Little and easy question about thermonuclear weapons

oke139

New Member
So my physics teacher firmly believes that ALL thermonuclear weapons(Hydrogen) have been banned long time ago, because of their destructive force. I have never read such thing and always believed that modern larger nukes are basically all thermonuclear kind. I can't find anything about such ban online and i certianly can't find any proof of them being not banned either, i showed her the B61-s wiki page but she didn't believe it, she called her friend and was told that they were banned and so it went again... I think it has something to do with her age and the fact that she grew up in CCCP.
Oh and she isn't dumb, has doctorate from the university of moscow or something like that.

Also if someone could post some concrete proof that thermonuclears are not banned, would be so awesome since i told her i would find out and print some proof or something.
 

RobWilliams

Super Moderator
Staff member
PDF from the Select Committee of the US House of Representatives from the mid-90's.

http://www.house.gov/coxreport/pdf/ch2.pdf

Plenty of use of the words "thermonuclear weapons" including this example

The W-88 is a miniaturized, tapered thermonuclear warhead. It is the
United States’ most sophisticated strategic thermonuclear weapon
The W-88 being the weapon which currently arms US Trident D-5 SLBMs on their Ohio class SSBN's and forms their sea based arm of their nuclear deterrent.

Gunna say, there's a lot of ambiguity about nuclear weapons i'm not that hot on. Just sayin' that the W-88 is classed as a thermonuclear weapon, but there is the potential this isn't the type of thing your teacher is on about.
 

protoplasm

Active Member
So my physics teacher firmly believes that ALL thermonuclear weapons(Hydrogen) have been banned long time ago, because of their destructive force. I have never read such thing and always believed that modern larger nukes are basically all thermonuclear kind. I can't find anything about such ban online and i certianly can't find any proof of them being not banned either, i showed her the B61-s wiki page but she didn't believe it, she called her friend and was told that they were banned and so it went again... I think it has something to do with her age and the fact that she grew up in CCCP.
Oh and she isn't dumb, has doctorate from the university of moscow or something like that.

Also if someone could post some concrete proof that thermonuclears are not banned, would be so awesome since i told her i would find out and print some proof or something.
She is probably referring to the neutron bomb. Thermonuclear weapons as a group, i.e. those that generate a significant portion of their energy from fusion are currently sitting on top of tridents ready to go.

I couldn't find a specific reference to the neutron bomb being banned, but there may have been significant restrictions put in place whose effective result is that it isn't worth developing, testing and stockpiling enhanced radiation devices.
 
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Rimasta

Member
Yeah...um...nope

Your teacher should make better use of the internet. Thermonuclear weapons do not necessarily have to be 25 megaton city killers, it could be closer to about 300-600 kilotons. The difference is in the design. I'm not physicist first off, but a thermonuclear weapon is a two stage device. Usually. By making expert use of google, you can learn the device is detonated in stages, the first stage, fission, leads to the ignition of fusion fuel. Now apparently a tertiary stage is possible based on the same principles, making an even more destructive device.

This is done by placing fusion fuel at the center of the device, so when the primary stage detonates, in the fraction of a second all the energy is compressing in on the fusion fuel, causing it to reach critical mass and then you have a thermonuclear reaction. The process became known has "boosting", so for instance, a 20 kiloton Hiroshima sized bomb was detonated with tritium burning in the center. The made the yield go from 20 Kt to about 45 Kt, more than doubling the yield. Read up on operation Ivy Mike, thermonuclear weapon design, and Netflix has a great documentary known as "Trinity and Beyond". Also, a google search will tell you that current Trident 2 D5 missiles carry either a W-76 Thermonuclear warhead, or a W-88 thermonuclear warhead.
The U.S. Air Force has a large fleet of LGM-30 ICBM's. They were initially armed with either W-62 or W78 thermonuclear warheads, but are being upgraded with newer W87's. All are thermonuclear. The W87's came off the now retired MX Peacekeeper LGM-118 ICBM. This was America's most advanced ICBM.
The Russian and Chinese strategic missile forces are also tipped with MIRV capable thermonuclear warheads. Some of these systems like have a anti-ABM capability, apparently allowing them to overcome all current and future US Anti-missile systems. Sorry, but your teacher is mistaken.
 

Bonza

Super Moderator
Staff member
Sorry for the brief reply but I just wanted to second the recommendation of the documentary Trinity and Beyond. Very good documentary on nuclear weapons with excellent footage of nuclear tests undertaken throughout the Cold War. I know it's not exactly an answer to your question but if this topic interests you it is a great place to start. Not sure why your teacher believes thermonuclear weapons are banned, she may be confused as to the intent of one of the many treaties on the subject.
 

StobieWan

Super Moderator
Staff member
Trinity and Beyond is just awesome...

And yeah, plenty of thermonuclear stuff around for all to see- perhaps the teacher is confusing a class of weapons like the enhanced radiation devices like the so called neutron bomb?
 

