IRAN Nuclear Crisis News and Discussions

[Focus]

My Views: I have deleted half of the article as it was very long, visit the link to read in full.

Before Gulf War II in Feburary 2003, German Intelligence had warned that there was nothing to the report that Iraq was making Biological WMDs in the truck mounted labs...........and in the end their intelligence was proven right. So we have to respect German sources of information. [ Admin Edited ] They are giggling right now but will cry only when they themselves are targeted for comprehensive bombing. Why does not the world understand simple logic???????????????


http://www.upi.com/SecurityTerrorism...0-112208-8968r

German media: U.S. prepares Iran strike

By MARTIN WALKER
UPI Editor

WASHINGTON, Dec. 30 (UPI) -- The Bush administration is preparing its NATO allies for a possible military strike against suspected nuclear sites in Iran in the New Year, according to German media reports, reinforcing similar earlier suggestions in the Turkish media.

The Berlin daily Der Tagesspiegel this week quoted "NATO intelligence sources" who claimed that the NATO allies had been informed that the United States is currently investigating all possibilities of bringing the mullah-led regime into line, including military options. This "all options are open" line has been President George W Bush's publicly stated policy throughout the past 18 months.
But the respected German weekly Der Spiegel notes "What is new here is that Washington appears to be dispatching high-level officials to prepare its allies for a possible attack rather than merely implying the possibility as it has repeatedly done during the past year."

The German news agency DDP cited "Western security sources" to claim that CIA Director Porter Goss asked Turkey's premier Recep Tayyip Erdogan to provide political and logistic support for air strikes against Iranian nuclear and military targets. Goss, who visited Ankara and met Erdogan on Dec. 12, was also reported to have to have asked for special cooperation from Turkish intelligence to help prepare and monitor the operation.

The DDP report added that Goss had delivered to the Turkish prime minister and his security aides a series of dossiers, one on the latest status of Iran's nuclear development and another containing intelligence on new links between Iran and al-Qaida.

DDP cited German security sources who added that the Turks had been assured of a warning in advance if and when the military strikes took place, and had also been given "a green light" to mount their own attacks on the bases in Iran of the PKK, (Kurdish Workers party), which Turkey sees as a separatist group responsible for terrorist attacks inside Turkey.

 

[Dr Phobus]

Re: Iran: Here come the US Bombers

I would not be surprised, however this action if taken will have I feel more EU backing, after all its the EU not USA that will be directly under missile threat from a belligerent and nuclear Iran. Personally, I do not want to see such a scenario. So, yes, there is a truth in this article, the US war college already conducted a study and realized that the IAF would be unable to really conduct such a long range strike. Also, only the USAF be the earth penetrating weapons needed to "reach" the buried Iranian nuclear program.

Happy new year

 

[Focus]

Re: Iran: Here come the US Bombers

Why do forget that Gulf War I in 1991 was a trap laid by US on the pressure from Israel to remove Saddam who was gaining lots of power and Gulf War II of 2003 was again same thing, pressure from NeoCon Jewish interests in Washington, this time to remove Saddam and establish a prostitute minded nation (like Jordan) in middle east and ofcourse capture the oil reserves of Iraq. Except for Saddam's removal the other two have not come to be real....atleast as per what average among us know from media. Now these conspirators are busy again targeting a new country Iran. EU has little liking for the Israel/Jews except for the UK which tows the US line for any reason....so please do not drag EU into the mess that idiots are planning. If EU tows the line of America's crimes then EU will be targeted by hostile actions.

It is extremely baffling to consider the aftershocks of attack on Iran on the global peace and economy and especially the struggling humanity in the poor nations.............don't forget the price of oil.

While Germany did crimes in WWII, I have a lot of respect of German culture which is full of honor and self pride. I have nothing against the Jews either, but if they repeatedly conspire and act to destroy nations and populations, then their actions need to be rectified and contained. Also, Islamic nations have to understand what is more valueable, hate for Israel or care for their own people in the Arab world....wars are seldom a solution to issues among nations....Iran-Iraq war is a good example.

 

[wildcat1]

Re: Iran: Here come the US Bombers

The real question I have is, why does the western world pick on little countries (rogue countries) when they're trying to build a nuclear arsenal? Who made the US and western allies the global cops in limiting other country's right to bear arms?

If the US/allies is so intent in allowing dangerous countries from building nukes, why haven't they done anything about the far more dangerous Chinese armed forces that is currently growing to the extent that it will equal or better US/allied forces in the next two years.

