How Israel won the war

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SU 30MKI

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TEL AVIV - If you don't know that Israel won the recent war with Hezbollah it's because you haven't heard the behind-the-scenes story of the fighting.
A good place to start is to ask why, despite many televised threats from Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah, Hezbollah did not hit Tel Aviv. The answer is that using a combination of intelligence and technical means, Israel identified the location of Hezbollah's longer-range missiles and knocked them out with amazing speed and efficiency.


About 90 per cent of them were destroyed quickly in the war. Nasrallah could not deliver on what he considered to be his ultimate weapon.
An equally remarkable success, despite being taken for granted, is Israel's domination of the air. More plane and helicopter combat flights were flown than in any previous war by Israel, yet only one helicopter was shot down.
This was not due to Hezbollah lacking advanced anti-aircraft systems. In fact, they had the best light equipment available. Highly secret Israeli counter-measures, however, ensured that every anti-aircraft missile missed. Throughout the war, Israel retained full air superiority, which meant that its planes could go anywhere in Lebanon and hit any target.


While Hezbollah lost the war militarily, it did score significant victories in terms of public relations. One of the biggest hoaxes of modern media history was how Hezbollah manipulated the media. Photographs were falsified by those fooled by or aiding Hezbollah. All Lebanese casualty figures came from the Lebanese government, of which Hezbollah is part, and these never admitted that anyone killed was a Hezbollah gunmen or that any target hit was a military one.
Yet Israel has firm evidence that around 450 Hezbollah soldiers were killed -- more than half the purported civilian death toll -- and large numbers of Hezbollah facilities and arms dumps were destroyed. This is roughly 20 per cent of Hezbollah's best soldiers. Proportionate to forces in the field, Hezbollah's death toll alone was more than 30 times higher than Israel's.


One of Israel's most impressive achievements, which has still not been fully comprehended, was its ability to hit incoming shipments of arms from Syria. In many cases, trucks were hit within moments of crossing the Syria-Lebanon border. Hezbollah was using up munitions far faster than they were coming in. If the war had not ended when it did, they would have suffered an even more visibly humiliating defeat.

Another factor that has not yet registered is the deaths of high-ranking Hezbollah officials, several of whom are still missing, due to Israeli attacks on their headquarters and hiding places. One known name is Sajed Dawayer, head of Hezbollah's special forces. At one point, Mr. Nasrallah threatened to attack Tel Aviv if Israel struck at central Beirut. But why central Beirut when Hezbollah's followers live in south Beirut? Presumably, he was hiding in the centre of the city.


Given the huge number of rockets fired at Israeli civilians, the Israeli civil defence system functioned reasonably well. A key element there was the post-1992 policy of mandating that all newly built apartments have a specially reinforced room that could serve as a bomb shelter. Many lives were saved by this method. While losses were serious and social disruption tremendous, Hezbollah's claims of inflicting heavy losses should be weighed against the fact that single suicide bombings have killed almost as many Israelis as did 4,000 Hezbollah rockets.


The war also saw some firsts in imaginative psychological warfare. Israeli technicians broke into Hezbollah's al-Manar television broadcasts to send their own messages to its viewers. Recorded messages were sent to Lebanese telephone numbers warning of Hezbollah's inevitable defeat.


Unquestionably, Israel made mistakes in the war, many of them due to the political leadership's slow start and to an over-dependence on air power early on. Hezbollah also used some new techniques and advanced weapons that caused Israel troubles and casualties. Bolder techniques -- such as the reserve paratroopers' operation, which killed several dozen Hezbollah men with no Israeli losses -- came later in the campaign.


But less visible is the fact that Israel quickly adjusted to these conditions. Already, committees have been meeting and making recommendations -- in some cases already in the process of being implemented -- to correct faults. For example, tanks are going to be fitted with better defensive systems against advanced missiles. The anti-rocket Nautilus system will be developed for the future. A different approach will be used for attacking fortified bunkers, avoiding the use of tanks when possible.
One technique to which Israel caught on was Hezbollah's setting up of scattered rocket batteries activated by a two-man crew racing around on a motorcycle to fire them. And most important of all was the new type of army created by Hezbollah with the help of Iran and Syria. Its secrets include the fact that it is a regular army operating as guerrillas, possessing the world's most advanced arms, and ready to behave like suicide soldiers.


