Indian ocean region dilemma

[Sarkknight]

With the continuous encroachment by China in various parts of South China Sea the Indian ocean region has witnessed a strong growth of Chinese Naval activity with increasing Nuclear submarine patrols by the PLAN(People's liberation army navy) is somewhat threatening India's sovereignty but fear no with the inclusion of new Boeing P8-I used for ASW are also on regular patrols hunting for Chinese submarines . According to you how can the chinese be countered in the Indian ocean region by India. FYI- We have a satellite monitoring station in Hanoi and most probably we are gonna have a small naval base.

 

[Blackshoe]

Greetings, Sarkknight. Welcome to DefenceTalk!

Please introduce yourself in the New Members thread, and please read the relevant stickies.

 

[ngatimozart]

With the continuous encroachment by China in various parts of South China Sea the Indian ocean region has witnessed a strong growth of Chinese Naval activity with increasing Nuclear submarine patrols by the PLAN(People's liberation army navy) is somewhat threatening India's sovereignty but fear no with the inclusion of new Boeing P8-I used for ASW are also on regular patrols hunting for Chinese submarines . According to you how can the chinese be countered in the Indian ocean region by India. FYI- We have a satellite monitoring station in Hanoi and most probably we are gonna have a small naval base.

I think that it is a bit extreme to claim that current PLAN activities in the Indian Ocean region are threatening India's sovereignty. The PLAN is after all exercising its FON (Freedom Of Navigation) rights and a large amount of its energy is shipped through the Indian Ocean from the Middle East with its exports to Europe being shipped in the opposite direction. Hence this area is a very important and strategic SLOC (Sea Lanes Of Communication) for the PRC.

With regard to PRC submarines, from what I understand they are not as technically advanced as Russian subs so they maybe somewhat easier to track if you find one. ASW is not the easiest of pursuits and it requires a good level of high quality intel(ligence) in order to have a good chance of being successful. This means you really need to have intel of a sub operating in a particular area. So the first question would be, do you have the capacity and capability to generate such intel? And / or do you have the apropriate relationships and arrangements with friends and allies to provide you with such intel? Once you have that and know that a sub is operating in a particular geographic area, that narrows your hunting area down. From this you are able to deploy your assets with a modicum of certainty. After that it is up to a combination of skill and luck.

 

[Dave__]

I think, the best strategy for India is to closely cooperate with other powers which also are destined to resist China's resurgence and naval expansion - U.S. and Japan.

 

[Toblerone]

I think, the best strategy for India is to closely cooperate with other powers which also are destined to resist China's resurgence and naval expansion - U.S. and Japan.

Trying to isolate big powers like this just escalates the situation needlessly.

I don't think a country like India needs ... protection.

 

[Dave__]

Who talks about isolating anyone? It is about cooperation in the area where certain powers have mutual interests.

This cooperation is already happening anyway. It will probably get more active with time.

 

[Blackshoe]

Trying to isolate big powers like this just escalates the situation needlessly.

Because the Chinese have been so de-escalatory recently with their neighbors/sarcasm

And while India might not need protection from China, it certainly could allies when it would view itself in the middle of a three-way alliance against them (PRC, Pakistan, and Sri Lanka), and two of those neighbors being nuclear-armed.

To be fair, I doubt that China's growth in the IO is intended to threaten the Indians as much as it is to protect their necessary trade routes. I also don't think it's unreasonable for the Indians to think it's about them, either.

 

[Dave__]

Of course, China only wants to protect its trade routes.

Trouble is, the capability to protect its trade routes also means the capability to cut the same trade routes for other powers. Such as Japan and India. Which they don't like at all. They have enough trust to the US not to expect such move from them. Towards China their trust is not nearly enough for that, to put it mildly.

 

[bdique]

Of course, China only wants to protect its trade routes.

Trouble is, the capability to protect its trade routes also means the capability to cut the same trade routes for other powers. Such as Japan and India. Which they don't like at all. They have enough trust to the US not to expect such move from them. Towards China their trust is not nearly enough for that, to put it mildly.

It is more likely that the SLOCs in the SCS will come under Chinese 'protection' rather than those in the Indian Ocean.

The Chinese Navy has issues with resupplying and sustaining their fleets far from home; that is the reason why developments in the SCS are so headline-grabbing. The Chinese Navy will be more effective there than further out i.e. Indian Ocean.

 

[Dave__]

It is more likely that the SLOCs in the SCS will come under Chinese 'protection' rather than those in the Indian Ocean.

The Chinese Navy has issues with resupplying and sustaining their fleets far from home; that is the reason why developments in the SCS are so headline-grabbing. The Chinese Navy will be more effective there than further out i.e. Indian Ocean.

Yeah, at the moment, but the Chinese are thinking and working long-term. That's what that ports in Myanmar, Bangladesh, Pakistan and Sri Lanka thing is about. And now they are talking about Djibouti.

 

[Ranger25]

Yeah, at the moment, but the Chinese are thinking and working long-term. That's what that ports in Myanmar, Bangladesh, Pakistan and Sri Lanka thing is about. And now they are talking about Djibouti.

They are already building in Djibouti and will lead the the withdrawal of the US there.

If this continued PRC aggression in the SCS does more, it may push India into a more Western Sphere and away from the ORC and VPP out of necessity. IMO that would be a good thing for regional stability

 

[Dave__]

bdique

By the way, may I ask what people in Singapore think about this Indo-Pacific geopolitical game?