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
So my physics teacher firmly believes that ALL thermonuclear weapons(Hydrogen) have been banned long time ago, because of their destructive force. I have never read such thing and always believed that modern larger nukes are basically all thermonuclear kind. I can't find anything about such ban online and i certianly can't find any proof of them being not banned either, i showed her the B61-s wiki page but she didn't believe it, she called her friend and was told that they were banned and so it went again... I think it has something to do with her age and the fact that she grew up in CCCP.
Oh and she isn't dumb, has doctorate from the university of moscow or something like that.

Also if someone could post some concrete proof that thermonuclears are not banned, would be so awesome since i told her i would find out and print some proof or something.

The only ban I am aware of is the testing of weapons, nuclear or thermonuclear, by the big five nuclear powers. Every other country that signed the non- proliferation is not supposed to develop them (or don't get caught). Today, weapons improvement is done via supercomputer modelling.
 

Abraham Gubler

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
The only nuclear weapons bans are the:

Partial Test Ban Treaty
Nuclear Non Proliferation Treaty
Interim Agreement on Offensive Arms (SALT I)
Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty
Strategic Arms Limitation Treaty (SALT II)
Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty
Strategic Arms Reduction Treaty (START I)
Strategic Arms Reduction Treaty II (START II)
Strategic Offensive Reductions Treaty (SORT or Moscow Treaty)
Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty (CTBT)
New START Treaty

None of these treaties prohibit types of nuclear warheads and certainly not Thermonuclear Bombs (aka Hydrogen, Fusion Bombs). Not even Neutron Bombs or Salted Bombs (Doomsday Bombs) have been prohibited or limited beyond the various restrictions on testing, proliferation, numbers and some delivery methods in the above treaties.
 

SABRE

Super Moderator
Verified Defense Pro
So my physics teacher firmly believes that ALL thermonuclear weapons(Hydrogen) have been banned long time ago, because of their destructive force. I have never read such thing and always believed that modern larger nukes are basically all thermonuclear kind. I can't find anything about such ban online and i certianly can't find any proof of them being not banned either, i showed her the B61-s wiki page but she didn't believe it, she called her friend and was told that they were banned and so it went again... I think it has something to do with her age and the fact that she grew up in CCCP.
Oh and she isn't dumb, has doctorate from the university of moscow or something like that.

Also if someone could post some concrete proof that thermonuclears are not banned, would be so awesome since i told her i would find out and print some proof or something.
Some times I find it so funny that many physics teachers are either unaware of global nuclear weapon politics or are willfully ignorant. Some are even willfully misguiding in this regard.

USA & Russia continue to maintain good number of thermonuclear devices. Only some fraction of them were retired after the Cold War & that was because they had become technologically inferior. China also continues to maintain a stockpile.

Currently US has:

* W76, W78, W87 & W88 for ICBMs (Minuteman III). All warheads are thermonuclear.

  • At least two of these are also mountable or are mounted on Trident SLBMs.
  • Older W87 from retired Peacekeepr missiles are being diverted to some older operational Minuteman III missiles.
  • W76 is going through life extension program instead of retirement.

* B61 & B83 thermonuclear bombs also still seem to be in service with USAF, mounted on B2 & B52 bombers.

The only problem US nuclear forces are facing right now are the replacement for these vintage warheads & bombs. Almost all of them are from Cold War era. The Reliable Replacement Program for them got cancelled in 2009.

You can always refer to Wikipedia for more information & so can your teacher if he/she are not so uptight about it. But much more excellent source would be Stephen Younger's book "Bomb: A New History." Younger is former U.S. nuclear warhead scientist.
 

Daryl

New Member
An interesting thread. I think I can add a little extra dimension. Your teacher and her source may be aware the warheads are being radically reduced by treaty. However, they are not banned. Furthermore, the reduction is by treaty between the US and Russia, which means anybody else can do what they want. The New START treaty of 2011 will eventually limit the US and Russia to 1550 deployed, (meaning active) warheads. Both countries have about 2,000 now. However, it did not limit inactive warheads, which means old warheads also exist which can be "re-fueled", so to speak, and made active but even then each country only has about 8,000 of these decaying warheads. In the mid 80s there were almost 70,000 warheads though so this is really good. Not so good is that 1550 bombs x 2 is still enough to destroy a good deal of humanity.

What is not being noted here is that there are other countries with bombs, or making them. The NPT treaty allowed the UK, France and China to also have warheads, although each seems to have 300 or less. Furthermore, Not Every Country signed the non-prolif. pact, such as India and Pakistan, and they developed warheads and may have 100 or so. North Korea opted out and has something, perhaps a fission bomb or a really poor thermonuc, but they probably have less than 10. Then there is Israel, which should not have any but nobody believes that. Of course Iran has been busy too. On top of that, the USA shares a few of it's quota with NATO countries; Belgium, Germany, Italy, Netherlands and Turkey.

Now, armed with this information is it a good idea to argue with the teacher? Is it ever a good idea to humiliate someone who dedicated their life to helping others? I would hope that the most you would do is slip a note under the door and the best option might be to let it drop. Course, that may just be me talking.
 

adam144

New Member
Sorry if this was already said, but your teacher is probably thinking of the agreements limiting nuclear weapon yield.

I don't recall what it is off hand right now, but maybe like 400 kt
 
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