Topol-M Production Shutting Down

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
The Topol-M roadmobile variant is ending production this year. The RS-24 will be produced instead, as far as I can tell from this article.

http://arms-tass.su/?page=article&aid=65371&cid=25

The RS-24 will then be the replacement for the Topol roadmobile complexes.... however the Topol-M silo-based will continue to replace the UR-100NUTTH if I understand things correctly. That leaves the Satan in service until the iirc 2020 timeframe, to which it's life was extended, and when a replacement will become available.
 

Wall83

Member
The RS-24 will then be the replacement for the Topol roadmobile complexes.... however the Topol-M silo-based will continue to replace the UR-100NUTTH if I understand things correctly. That leaves the Satan in service until the iirc 2020 timeframe, to which it's life was extended, and when a replacement will become available.
This must make the mobile complexes a much greater threat. Not only are they mobile and hard to locate, now they are also mirved.

EDIT: I also read in the article that there are now 50 silo based and 12 mobile topol-m missile on alert as of january 2009.
 
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Arc Light

Banned Member
The Topol-M roadmobile variant is ending production this year. The RS-24 will be produced instead, as far as I can tell from this article.

The RS-24 will then be the replacement for the Topol roadmobile complexes.... however the Topol-M silo-based will continue to replace the UR-100NUTTH if I understand things correctly. That leaves the Satan in service until the iirc 2020 timeframe, to which it's life was extended, and when a replacement will become available.
It is not quite true. This RS-24 ICBM is in fact Topol-M missile equipped with MIRVs. So Topol-Ms will be still produced anyway. I am wondering if these outdated R-36M2 and UR-100N missiles are still fully operational. Their service life was extended three times without proper modernization as for US Minuteman III force.
 
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Chrom

New Member
It is not quite true. This RS-24 ICBM is in fact Topol-M missile equipped with MIRVs. So Topol-Ms will be still produced anyway. I am wondering if these outdated R-36M2 and UR-100N missiles are still fully operational. Their service life was extended three times without proper modernization as for US Minuteman III force.
Every year 1 or 2 of these old missiles are fired in excercises. Successfully firing required to confirm service life extention.

Btw, converted old Satans are used to launch commerical sattellites, that also confirms its reliability.
 

Arc Light

Banned Member
Every year 1 or 2 of these old missiles are fired in excercises. Successfully firing required to confirm service life extention.

Btw, converted old Satans are used to launch commerical sattellites, that also confirms its reliability.
It is a primitive propaganda cheat. Only flight-tested missiles are fully refurbished before launch. On the other hand old ICBMs in silos did not get any serious modernization program similar to US efforts due to lack of funds. Moreover R-36M should have been withdrawn in 1999 and UR-100N in 1995 at most according to their original lifetime cycles. However they will stay in service until about 2020 which is a pure derision.

Therefore now Russian deterrence capability is very undermined...there will be no real strategic parity with the US anymore!
 

SkolZkiy

New Member
There is now R-36M on service - there are only R-36M2 by the way.
Also part of liquid fuel ICBM are kept in "dry mode" so we have enough time to develop and produce new ICBM like SS-18 =)
Also there is already RS-24 Yars =) with 6-10 warheads

And Chrom posted right about test launches.
 

Arc Light

Banned Member
There is now R-36M on service - there are only R-36M2 by the way.
I always mean exactly this SS-18 variant and my lifetime data are also correct.

Also part of liquid fuel ICBM are kept in "dry mode" so we have enough time to develop and produce new ICBM like SS-18 =)
Do you suggest Russian ICBMs are now kept in non launch-ready state? :eek:nfloorl:

Also there is already RS-24 Yars =) with 6-10 warheads
I would be very skeptical RS-24 aka MIRV-ed Topol M can carry so many warheads.

And Chrom posted right about test launches.
Yes but he is not right about silo based ICBMs.
 

SkolZkiy

New Member
Originally Posted by SkolZkiy
There is now R-36M on service - there are only R-36M2 by the way.
I always mean exactly this SS-18 variant and my lifetime data are also correct.
Sorry I meant there is NO R-36M in service. They are used in program "Dnepr"

Do you suggest Russian ICBMs are now kept in non launch-ready state?
I meant that Russia has produced some stores of ICBMs - it means that now we have 58 SS-18 mod3 (R-36M2) in service and there is some ammount of them in stores which are being kept in "DRY" mode.