Obviously, your preference is for the peaceful global development to continue as long as possible, because due to your wonderful location development of global trade is perfect for both your prosperity and security. But it is clear, that this strategic confrontation between China on one hand and US and a number of regional powers on the other hand is going to continue, whether anyone wants it or not. So how do you think Singapore will position itself in this context?

 

[RobWilliams]

Yeah, at the moment, but the Chinese are thinking and working long-term. That's what that ports in Myanmar, Bangladesh, Pakistan and Sri Lanka thing is about. And now they are talking about Djibouti.

The reason they want all those bases is because they have resupply issues & that creates operational restrictions. Not the sort of thing a Chinese Admiral would like to think about in the Indian's back yard.

Similarly, how many naval bases does the US require to operate in the Indian Ocean?

 

[bdique]

bdique

By the way, may I ask what people in Singapore think about this Indo-Pacific geopolitical game?

Obviously, your preference is for the peaceful global development to continue as long as possible, because due to your wonderful location development of global trade is perfect for both your prosperity and security. But it is clear, that this strategic confrontation between China on one hand and US and a number of regional powers on the other hand is going to continue, whether anyone wants it or not. So how do you think Singapore will position itself in this context?

Officially, the government is tight-lipped on this matter and does not explicitly take sides. It is not difficult to understand why. (Perhaps, toeing this fine line has something to do with Singapore's stance on defence: that we cannot count on anyone to defend us except ourselves, but I am speculating.) An experienced commenter on Singaporean military affairs has summed up the situation rather nicely here: Senang Diri: China-US tift over the South China Sea will demand deft diplomacy from Singapore

Personally, I'd say the opinion of the layman (at least those I get to interact with) is rather divided, often formed out of biases, misconceptions and ignorance of geopolitical matters.

 

[Todjaeger]

The reason they want all those bases is because they have resupply issues & that creates operational restrictions. Not the sort of thing a Chinese Admiral would like to think about in the Indian's back yard.

Similarly, how many naval bases does the US require to operate in the Indian Ocean?

Diego Garcia is the only US base which springs to mind. Port calls for refueling and resupply being done at friendly/safe(-ish) ports.

One of the other things to keep in mind is that with a string of bases, those bases also would need to be kept supplied. The USN is large enough to support and protect the SLOC to US overseas bases. If the PRC wants to be able to project power into the Indian Ocean, they also need to be able to protect the SLOC not just to China, but to their respective bases.

 

[Dave__]

Officially, the government is tight-lipped on this matter and does not explicitly take sides. It is not difficult to understand why. (Perhaps, toeing this fine line has something to do with Singapore's stance on defence: that we cannot count on anyone to defend us except ourselves, but I am speculating.) An experienced commenter on Singaporean military affairs has summed up the situation rather nicely here: Senang Diri: China-US tift over the South China Sea will demand deft diplomacy from Singapore

Personally, I'd say the opinion of the layman (at least those I get to interact with) is rather divided, often formed out of biases, misconceptions and ignorance of geopolitical matters.

Thanks!



China seems to has taken over Jackson Atoll from the Philippines:

https://stratreview.wordpress.com/2016/03/03/china-takes-over-jackson-atoll-from-philippines/

 

[Vertias]

India has been troublemaker against all her neighbors while China has been a great element peace and development.

The most important catalyst of China into Indian ocean is the pacification of Tamil Tiger terrorist, who were the baby of India's imperialism and interference of Sri Lanka.

Thanks to China's assistance, Tiger got pacified.

India's conduct has antagonized the Sri Lanka's elites. And China earn the respect and gratefulness of Sri Lankan.

India, being a troublemaker delivering trouble and causing death, it is inevitable that China got invited to Indian Ocean by India's neighbor, especially Sri Lanka.

 

[SASWanabe]

India has been troublemaker against all her neighbors while China has been a great element peace and development.

Sarcasm doesnt translate well through a computer screen.

 

[Vertias]

Sarcasm doesnt translate well through a computer screen.

What I have said is truth and not a sense of sarcasm. EVERY single India's neighbor hate India, even though they are either Hindustanic people or Dharmic culture.

Else why Sri Lanka being Hindustanic people embrace China?


You're a slow leaner regarding absorbing prev advice given by members and Mods

You've also out stayed your welcome

 

[ngatimozart]

India has been troublemaker against all her neighbors while China has been a great element peace and development.

The most important catalyst of China into Indian ocean is the pacification of Tamil Tiger terrorist, who were the baby of India's imperialism and interference of Sri Lanka.

Thanks to China's assistance, Tiger got pacified.

India's conduct has antagonized the Sri Lanka's elites. And China earn the respect and gratefulness of Sri Lankan.

India, being a troublemaker delivering trouble and causing death, it is inevitable that China got invited to Indian Ocean by India's neighbor, especially Sri Lanka.

This is I think the fourth of your posts that I have replied to this morning and this will be the most forthright.

I note that you have posted on here 14 times now. You should be acquainted with the rules of this forum. The rules are for the reading of and abiding by and they apply to everyone. It does not help you or your cause to post inflammatory political remarks here, which are by the way strictly forbidden.

What I have said is truth and not a sense of sarcasm. EVERY single India's neighbor hate India, even though they are either Hindustanic people or Dharmic culture.

Else why Sri Lanka being Hindustanic people embrace China?

Well I think now that you are showing your colours. If you are being a troll then you have picked the wrong place because this forum is moderated very well and trolls are their pet hate, especially the God Moderator who hasn't been feed for a while. So if you want to stay on here change your style, read and abide by the rules and post using reputable sources. Otherwise your time on here will be short.