AKASH SAM:India's BMD???

[Jacob]

Does India's Akash SAM has the capability of developing into a potent Ballistic Missile Defence??
Although a short range of 20-30 kms,Akash missile system is reportedly showing accuracy & precision in hitting targets such as the Lakshya UAVs.
Any ideas??

 

[srirangan]

Here's a related news item Jacob; hopefully you'll find it informative.

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A breakthrough – the new Akash missile test launch demonstrates its capability to destroy any incoming Pakistani or Chinese missiles
http://www.indiadaily.com/editorial/12-01b-04.asp

Precision guidance and software driven adaptive control required Akash missile test fire again. Silently India has achieved something that is creating panic in Pakistani military.

The Akash missile test had a very strategic and secret plan of tests. It made sure appropriate positioning of many Akash missiles all over the country is capable of intercepting and destroying any nuclear capable missile way above the ground. India plans to perfect the technology and may provide some sort of nuclear umbrella the country needs badly to protect against Pakistan and China.

India on Tuesday test-fired a short-range anti-aircraft missile from a site in Orissa, defence sources said. This was the second test of the missile named Akash, which means Sky in Hindi, in four days. The last successful test was on Friday and came a day after rival Pakistan tested a short-range nuclear-capable missile. The sources said Akash was fired from a mobile launcher at 11:57 am at the Chandipur-on-Sea testing site, 200 kilometres (125 miles) northeast of Orissa's state capital Bhubaneswar. "It successfully hit the target dropped from a pilotless target aircraft," a defence source said. The 700-kilogram (1,540-pound) Akash can carry a 60-kilogram warhead and is designed to travel 27 kilometres (17 miles). It can strike several targets simultaneously. Akash is one of five missiles being developed by India's state-run Defence Research and Development Organisation.

 

[ajay_ijn]

Does India's Akash SAM has the capability of developing into a potent Ballistic Missile Defence??

No way,Akash has a very limited or no BMD capability.I am talking about the Akash version developed and tested recently.

But DRDO is looking to upgrade Akash to BMD capability by having technology transfer of systems like Arrow,Patriot or S-300.

DRDO does not have enough technology to develop a BMD system that is why they are looking for technology help from other countries like Isreal,US etc.

Although a short range of 20-30 kms,Akash missile system is reportedly showing accuracy & precision in hitting targets such as the Lakshya UAVs.
Any ideas??

Ballistic missile is far more capable than any UAV or cruise missile.
Its always a challenge to sucessfully defend against a Ballistic missile.
Especially the Intercontinental Ballistic Missiles.
In my opinion ICBM's are the most powerful weapons on the earth.

 

[srirangan]

Ballistic missile is far more capable than any UAV or cruise missile.

BM's are more vulnerable to shields than cruise missiles, so how is a 500km ranged ballistic missile "far more capable" than a 500km ranged cruise missile?

 

[ajay_ijn]

The Akash missile test had a very strategic and secret plan of tests. It made sure appropriate positioning of many Akash missiles all over the country is capable of intercepting and destroying any nuclear capable missile way above the ground. India plans to perfect the technology and may provide some sort of nuclear umbrella the country needs badly to protect against Pakistan and China.

Any Nuclear capable Missile?This statement is too exaggerating.
First of all what has nuclear capability to do with Intecepting the Missile?

So if Akash intercepted a target dropped from Lakshya then it capable of intercepting any kind Missile?
By Missile I am talking about is the Ballistic Missile.

Akash is surely a good SAM but how can we expect so much from DRDO as it the first SAM developed by India.It might have limited ATBM capability i mean it might be capable to provide defence against SRBM's.
But true ATBM capability means atleast intecepting a Ballistic missile of range 1000km.

Below is a article on Indian SAM's.
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Info/BMD.html
Akash will surely be capable to replace S-125(SA-3b)pechora which has become very old and is the back bone of Indian SAM network.

 

[srirangan]

I'll agree with Ajay, that source does tend to exaggerate.

 

[ajay_ijn]

BM's are more vulnerable to shields than cruise missiles, so how is a 500km ranged ballistic missile "far more capable" than a 500km ranged cruise missile?

Ballistic Missiles go into Space and can gather very high speed than a normal Cruise Missile.
BMD systems have very much less time for intercepting the Ballistic Missile and detecting depends on various other systems like over-horizon RADAR's,satellites based RADAR's and heat sensors which I think India is not having.
I see only one system in india capable of detecting ballistic missiles from Long ranges and that is Isreali GreenPine RADAR.Two Greenpine's are deployed in india.

