Scud Missile in Libya and English Panels inside

[Lostfleet]

I was in Libya recently and I visited the war museum in Misurata. It is not a proper museum yet, mostly collection of war material from last years war and siege of Misurata.

There is a Scud missile and its carrier on its display ( I might be wrong at the identification I don't know about missiles that much)

What suprised me is that in the inside all of the labels were in English. Is that a normal practice for export versions of these missile carriers?

 

[STURM]

It could be possible that a decision was taken to apply at the factory, labels in English rather than Arabic for Libyan use - which I find strange. I recall after the 2006 war, the Israelis displayed captured Kornet [or was it the Metis or Konkurs] missiles in their cases that had labeling in English. It actually said : ''Ministry of Defence, Damascus''.

 

[Feanor]

It could be possible that at decision was taken to apply a the factory labels in English rather than Arabic for Libyan use - which I find strange. I recall after the 2006 war, the Israelis displayed captured Kornet [or was it the Metis or Konkurs] missiles in their cases that had labeling in English. It actually said : ''Ministry of Defence, Damascus''.

It was the Kornet-E iirc. There was a bit of a scandal about it, since it was capture in Hezbollah hands.

 

[Lostfleet]

I did not know about the Kornet incident, thank you about that,

English language was the only language I could spot in the vehicle, in both side rooms and driver's cabin. Can anyone tell me what are the side rooms are for ? There were two of them one on each side,

One other thing that suprised me was that I sat in the front cabin driver and it was pretty cramped for such a big vehicle. I know you don't go cruising with these thing but at least I would expect some elbow space.

 

[STURM]

I know you don't go cruising with these thing but at least I would expect some elbow space.

True. The first time I saw a BMP-1 [at Bovington], I was very surprised as to how cramped the 2 troop compartments were. In a book on the T-90, which I have that was written by Zaloga, he mentioned how the commander's position in the T-90 was much more cramp than any Russian MBT he had seen.

With regards, to labeling, it's entirely up to the customer, to choose what language they want the labeling to be in. The Royal Malaysian Air Force's [RMAF] Fulcrums for example, had their cockpit instrument labeling replaced with English ones. But then, these aircraft had originally been built for the Russian Air force but never delivered, so had labeling in Russian. The Su-30MKMs, which were specifically built for the RMAF, had everything in English. Changing the labeling is the easy part, the hard part is in translating the operating and technical manuals - for the radar, other flight components and ordnance - into English.

 

[Lostfleet]

Changing the labeling is the easy part, the hard part is in translating the operating and technical manuals - for the radar, other flight components and ordnance - into English.

well I am sure KGB did not have any problem translating during the cold war

Also it makes me think, wouldn't be politically wrong to manifacture a weapon system with your enemies language on it?

 

[STURM]

well I am sure KGB did not have any problem translating during the cold war

Also it makes me think, wouldn't be politically wrong to manifacture a weapon system with your enemies language on it?

I was referring to customers of Russian made weapons or systems that would find it easier changing the labels inside these weapons or systems but would have a harder time translating technical manuals from Russian into English.

 

[My2Cents]

well I am sure KGB did not have any problem translating during the cold war

When it comes to technical manuals you have to have someone who understands the subject, and the vagaries of the language. Consider the following classic:

The lead lead leads to …​

 

[PCShogun]

True. The first time I saw a BMP-1 [at Bovington], I was very surprised as to how cramped the 2 troop compartments were. In a book on the T-90, which I have that was written by Zaloga, he mentioned how the commander's position in the T-90 was much more cramp than any Russian MBT he had seen.

Soviet designs are known for being cramped. Its one way they make the overall silhouette smaller. Tank crewman are expected to be no taller than 5'9" tall (1.75 meters). You will not find any basketball stars in the ranks of Soviet armor crews. The T-90 has a height of 7'3", an inch shorter than then T-72. The Abrams is slightly taller at an even 8' but all are considerably shorter than the venerable M-60 at 10' 6".

So far as the English labels go, is this a true museum piece? If so, it may have been labeled in English in the hopes that western tourists could read them while spending their western currency in country.

 

[Lostfleet]

So far as the English labels go, is this a true museum piece? If so, it may have been labeled in English in the hopes that western tourists could read them while spending their western currency in country.

No it is not a true museum piece. After the war, they made one small building a memorial building and around that building they have placed most of the tools and vehicles used at the war by both sides. I am sure in the near future they will convert the place to a proper museum but currently it is more like a collection standing outside of the building next to the street.

STURM, I was more refering to the idea that back in the time I would think Soviets might have tried to export their language as well as their weapons and ideals, but I have no knowledge of that era so it was just a big assumption,

I added a few more pics of the museum

 

[STURM]

STURM, I was more refering to the idea that back in the time I would think Soviets might have tried to export their language as well as their weapons and ideals, but I have no knowledge of that era so it was just a big assumption, I

I get your point but if a customer so desired, the labels would have been replaced. There is also the question if the equipment was taken from Soviet army stocks and were rushed to the customer, if that were the case, no doubt the labels would have been in Russian.

 

[Lostfleet]

customer is always right

to print new labels is not a problem but would you know if they would have translated the software for the targeting computer and etc ?

 

[STURM]

customer is always right

to print new labels is not a problem but would you know if they would have translated the software for the targeting computer and etc ?

I doubt it. My guess is that this would have been the customer's responsibility, with feedback of course from the OEM. I do know for a fact however, that up to a few years ago, operating and maintenance manuals that were provided to customers of certain kinds of equipment, were in Russian. Translating was later done in country at the customers expense. I know of one particular army that ordered Metis ATGWs and Igla MANPADS, which received the manuals in Russian. Training by the manufacturers of these 2 missiles, was conducted in English.

 

[macman]

I've always regarded the Israeli Kornet claim as bogus.

There were a number of studies done of Hezbollah's weapon use in the war, including damage surveys of the destroyed Isreali tanks, & they basically said Hezbollah were using a mixture of Metis-M wire-guided anti-tank missiles (most likely old Syrian stocks) & RPG's.

The kornet claim turned up later after the extensive criticism of the Isreali army's performance in the field, pretty much as an excuse.
(They initially tried to float something similar with anti-ship missile that took apart the israeli corvette. Turned out to be an old chinese silkworm that Hezbollah had fixed up, if I'm recalling correctly).

As to seizing it from a captured Hezbollah position - they never actually captured anything. Blew a few to complete rubble, but nothing captured remotely intact.

My guess is the actual kornet presented was obtained through the equivalent of an military "straw buy", ie. using a front company to purchase the kornet legitimately, probably through Turkish contacts.