I would be very skeptical RS-24 aka MIRV-ed Topol M can carry so many warheads.
RS-24 much differs from Topol-M and of cause not only in MIRV.
 

Feanor

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I always mean exactly this SS-18 variant and my lifetime data are also correct.
You don't know what criteria and evaluations are used to extend their lifetime. Neither do I. Neither you nor me are in a position to make any definitive claims.

Do you suggest Russian ICBMs are now kept in non launch-ready state? :eek:nfloorl:
It's not a suggestion, it's a fact. There are some missiles kept in dry stages.

I would be very skeptical RS-24 aka MIRV-ed Topol M can carry so many warheads.
I keep a close eye on Russian press, but have not found any definitive statements with technical data to back up the claim that the RS-24 is simply a MIRVed RS-12M. Do you have proof?

Now to elaborate on your statement about nuclear parity. It doesn't matter. All that matters is that we can reliably deliver 30-40 nuclear warheards on US soil. Do you want to lose your top ten cities? Naturally not. Therefore it's a credible deterrent. Of course there are also close to two thousand tactical warheads to worry about in case of war.
 

SkolZkiy

New Member
about reliably deliver - much more 30-40 may be 300-400 =))
about TNW (tactical nuclear weapons) - nobody knows exactly how many of them Russia have, there is no any open info.
 

Arc Light

Banned Member
You don't know what criteria and evaluations are used to extend their lifetime. Neither do I. Neither you nor me are in a position to make any definitive claims.
I suggest you to research Minuteman force modernization programs since 1996. Later you can easily compare them with Russian "modernization" of old Soviet ICBMs. Note US ICBMs are solid propelled and old Soviet ones use liquid propellant.

It's not a suggestion, it's a fact. There are some missiles kept in dry stages.
Of course I know that about 30 or so old UR-100N missiles once brought from Ukraine and now kept dry in storage. However I mean operationally deployed missiles staying dry in silos. It is an obvious idiocy because such missiles cannot be launched on alert. This is some first generation ICBMs force posture!

I keep a close eye on Russian press, but have not found any definitive statements with technical data to back up the claim that the RS-24 is simply a MIRVed RS-12M. Do you have proof?
Supposedly you are not careful enough! Here you are a proof:

Silo-based RS-24 - Blog - Russian strategic nuclear forces


Now to elaborate on your statement about nuclear parity. It doesn't matter. All that matters is that we can reliably deliver 30-40 nuclear warheards on US soil. Do you want to lose your top ten cities? Naturally not. Therefore it's a credible deterrent. Of course there are also close to two thousand tactical warheads to worry about in case of war.
Yes but only unless US deploy global missile defense systems which easily intercepts 40 remaining Russian warheads. I think everything goes in that direction and what is worse Russia becoming second rank nuclear power won't be able to save strategic offensive parity with the US and simultaneously cannot deploy its own national-wide ABM system due to technological and financial gaps. Both facts will result lack of Russian deterrence in any open confrontation with US. Moreover Americans always pissed on Russian TNWs because they cannot reach CONUS - look at all US-USSR arms negotiations. Now Russian offensive TNW delivery systems are old and much less numerous than during Soviet era: very short ranged Tochka SRBM, Su-24M carrying gravity bombs only, maybe some anti-ship missiles on a few naval platforms if Russian does not respect 1991 Bush-Gorbachev unofficial agreement and that is all. In other words they can be intercepted or preemptively destroyed by US forward positioned forces quite easily. However US tactical nukes carrying platforms (CVBGs, SSNs, tactical aircrafts) are now outside Russian reach being well protected. Therefore US possess also tactical nuclear supremacy over Russia.
 

Feanor

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I suggest you to research Minuteman force modernization programs since 1996. Later you can easily compare them with Russian "modernization" of old Soviet ICBMs. Note US ICBMs are solid propelled and old Soviet ones use liquid propellant.
You claim that I can easily compare. However I do not have the information on the criteria and testing procedures used to extend the lifetime of our ICBMs. Do you? If so please provide the evidence. I am aware of the Minuteman modernizations. They are beside the point.

Of course I know that about 30 or so old UR-100N missiles once brought from Ukraine and now kept dry in storage. However I mean operationally deployed missiles staying dry in silos. It is an obvious idiocy because such missiles cannot be launched on alert. This is some first generation ICBMs force posture!
From what I understand some regular missiles are also kept in dry storage, and are only kept in ready mode when they come on to combat duty (боевое дежурство).