Facts supporting China is the future great threat to the western world:
China has been linked in downing (accidental they call it) one of intelligence gathering naval aircraft with full crew intact (returning the aircraft in pieces) to the US afterwards. They're also the only country threatening a peaceful free country such as Taiwan. They have no respect for human rights. Furthermore, they have been linked in theft of US nuclear technology in the past.

The fact that the western world is still dealing, selling military goods and doing business with China seem hypocritical.

If the western allies wants to have global peace or less threat of imminent wars, they should focus themselves and have a plan for China instead of focusing excessive energy, resources, and money dealing with smaller and weaker governments.

 

[WAR]

Re: Iran: Here come the US Bombers

I have gone through the entire story via link. Well, a lot can be said, but I would confine myself to the following:

(1) There is a question mark on the authenticity of the facts mentioned in the story.

(2) There is a propaganda warfare going on, especially in the western media to build and construct a certain specific point of view.

(3) Earlier, in old days, the job of the media was to report the "FACTS", and the news was regarded as the reflection of the society, region etc.

(4) Now, the media tells you as to -- What to think now? Meaning they control your mind, judgement, thought and even your inner self.

(5) The point is that, one should not allow oneself to be taken as granted. The objective analysis of the information fed to us from time to time, must be crossed check.

Finally, if US attack Iran in near future, it would open a pandora box of activities which the society regards as "terrorists acts". It would be like adding fuel to the fire. There is already a lot of resentment in Iraq and Afghanistan against US and allied forces, which they regard as "occupation forces". I ask "Would the world be a safer place after eliminating Iran?"

 

[Focus]

Re: Iran: Here come the US Bombers

"The objective analysis of the information fed to us from time to time, must be crossed check."

The objective analysis is the Israelis cannot sleep in peace when Iranian President is barking venom and threatening their genocide by his nukes. Similar venom talk and threats were being made by Saddam in 1990 before he fell into the trap. Any threats and childish talk will only strenghten the case for US to attack Iran and leave it crippling under sanctions after that. Iran has every right to own nukes and every weapon that anyother nation in the world has, including US. They should however show added maturity upon gaining added strenght of nukes. Islamic nations should forget about Israel and concentrate on their own people and lives. Other than Saudi, Kuwait, UAE, most of the Arab world is outright third world bracket in terms of basic human needs.

 

[Aussie Digger]

Re: Iran: Here come the US Bombers

"The objective analysis of the information fed to us from time to time, must be crossed check."

The objective analysis is the Israelis cannot sleep in peace when Iranian President is barking venom and threatening their genocide by his nukes. Similar venom talk and threats were being made by Saddam in 1990 before he fell into the trap. Any threats and childish talk will only strenghten the case for US to attack Iran and leave it crippling under sanctions after that. Iran has every right to own nukes and every weapon that anyother nation in the world has, including US. They should however show added maturity upon gaining added strenght of nukes. Islamic nations should forget about Israel and concentrate on their own people and lives. Other than Saudi, Kuwait, UAE, most of the Arab world is outright third world bracket in terms of basic human needs.

I see. So the US tricked Iraq into invading Kuwait in 1990, eh? Marvelous deduction. Those NeoCons must be shaking in their (jack) boots, right now. The TRUTH has been revealed AND (of course) by none other than that most respectable of publications, Der Spiegel.

Focus, if you think Der Spiegel is respectable, than you must equate the factuality of the writings in the USA's "National Inquirer" as a similar standard to the level of proof required in Criminal Courts...

Der Spiegel is an utter rag. Quoting it, makes you lose just about every ounce of credibility you might have had. It's Nothing personal from me, it's just that you could get more aacurate info from conspiracy sites on the web, than from THAT magazine...

 

[Focus]

Re: Iran: Here come the US Bombers

"I see. So the US tricked Iraq into invading Kuwait in 1990, eh? Marvelous deduction. Those NeoCons must be shaking in their (jack) boots, right now."

Come up with real facts Anglo Saxon Boy! rather than coming down to the personal level and passing judgements about news agencies. Flood gates of chaos, mayheim and terror will let open if US/UK/Israel/NATO attack Iran. I would not doubt if Iran has not already bought 'ready to go' nukes from North Korea or Pakistan. It already has long range missiles. All this talk and threats might just be an act to have the world become mentally adjusted to the fact that Iran can have nukes also. Hope peace prevails before total madness comes out in open. Will the Israeli paranoia result in American bankruptcy or do they really want to get bankrupt because most of their debt is owned by Chinese and Japanese anyways?

