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This is a discussion on Latvian Armed Forces and Security within the Geo-strategic Issues forum, part of the Global Defense & Military category; Originally Posted by Feanor Unlikely. The Georgians, under ideal geographic conditions, and dealing with a much weaker and less competent ...


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Old February 12th, 2017   #16
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Unlikely. The Georgians, under ideal geographic conditions, and dealing with a much weaker and less competent Russian military, nonetheless were smashed in mere days. And the Georgians had an overwhelming number advantage at the operational level. The best hope, the only real hope, the Baltics have is that NATO serves as adequate deterrence. And so far it has.
The Georgian armed forces were not the best in the world to say the least. Specialists think they just were not prepared for real military actions (and what is that, "overwhelming number advantage at the operational level"?).
Indeed you need to have better organization, hi-tech weapons and equipment and, very important, a big will to fight for your country in order to stand up against strong enemy. Indeed their governments are doing important things now, but much more should be done to build up a really strong armed forces, proper relations with NATO, etc.
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Old February 12th, 2017   #17
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The Georgian armed forces were not the best in the world to say the least. Specialists think they just were not prepared for real military actions (and what is that, "overwhelming number advantage at the operational level"?).
Russia had a single 2-lane mountain road into Georgia. Their ability to bring troops in was very limited, and vehicles breaking down on the road created traffic jams. Russian forces actually in South Ossetia and in combat were consistently outnumbered by Georgian forces in South Ossetia. However the Georgians didn't know it at the time.

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Indeed you need to have better organization, hi-tech weapons and equipment and, very important, a big will to fight for your country in order to stand up against strong enemy. Indeed their governments are doing important things now, but much more should be done to build up a really strong armed forces, proper relations with NATO, etc.
It's a complicated question. Bringing their defense spending to the 2% minimum requirement would certainly be a step in the right direction. Training for coordinated action with each other specifically, without other NATO forces present, would also be more realistic. However there's only so much they can do.
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Old February 12th, 2017   #18
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Do you any materials to support the claim that this was deliberate policy rather then a simple consequence of wartime displacement? What is the scale of deportations from the post-war period compared to the total population present? How many of the Balts moved elsewhere in the USSR for personal reasons rather then because they were deported at gun point? The mobility of population in the Soviet Union was much higher then it was in the old Russian Empire. I'm not arguing, I'm genuinely interested in what you base your opinions on.



Look at the figures from independence onward, in that case. The trend is still visible.
I'm not talking about the movement of people to jobs elsewhere in the USSR, but the arrests & forced deportations that accompanied the Soviet occupation & annexation in 1940-41 & the return of the Red Army in 1944-45, & continued up to the beginning of the 1950s. They're well-documented & only the numbers are disputed.

The first deportations, in 1940, seem to have involved relatively few people. Much greater numbers were deported in June 1941, just before the German invasion (so not triggered by it), & more in 1944-45 & 1949. Deportees were allowed to return after 1958, & many of those who were still alive did. There were still obstacles, though, such as being at the back of queues for housing, especially in 'sensitive' areas such as Narva & Dvinsk/Daugavpils.

The following numbers have been estimated for 1944-55, though as I said, they're disputed, & should be taken as an upper bound.
Estonia 124,000
Latvia 136,000
Lithuania 245,000
Pre-war populations of ethnic Estonians & Latvians & Lithuanians, in thousands were -
Estonians 993 (1934) (Russians 94) 1989: 963 & 475
Latvians 1473 (1935) (Russians 206) 1989: 1388 & 906

Lithuania didn't have an influx of Russians on the scale of the others, so it's not such an issue there, & inconveniently, it also didn't have a census after 1923, & that was for a smaller area than the current state. It didn't include Vilnius, for example.
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Old February 14th, 2017   #19
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...Speaking on Latvian national television on January 28, 2016, Bergmanis reminded the public that his Russian counterpart, Sergey Shoigu, announced the Kremlin’s plans to sculpture three divisions in western Russia this year...
Also, It seems a new aviation wing is being formed in western Russia (Shatalovo, Smolenskaya Oblast). Probably it will consist of SU-34 (suitable for bombing at long distances) and reconnaissance SU-24MP and An-30.
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Old March 11th, 2017   #20
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It would be interesting for Latvian army to change their 100 mm Škoda vz53 field gun for DENEL 105 mm light weight Light Experimental Ordnance (LEO). It is capable for direct fire and can be used as a howitzer. It has extended range comparing with the common 105mm guns as well. DENEL also provide a turret based on this gun for self-propelled howitzers. (DENEL is a South African company).

P.S. 100 mm Skoda guns can be solved to Ukraine
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Old March 12th, 2017   #21
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It would be interesting for Latvian army to change their 100 mm Škoda vz53 field gun for DENEL 105 mm light weight Light Experimental Ordnance (LEO). It is capable for direct fire and can be used as a howitzer. It has extended range comparing with the common 105mm guns as well. DENEL also provide a turret based on this gun for self-propelled howitzers. (DENEL is a South African company).

P.S. 100 mm Skoda guns can be solved to Ukraine
What would the point be? They have a bunch of multi-caliber artillery that they have problems supplying with shells already. And you want to add another type to the mix? With imported ammo?
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Old March 12th, 2017   #22
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What would the point be? They have a bunch of multi-caliber artillery that they have problems supplying with shells already. And you want to add another type to the mix? With imported ammo?
"Multicaliber artillery" - you should have mixed it up with other Baltic states. And that "bunch" of the soviet era guns should be given over to Ukraine to mush Russian forces. Isn't that a brilliant idea?
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Old March 12th, 2017   #23
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"Multicaliber artillery" - you should have mixed it up with other Baltic states. And that "bunch" of the soviet era guns should be given over to Ukraine to mush Russian forces. Isn't that a brilliant idea?
Sorry, perhaps I was unclear. Ukraine has a hodge-podge of multi-caliber artillery and has problems supplying them with appropriate ammo. Donating them another type of arty with yet another different caliber of shell would be counter-productive. As for mushing Russian forces, let's leave that discussion for the appropriate thread.
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Old August 12th, 2017   #24
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By the way. Australian MoD tried to sold their L119 Light Guns because they have completely shifted to 155 mm calibre (not a good decision from my point of view). They are conserved or in warehouse.
Also, Australian armed forces are upgrading their trucks and armoured vehicles, so a lot of Landrover, Unimog, Mack, 431 M113AS4 etc. are discontinued.

Last edited by vldbzh; August 16th, 2017 at 05:55 AM.
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Old September 22nd, 2017   #25
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BAE Systems has a good sized stock of ex-Australian Army 105mm light guns that it intends to market to the Middle East.
Company officials have previously told Shephard that the guns will have interest from the armies of the Middle East as well as Latin America, which would be keen to look at a proven and cost-effective system – now is their chance at IDEX.
The Australian Army replaced its L119 Hamel 105mm light guns with the larger calibre M777 155m howitzer, built by BAE Systems. It introduced these weapons from 2010-15 with the last Hamel retiring in 2014.
The company bought 92 Hamel from the Australian Army with the intention of refurbishing them and offering them to customers. The spokesperson told Shephard that they are being stored at facilities in Australia and the UK and that any refurbishment would depend on customer requirements.
A set of good quality proven 105mm light guns are an attractive option on the international market. BAE did not confirm where the guns were being stored or if they had already refurbished any, but it would not be surprising if they were snapped up as replacements or as an upgrade for existing capabilities.
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