There are many other factors which makes ballistic missile more capable.
Missile Threat is very good website for BMD.
http://www.missilethreat.com/overview/index.html

 

[srirangan]

As far as I understand missile systems, ballistic missiles are shot up and they rely on their initial projectile calculations to hit the target. Which means they spend longer time in air, and follow a more predictable tragectory, which makes'em more susceptable to defensive missiles.

Cruise missiles travel almost parallel to the ground and follow a path which is harder to predict. Just because ballistic missiles go higher, doesn't mean they are less predictable, hence it is in my understanding that ballistic missiles are targets for missile defence systems, and not cruise missiles.

This is obviously from my own understanding, and me being just a college student don't have any authority to comment on this matter. Maybe the other experts here could clarify.

- Edit -

For cryin' out loud, the very name BMD stands for ballistic missile defence and not cruise missile defence. lol

 

[ajay_ijn]

As far as I understand missile systems, ballistic missiles are shot up and they rely on their initial projectile calculations to hit the target. Which means they spend longer time in air, and follow a more predictable tragectory, which makes'em more susceptable to defensive missiles.

True ballistic missiles are shot up into space.In other words we can say Ballistic Missile just go up and then fall down.

But ballistic missiles Also go up into space.The advantage is there is no air-resistance and speed of the missile will increase.
When ballistic missiles go upto the Max height and then begin to fall on the earth,its speed will tremendously increase becoz of earth's
gravitational force (9.8m/s).The speed will slightly decrease when they re-enter into space but speed is enough to surprise Defences.

The higher the ballistic missiles go into space the faster they will get becoz they will get more time get faster.

To make Ballistic missiles go higher they need more fuel and a more powerful engine.
ICBM can gather speed as much as 15000 miles per hour (7km/sec).
Just imagine anything at speed of 7km/sec.
Before u blink your eye ICBM's will unleash their destruction.

rely on their initial projectile calculations to hit the target. Which means they spend longer time in air, and follow a more predictable tragectory, which makes'em more susceptable to defensive missiles.

Guy when we can't detect ballistic missiles easily then where is the question of intercepting it.
The major weakness of ballistic missile is in its boost phase during which it can be intercepted easily,Once its begins the final stage i.e re-entering the atmosphere it becomes very tough to intecept it.
But u need Satellite based sensors,Space Based LASER and ABL to intercept ballistic missile in the boost phase.
Only US and Russia have some such capabilities.

Its easy to intercept a Ballistic Missile in boost phase and slightly tough to detect but detcetion depends again on geographical factors.

Its easy to detect a ballistic missile in terminal phase and u will have only seconds to intercept but detection depends on RADAR.If ballistic Missiles deploy evasive maneuver and counter measures ,It becomes even tough.

Boost phase intercept is always better than terminal phase interception.


Cruise Missiles on the other hand goes only in atmosphere and do not have speed advantage compared to ballistic missiles.
But they can fly low,there by avoiding RADAR detection and can create problems.

Better visit this site Missile threat,It provides a detailed info on BMD etc.
http://www.missilethreat.com/overview/index.html

 

[rajupaki]

what is the max intersept altitude of akash?

 

[ajay_ijn]

what is the max intersept altitude of akash?

The max altitude of akash is 15km.
Its range is 27-30km.
But DRDO is trying to increase the range of akash to 60km and integrate it with S-300PMU to provide ATBM capability.

 

[Red aRRow]

Integrate it with the S300 PMU ???? Doesn't the S300 have its own missiles. Sorry my knowledge on this subject is really lacking. Somebody fill me in please.
I mean when the S300 has its own missiles and projectiles then why does India want to integrate Akash's with it??

 

[ajay_ijn]

Integrate it with the S300 PMU ???? Doesn't the S300 have its own missiles. Sorry my knowledge on this subject is really lacking. Somebody fill me in please.
I mean when the S300 has its own missiles and projectiles then why does India want to integrate Akash's with it??

I don't know exactly what do they mean by integrating Akash With S-300.
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/MISSILES/Akash.html

Officials have said that the missile will also undergo user trials with the Army for integration with the S-300PMU-1 anti-tactical ballistic missile systems, of which the Army has purchased an unspecified number, as well as with AEW aircraft. Plans exist for a navalised version in VLS mode.

I think they are trying to imrpove the Akash SAM upto the standards of S-300 Missile.