 

[Aussie Digger]

Re: Iran: Here come the US Bombers

"I see. So the US tricked Iraq into invading Kuwait in 1990, eh? Marvelous deduction. Those NeoCons must be shaking in their (jack) boots, right now."

Come up with real facts Anglo Saxon Boy! rather than coming down to the personal level and passing judgements about news agencies. Flood gates of chaos, mayheim and terror will let open if US/UK/Israel/NATO attack Iran. I would not doubt if Iran has not already bought 'ready to go' nukes from North Korea or Pakistan. It already has long range missiles. All this talk and threats might just be an act to have the world become mentally adjusted to the fact that Iran can have nukes also. Hope peace prevails before total madness comes out in open. Will the Israeli paranoia result in American bankruptcy or do they really want to get bankrupt because most of their debt is owned by Chinese and Japanese anyways?

Where are the Mods around here? We have an insane person (or troll perhaps) loose on the boards...

You might not have a great command of English focus, but your posts do not make the slightest bit of sense. Are you perhaps drunk? IF US/UK/ISRAEL/NATO attack Iran, Iran's military capability would be destroyed in days. If Iran were to resort to the use of Nuclear weapons (should they even have them), there will be no "flood gates of chaos, mayheim and terror" unleashed. What will be unleashed is the combined nuclear capability of the US, UK and possibly Israel.

My Allah protect the people of Iran from their own leaders should that occur, because it is they who will cause all of Iran to turn into a giant sheet of Trinitite...

 

[knightrider4]

Re: Iran: Here come the US Bombers

I dont often post anymore but I must say this thread got my attention. I reckon we should drop cases of good Australian beer all over Iran that would sort em out. All that heat and dust and no beer no wonder it's a little lulu down that way.nfloorl:

 

[webmaster]

Re: Iran: Here come the US Bombers

Focus has been banned for using his household language on the boards.

Folks, lets express our opinion and "good" thoughts with some respect and responsiblity. Every jackass on this planet can come up with smart ass comments like focus did and there is nothing great about degrading other countries where you can write your thoughts with better words in english vocabulary and still make sense and look professional on the forums where you are interacting with different people from around the world. All we ask is give the other person proper respect that you think YOU deserve from others and often times DEMAND from others.

 

[Crusader2000]

Re: Iran: Here come the US Bombers

The threat of attack from the US could just as well as be another way of applying pressure on Iran! (with the EU's approval) Personally, I don't see the US starting another conflict. Its has way to much on its plate already. On the otherhand I don't EU growing ba@#s anytime soon either?: So, guess why Iran is being so defiant! Because it can and it knows we can't do anything about it...........or at very least won't.

 

[gf0012-aust]

Re: Iran: Here come the US Bombers

the far more dangerous Chinese armed forces that is currently growing to the extent that it will equal or better US/allied forces in the next two years.

I'm not going to bother responding to the "Der Spiegel" claim as it doesn't warrant attention. Der Speigel is about as factual as Pravda is. They focus on roswell and bigfoot type articles.

As for China being able to demonstrate parity with the US/allied forces within 2 years. Where abouts do you think that China can demonstrate close equivalency?

In all of the areas I work in, in all of the dealings I have with various technologies, I can't see China getting remotely close to US parity within 15 years - and that assumes that the US goes into lockdown for the same period.

China is a green water navy
China has a landlocked airforce
China cannot engage in expeditionary warfare at 90km - let alone at an intercontinental level, If she us unable to challenge Taiwan 90km away until probably 2008 - then what demonstrable strides are there to indicate parity with US forces within 2 years?
China has no spaced based ISR inegtrated into the "force proper"
China has no capacity to project, persist or apply safe presence at beyond landbased air
She has no long range airborne ASW
She lacks persistent AWACS/AEW&C's
She lacks 2nd strike capability at a fleet level
She has one nuke - which has not been blue watered for the last 5 years
She has no structured AirWarfare capability for both her main fleets
Her submarines are no match for Sth Koreas - or Japans, let alone the US
She is landlocked on one side - that means that SBISR has a maximum advantage in racetracking satellites across all of her water based access points - China is an open room as such.
She does not have as many nukes as Israel - the US has literally - and I mean literally, over 5000 times the number of nukes as well as yield as China has. In real terms, 2 USN boomers have more destructive power on hand than China has in total - and China has no capacity to track and hold those submarines. How many boomers does the USN have? It should make the PLAN pause quite a bit.
She has no fast transports required for expeditionary warfare.

