days at sea.

It might end up being FFBNW AShMs ultimately, that or inaccurate rerporting perhaps.

Janes reports that Brazilian media claims the deal could be for 2 Chinese built and 3 built in Argentina.
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Old February 4th, 2015   #78
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95 metres seems short for a proper ASW platform with a towed array and so forth - I wonder how much of this is aspirational kit?
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Old February 5th, 2015   #79
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95 metres seems short for a proper ASW platform with a towed array and so forth - I wonder how much of this is aspirational kit?
It could be one of those basic towed arrays which some Russian FAC's were fitted with rather than a full fat towed array. I would have thought it would be pretty basic as their is only so much warship you can get at this low end. Long term maintenance will be fun as well considering they can barely operate their MEKO's and D'Estienne d'Orves class
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Old February 7th, 2015   #80
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Give 'em the money & they could fix what they've got, & build OPVs in Argentina. Some years ago they were all set to build several Fassmer 80 metre OPVs. Shipyard lined up, all ready to go - but Cristina didn't provide the money.

That was when the economy was booming.

There you have it: the essential problem isn't lack of ability to repair anything, or the government lacking money. It is the refusal of the government to pay for the armed forces. No money for spares, let alone new vessels.
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Old March 18th, 2015   #81
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Give 'em the money & they could fix what they've got, & build OPVs in Argentina. Some years ago they were all set to build several Fassmer 80 metre OPVs. Shipyard lined up, all ready to go - but Cristina didn't provide the money.

That was when the economy was booming.

There you have it: the essential problem isn't lack of ability to repair anything, or the government lacking money. It is the refusal of the government to pay for the armed forces. No money for spares, let alone new vessels.
Given the current government the point is agreed. Perhaps, depending on how much and quickly PRC would like to enter the SA markets, a small donation to the Argentine military of a couple of ships and perhaps jet fighters, probably smooths the road a bit.

Be interesting to see what sort of agreements or rights Beijing will insist upon prior. Another issue facing the Argentine armed forces, as with all militarizes globally, use of unmanned systems, many of which may be developed for commercial purposes, later modified for military uses. Small remotely operated platforms without crews, personnel costs universally are the largest burden on any defense budget. I am sure planners in Argentina are well aware.
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Old May 26th, 2016   #82
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Argentina is in informal discussions with the US over the potential sale of a surplus LSD of an unnamed type.

Argentina negotiating to buy second-hand US LSD | IHS Jane's 360

Had a crack at trying to guess what class but most of the recent LSDs are either in service, sunk, sold or scrapped. My brief search didn't indicate any which are just alongside.
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Old May 26th, 2016   #83
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Argentina is in informal discussions with the US over the potential sale of a surplus LSD of an unnamed type.

Argentina negotiating to buy second-hand US LSD | IHS Jane's 360

Had a crack at trying to guess what class but most of the recent LSDs are either in service, sunk, sold or scrapped. My brief search didn't indicate any which are just alongside.
I would imagine they would be after the Whidbey Island's. Good ships, recent modernisation, are likely to be sold/given away before they are completely knackered. They would be a good ship for pretty much any navy. Even if they had to wait a few years they would want to get in line now.

Somewhat skeptical of them getting them. I would imagine nations in the Asia pacific which are facing a much more complex threat would be gifted ahead of any sale to Argentina. I imagine the UK would have a lot to say about it as well.
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Old May 26th, 2016   #84
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I would imagine they would be after the Whidbey Island's. Good ships, recent modernisation, are likely to be sold/given away before they are completely knackered. They would be a good ship for pretty much any navy. Even if they had to wait a few years they would want to get in line now.
Thanks for the assist, I had assumed they weren't up for negotiation as they're still in service.

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Somewhat skeptical of them getting them. I would imagine nations in the Asia pacific which are facing a much more complex threat would be gifted ahead of any sale to Argentina. I imagine the UK would have a lot to say about it as well.
It depends on the intentions those nations have of having any sort of capability to recapture any claimed islands in the first instance. I know Japan's creating that sort of capability, however do the likes of the Philippines or Vietnam have the money to fund a force capable of doing that?

Although other nations - such as Brazil - have invested in amphibious capability with no clear (IMO) reason for doing so.

As to the UK I'd agree, if anything comes from this I don't believe it'd happen before the election.
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Old May 26th, 2016   #85
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It's the only US LSD class available. All the previous classes have been sold, scrapped or sunk. The last Thomaston has been retired by Brazil, replaced by the French LPD Foudre - now Bahia. AFAIK there are some Austin class LPDs, but they're ancient.