Supposedly you are not careful enough! Here you are a proof:

Silo-based RS-24 - Blog - Russian strategic nuclear forces
All my respect for Pavel's blog notwithstanding, he is simplifying in the assumption that he is dealing with a well informed reader. The exact nature of the RS-24 was debated earlier on Pavel's blog and the results were inconclusive. It takes some serious evidence for you to be able to state that the RS-24 is "a MIRVed Topol-M". For one you would require technical information on the RS-24 or an official MoD statement claiming as much. Do you have either one?

Yes but only unless US deploy global missile defense systems which easily intercepts 40 remaining Russian warheads. I think everything goes in that direction and what is worse Russia becoming second rank nuclear power won't be able to save strategic offensive parity with the US and simultaneously cannot deploy its own national-wide ABM system due to technological and financial gaps. Both facts will result lack of Russian deterrence in any open confrontation with US. Moreover Americans always pissed on Russian TNWs because they cannot reach CONUS - look at all US-USSR arms negotiations. Now Russian offensive TNW delivery systems are old and much less numerous than during Soviet era: very short ranged Tochka SRBM, Su-24M carrying gravity bombs only, maybe some anti-ship missiles on a few naval platforms if Russian does not respect 1991 Bush-Gorbachev unofficial agreement and that is all. In other words they can be intercepted or preemptively destroyed by US forward positioned forces quite easily. However US tactical nukes carrying platforms (CVBGs, SSNs, tactical aircrafts) are now outside Russian reach being well protected. Therefore US possess also tactical nuclear supremacy over Russia.
You ignored what I wrote... I wrote: reliably deliver 30-40 warheads. ;) There is no doubt that the possibility is currently there, and will remain there for the next decade or so. After that, time will tell. Neither you nor I can predict accurately.
 

NoToWarButReady

New Member
Topol M is not really good

Topol M SS-27 is not really good

It´s not heavy in the same way like Minutemans and the only sence why they producing it is that all nuclear weapon i the USSR where produced in the Ukraine. Now they have the political problems with the country so they dont get the new missiles from the Ukranian industry.

SS-27 is the last missile Russia can produce by its own..

SS-18 Satan was MUCH more better. Take a look att the link

russiaonline.se
 

Arc Light

Banned Member
Topol M SS-27 is not really good

It´s not heavy in the same way like Minutemans and the only sence why they producing it is that all nuclear weapon i the USSR where produced in the Ukraine. Now they have the political problems with the country so they dont get the new missiles from the Ukranian industry.

SS-27 is the last missile Russia can produce by its own..

SS-18 Satan was MUCH more better.
In fact Topol/Topol-M missile family is worse than thirty years old Minuteman ICBMs. It has about 10-15 tons greater weight and shorter range than Minuteman III. It is primary due to worse quality of Russian solid fuel propulsion. These ICBMs were to be replaced by much smaller RSS-40 Kuryer mobile ICBM (being US Midgetman SICBM equivalent) 15 years ago. However two major Topol-M drawbacks are its small numbers and potentially very vulnerable deployment mode in silos and on huge TELs. I think US can now detect mobile Topol-M complex on patrol and destroy it with conventional PGMs especially there will be even ten times less mobile Topol-Ms than mobile Topols in the RVSN inventory. The same applies to all Russian silo based ICBMs. Moreover there will be only single warhead ICBMs in Russian arsenal in the future because old heavy Soviet missiles will be removed from service and START III Treaty will probably ban MIRV-ed ICBMs at all. Nevertheless now Russian cannot produce heavy ICBMs like R-36M because of financial shortfalls and separation from Ukrainian design bureaus.
 
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Feanor

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So Topol-M production has not stopped. The RS-24 development and testing is continuing, and another road-mobile Topol-M regiment has entered service at Tatischevo.

Åùå îäèí ïîëê "Òîïîëü-Ì" ñòàíåò íà áîåâîå äåæóðñòâî — ÎÐÓÆÈÅ ÐÎÑÑÈÈ, Êàòàëîã âîîðóæåíèÿ, âîåííîé è ñïåöèàëüíîé òåõíèêè

Additionally, I recall rumors that the RS-24 will only carry 3 warheads, which seems to confirm that it is indeed a MIRV-ed Topol-M. That and the fact that plans for a new heavy missile to replace the RS-36M2 have been announced.
 
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