Comments about Chinese parity are highly optimistic. China is a regional superpower with greenwater limitations, minimal capacity to protect her shores from a concentrated submerged attack, and definitely is unable to move troops in a supportable fashion in any long range and contested area.

Nukes don't define absolute power as they are a last resort weapon - and in her case she has too few to effect a stoppage on the US. She'd be turned into the largest glass plate in history - and one suspects that Chinese mil planners know that as well.

 

[Hussain]

Re: Iran: Here come the US Bombers

I agree with Gf0012 that at present China's military machine is no way as capable as the US. However in a localised war in and around China I think the Chinese military will be able to give the US a run for its money. However at present there doesn't seem to be any reason for China to start a conflict (except over Taiwan) and the US is certainly not in a position to start on China due to its war on terrorism and the growing dispute with Iran.

What must be of concern to the US will be defence acquisition by Iran of both Russian and Chinese military hardware. If both China and Russia are willing to provide Iran with their latest military hardware the reason, apart from money, would be to show their displeasure at US dominance in the world.

 

[PhillTaj]

Re: Iran: Here come the US Bombers

Is the threat to the USN all that severe from China? The Chinese may have all kibds of long range russian cruise missiles, but they lack any sort of capability to guide them to their US Navy targets.

 

[gf0012-aust]

Re: Iran: Here come the US Bombers

However in a localised war in and around China I think the Chinese military will be able to give the US a run for its money.

It would be absolute madness for any country to go into a local ground war with China. At a local level their logistics problems for warfighting are considerably less - I don't think the US has any qualms in admitting that waging a continental war would be idiotic. The only country in the past capable of fielding a stronger land army was the Russians - and they'd ve hard pressed to do it now. They can't even stop chinese traders from leaking into Siberia.

However at present there doesn't seem to be any reason for China to start a conflict (except over Taiwan) and the US is certainly not in a position to start on China due to its war on terrorism and the growing dispute with Iran.

In real terms, I can't see the US or China coming to blows. Taiwan is the wild card. A failure by China to manage North Korea (and it is an unwelcome but necessary burden that does fall on China) might be another - but I still see it as manageable.

What must be of concern to the US will be defence acquisition by Iran of both Russian and Chinese military hardware. If both China and Russia are willing to provide Iran with their latest military hardware the reason, apart from money, would be to show their displeasure at US dominance in the world.

Iran only becomes a problem if she decides that she wants to play war with Israel. Then the dynamics change. At a raw level, Iran buying Russian or Chinese kit does not alter any balance as Iran has been seen as a lost cause since the demise of the Shah. Although the new Iranian President is a worry as he seems far more intent at having a controversial public profile. The prev was less vocal, and the intelligentsia in Iran were actually far more pro western in the moderate interaction sense.

The best thing is for Iran to be ignored. She will create a headache for everyone if not.

 

[gf0012-aust]

Re: Iran: Here come the US Bombers

Is the threat to the USN all that severe from China? The Chinese may have all kibds of long range russian cruise missiles, but they lack any sort of capability to guide them to their US Navy targets.

China is incapable of fighting meaningfully at a blue water level. She does not have the fleet mix, she does not have asset mix, she does not have persistence or the logistics to make it work.

She does not have the satellite constellations needed to be able to use modern precision weapons systems. At best she has regional satellite clusters - but nothing at the 24hr saturation and overwatch level needed to fight at an intercontinental level.

Gallileo will not provide the footprint either - and Gallileo is years away from proper global saturation.

 

[aaaditya]

Re: Iran: Here come the US Bombers

I'm not going to bother responding to the "Der Spiegel" claim as it doesn't warrant attention. Der Speigel is about as factual as Pravda is. They focus on roswell and bigfoot type articles.

As for China being able to demonstrate parity with the US/allied forces within 2 years. Where abouts do you think that China can demonstrate close equivalency?

In all of the areas I work in, in all of the dealings I have with various technologies, I can't see China getting remotely close to US parity within 15 years - and that assumes that the US goes into lockdown for the same period.