If they can't get one, the Makassar class could be second choice. Peru's building two.
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Old May 26th, 2016   #86
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USN are looking to keep the LPD line going through ordering an extra hull before possibly/likely transitioning to a simpler variant to replace the LSDs. This would logically begin to free up Whidbey Islands for disposal / sale. Makes sense for the US to do this as the new ships will be more capable and likely cheaper to run, while the savings on SLEPS and other increased maintenance on the older platforms, as well as avoiding the loss of capability/experience in building amphibs will provide further savings to offset the cost of new ships.
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Old May 26th, 2016   #87
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I would imagine they would be after the Whidbey Island's. Good ships, recent modernisation, are likely to be sold/given away before they are completely knackered. They would be a good ship for pretty much any navy. Even if they had to wait a few years they would want to get in line now.

Somewhat skeptical of them getting them. I would imagine nations in the Asia pacific which are facing a much more complex threat would be gifted ahead of any sale to Argentina. I imagine the UK would have a lot to say about it as well.
But Asia-Pacific countries are mostly not in need of old ex-USN amphibs. Japan, S. Korea & Singapore build their own designs. Australia has a fairly new ex-RFA LSD & a new LHD with another on the way. Indonesia has five new Korean-designed LPDs, two locally built, & is building two more for the Philippines. Thailand has a new Singaporean LPD & a pair of locally-built LSTs.

So - do you mean Vietnam or Malaysia? The latter has been reported to be looking for a replacement for the lost Sri Inderapura, but it's gone nowhere in six years, with no sign of any attempt to buy retired ships from European navies which have become available in that time. Would Vietnam be interested? An LSD could be seen as a big target.
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Old May 26th, 2016   #88
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But Asia-Pacific countries are mostly not in need of old ex-USN amphibs. Japan, S. Korea & Singapore build their own designs. Australia has a fairly new ex-RFA LSD & a new LHD with another on the way. Indonesia has five new Korean-designed LPDs, two locally built, & is building two more for the Philippines. Thailand has a new Singaporean LPD & a pair of locally-built LSTs.

So - do you mean Vietnam or Malaysia? The latter has been reported to be looking for a replacement for the lost Sri Inderapura, but it's gone nowhere in six years, with no sign of any attempt to buy retired ships from European navies which have become available in that time. Would Vietnam be interested? An LSD could be seen as a big target.
I would imagine they would be interested. US equipment might come with some US support as well. Which is why the may have passed over EU stuff (and some of those were going to be gobbled up by Navies with serious budgets that would have put them out of the running).

While older ships, they would still be very useful and very seaworthy. They are also the sort of ships that would allow these navies to have a more complex relationship with the US. As for being a target, I don't think that is a deal breaker.
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Old May 27th, 2016   #89
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If Malaysia was interested, why hasn't it done anything about it? There are five Austin-class LPDs sitting in storage, which Malaysia has expressed no interest in at all. India bought one several years ago - but maybe India's experience with it has put Malaysia off.

The Malaysian navy has no steam ships, & hasn't had any for many years. The necessary infrastructure would be quite a burden, far outweighing the value of any US support. This is probably a major factor in the general lack of interest in the Austin class among navies in search of amphibious ships. "What sort of diesels does it have? Steam turbines? Stop wasting my time!".

The Whidbey Island class hasn't yet been offered for sale, AFAIK, & there's talk of them being kept in service for many years to come.

Malaysia's best bet is probably either the Makassar class (same price last year as the Austin sold to India in 2007 cost, & much cheaper to run), or one (or even two) of the Santi when they come on the market. Well, unless it can overcome its prejudices & buy from Singapore, or cough up the cash for a new European ship.
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Old May 28th, 2016   #90
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If Malaysia was interested, why hasn't it done anything about it? There are five Austin-class LPDs sitting in storage, which Malaysia has expressed no interest in at all. India bought one several years ago - but maybe India's experience with it has put Malaysia off.
I'm not sure Malaysia is overtly interested.

But the US Would probably prefer a gift to a lot of other nations ahead of Argentina. Or as pointed out, just keep them. Or sink/sell for scrap.

I think Vietnam would be a better bet. I guess with a heavy support burden, the USN would be a common sight at Cam Rahn, err helping them. Vietnam might entertain a lot of possibilities. The platform isn't as important as the relationship that might be developed.

Argentina could purchase something from other nations. But I think they are after a complete US care package, including a recently refurbished ship, equipment, training, maybe some cash to get the whole thing going.
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