 

[Rolex]

HI All,
I happened to read a PDF(acrobat) file named 'Theater missile defense and South Asia:a volatile mix'.. According to this report, the srbms and irbms have a re-entry velocity around 1.5-4.0 machs...
Not very hard to intercept....
And the drdo scientists have been working on the anti-missile role of akash since 1997...
With the improvement in range and alt, the akash sys can help india get that much needed Umberlla...
Guys, how do I upload a PDF(acrobat) file...? :help so that i can give you the source...

 

[XEROX]

They should intergrate the Green Pine with the Arrow-2, dont know what they should use to intergrate the Rajendra radar - PAC-3 maybe?? :

 

[ajay_ijn]

They should intergrate the Green Pine with the Arrow-2, dont know what they should use to intergrate the Rajendra radar - PAC-3 maybe??

Are u joking? Greenpine is a part of Arrow-2 ATBM system.
The US industries were not involved in manufacturing GreenPine that is why India was able to buy two Greenpine RADAR's otherwise they would have even blocked Greenpine.

In my opinion to provide full Early warning for India ,5 to 7 greenpine RADAR's are needed.
Two Greenpines are currently rumoured to be deployed in rajastan border.
They provide Detection upto 500km and can track ballistic missiles at speeds of 3000km/hr :eek :eek ,perfect Early warning RADAR's for Ballistic Missile Defence.
The advantage would be the detection of Pak Ballistic Missiles as soon as they launch and Can be intercepted in boost stage only Becoz GreenPine can detect deep into enemy's area if Deployed in the border.
If India got Long range BMD's Like S-300PMU ,Then the dream of India's BMD will be completed. :india

 

[XEROX]

Shows what i know about ATBMs- not much

 

[Rolex]

Hey you know how the arrow missile sys works...? The arrow missile is not a fire and forget type... When the missile is launched it is not locked to the incoming missile... The projectile is detected during the passive period of the ballistic missile and then anti-missile(arrow) is locked on to it at the terminal phase... :smokingc:

The advantage would be the detection of Pak Ballistic Missiles as soon as they launch and Can be intercepted in boost stage only Becoz GreenPine can detect deep into enemy's area if Deployed in the border.
If India got Long range BMD's Like S-300PMU

And Ajay...
S-300pmu is a ATMD sys which is used to intercept at the terminal phase... It does not have the velocity to take on the ballistic missile at the boost phase nor the boost phase of the tactical(SRBM/IRBM) ballistic missile is that long...

 

[Rolex]

And about the Greenpine radar., I doubt the defense people will put them at the borders... Coz they are more useful in shielding important cities like Delhi and mumbai... May be even BANGLORE... Moreover the first target in case of a war would be these ones...
The Israelis claim to have detected the projectiles of the Scuds that hit Kuwait's supermarket... Good enough range for us

 

[ajay_ijn]

And Ajay...
S-300pmu is a ATMD sys which is used to intercept at the terminal phase... It does not have the velocity to take on the ballistic missile at the boost phase nor the boost phase of the tactical(SRBM/IRBM) ballistic missile is that long...

Ballistic Missile can be easily intercepted in a boost phase compared to terminal phase or Mid-course phase.
Ballistic missiles have lowest velocity in their boost phase.

SRBM and IRBM have short boost phase but The BMD must have very low reaction time so that they can intercept at boost phase.
Is is being said that it takes 10min for a ballistic Missile to reach Delhi from Isalamabad.
So the BMD system must have less than 1 min reaction time.
Intercepting Ballistic Missiles at terminal phase is tough becoz of their High Velocity will Surprise the defences.
S-300PMU is to intercept at terminal phase but it can also intercept in boost phase.
http://www.missilethreat.com/overview/stages.html

In the best case anti-missile interception, the missile is destroyed during boost phase and its warhead or warheads will never reach terminal phase. Gravity will cause them to fall back, unexploded, either on the area whence they were launched, or on the North Polar regions in the event of a Russian or Chinese attack. Obviously, if we want to defend the United States against the ballistic missiles, the boost phase is the best point at which to do it. The challenge becomes greater the farther into its flight the missile travels

http://www.missilethreat.com/overview/destroyphasebyphase.html

Killing boost phase missiles does not require that interceptors possess either sophisticated guidance systems or a particularly lethal punch. It does require that interceptors get to very high speed very fast. Since boost phase missiles are big and slow, the interceptor can home in on the radar energy that the missile reflects. In boost phase, a sophisticated heat seeking guidance system is not needed. Having one can actually be troublesome, because the guidance would have to be programmed to hit not the hottest point—the exhaust below the missile—but rather somewhere above. That requires accurate knowledge of what various kinds of missiles look like to heat sensors. A simple radar sensor is actually better.