China is a green water navy
China has a landlocked airforce
China cannot engage in expeditionary warfare at 90km - let alone at an intercontinental level, If she us unable to challenge Taiwan 90km away until probably 2008 - then what demonstrable strides are there to indicate parity with US forces within 2 years?
China has no spaced based ISR inegtrated into the "force proper"
China has no capacity to project, persist or apply safe presence at beyond landbased air
She has no long range airborne ASW
She lacks persistent AWACS/AEW&C's
She lacks 2nd strike capability at a fleet level
She has one nuke - which has not been blue watered for the last 5 years
She has no structured AirWarfare capability for both her main fleets
Her submarines are no match for Sth Koreas - or Japans, let alone the US
She is landlocked on one side - that means that SBISR has a maximum advantage in racetracking satellites across all of her water based access points - China is an open room as such.
She does not have as many nukes as Israel - the US has literally - and I mean literally, over 5000 times the number of nukes as well as yield as China has. In real terms, 2 USN boomers have more destructive power on hand than China has in total - and China has no capacity to track and hold those submarines. How many boomers does the USN have? It should make the PLAN pause quite a bit.
She has no fast transports required for expeditionary warfare.

Comments about Chinese parity are highly optimistic. China is a regional superpower with greenwater limitations, minimal capacity to protect her shores from a concentrated submerged attack, and definitely is unable to move troops in a supportable fashion in any long range and contested area.

Nukes don't define absolute power as they are a last resort weapon - and in her case she has too few to effect a stoppage on the US. She'd be turned into the largest glass plate in history - and one suspects that Chinese mil planners know that as well.

by the way gf on what basis is a navy classified as the blue,green or brown or any other cloured water navy?

also what coloured navies are the japanese,south korean,north korean and taiwanese .

 

[gf0012-aust]

Re: Iran: Here come the US Bombers

by the way gf on what basis is a navy classified as the blue,green or brown or any other cloured water navy?

also what coloured navies are the japanese,south korean,north korean and taiwanese .

brown = riverine or internal small craft for local water ways
green = coastal or littorals
blue = 2 standards

cold war standard was any country that was fielding a full autonomous battlefleet concurrently in all of the worlds 5 major oceans. It also indicated a country that was able to deploy a full autonomous and combat capable fleet to protect any distant (and that refers to transoceanic) dependancies or territorial obligations.

nowadays it refers to a country that is able to deploy and sustain a full autonomous battlefleet at the intercontinental level on a regular basis. that usually denotes permanency in those waters as well. eg in Real terms the USN has 20 (12-13 x CSF's and 8 x ESF's/ARG's) full battle ready fleets where they have a permanent presence in each of the worlds major waterways. Russia used to have 4, but now has 3. (Black Sea, Northern and eastern)

A blue-water navy is also able autonomously project a countries capacity to defend its shipping lanes and spheres of interest without compromising the capoacity of the nation to defend her immediate national geography. (ie continental protection as well as intercontinental projection and protection)
Transcontinental protection doesn't normally qualify as blue-water - but it does denote latency.

The Japanese and Sth Koreans are thus regarded as latent bluewater as they are regularly deploying full fleet assets for complex independant and interdependant fleet exercises and engagements such as RIMPAC.

Taiwan is in real terms a greenwater navy only due to geographical strategic issues. She has no need to deploy at a bluewater level as her threat matrix more or less is transnational (even though there is 90km between her and her most immediate contestable threat)

 

[fieldmarshal]

Re: Iran: Here come the US Bombers

I dont think any 1 has been able to grasp the real probem here and obviously have not been able to state a solution.
The reason why us is a hyperpower is due to its economic power or infact hamagony, it takes any sort threat or precived threat to its eco power very seriously n works to nutralise it or worst to ilimanate it.
Now y is the us blowing hot n cold all of a sudden on iran? the reason is simple n that has to do with the launch of the iranian oil bourse, which if successful will not just dent the us eco but will be the catalist which will lead to its downfall.
the us takes this iranian measure very seriously, iraq too was wanting to establish an iraqi oil bourse and that was the only reason y the us went to war with iraq.
the iranian bourse comes into force in march and the us will do any and every thing so that it does not come into force n if it does than it should fail.

At the same time due to a cia blunder the iranians have got hold of a list of all cia operatives inside iran so any sort of covert action by the us can be ruled out. The way left now is only overt action and bush is even working on a national draft, for whcih he tested the national sentiment a few months a go.

So yes the american bombers are on theri way.