As U.S. forces found in fighting against the Japanese in the Second World War, it takes longer and costs more casualties to root out an enemy that prefers death to surrender or retreat. Yet suicide techniques are ineffective in winning victories. Such an army loses its best men and much equipment as a result, rather than falling back to fight another day.


Hezbollah also set its victory conditions very low. It was sufficient to survive and inflict losses on Israel. By this standard, however, many losers in war could claim success. The question is whether Hezbollah really is better off now with Lebanese army and international forces -- even if far from fully effective -- deploying in the south.


Moreover, its own constituents are not pleased with Hezbollah for bringing on their sufferings. Other Lebanese forces are outraged at it for dragging the country into a devastating war.


In the end, defeat on the battlefield cannot be wished away by claiming victory in speeches.


Barry Rubin is director of the Global Research in International Affairs (Gloria) Center, editor of the Middle East Review of International Affairs (MERIA) Journal, and editor of Turkish Studies.
http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=f010b2ed-6aca-4101-a143-22cd3e4f1813



I think Isreal is Won the war but not in real sense, one can understand from the sistuation that Hezbolla lied about isreali commando operations, like isreali commando fall into their trap and attack repulsed etc but when isreali showed in video, things was different. Hizbolla lied too much for media publicity but infact hizbolla suffered worst casuality
 

moughoun

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perception is reality in propaganda term's, Israel probably did inflict heavy casualities on Hezboallah, butat the end of the Day, Hezboallah is still standing, you cannot over emphasis what this mean's in the ME, Israel was consideredd invincible against the Arab's, they had defeted every military thrown at it, but here in 2006 a "small" terrorist group fought a pretty stand up battle against them and if not so much won, then held and were not destroyed, but around the Arab world and in Iran, they sense a weakening relativly in Israel's hand, Iran now feel's emboldened and Syria is getting more cocky and confident there, and Hezboallah is building an even bigger power base by helping to rebuild homes and bussiness's while the Lebanese Government is doing nothing, I personelly believe it's getting more dangerous for Israel now
 

Awang se

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perception is reality in propaganda term's, Israel probably did inflict heavy casualities on Hezboallah, butat the end of the Day, Hezboallah is still standing, you cannot over emphasis what this mean's in the ME, Israel was consideredd invincible against the Arab's, they had defeted every military thrown at it, but here in 2006 a "small" terrorist group fought a pretty stand up battle against them and if not so much won, then held and were not destroyed, but around the Arab world and in Iran, they sense a weakening relativly in Israel's hand, Iran now feel's emboldened and Syria is getting more cocky and confident there, and Hezboallah is building an even bigger power base by helping to rebuild homes and bussiness's while the Lebanese Government is doing nothing, I personelly believe it's getting more dangerous for Israel now
Furthermore, Israel failed to achieve any of it's initial objectives set before the Invasion. Hezbollah remain as a significant military and political force in lebanon and until the very end Hezbollah still able to launch a large salvos of rocket deep into Israel despite the claim on contrary by the Israel Officials. Hezbollah managed to maintain control of Bint Jbail despite the stream of attacks and long siege by Israel. we also see how the vaunted Merkava tank was destroyed or knock out time and again. in a way, i don't see how anyone can claim an israel victory. even the most Israel of israelist have their doubt. and if indeed it is a victory, why did Olmert now become a focus of intense scrutiny instead of being hail as a war hero?
 

Gerasimos

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I totally disagree,I don't believe Israel won this war at all.I think that for one more time the tactics used by Hesbolah show that you can never win sth that you can't see.Of course the death toll for Hezbolah is bigger,you can't compare the mil.budget of Israel and the weapons owned by Hezbolah,neither the training of both armies.By fighting with the way it did Hezbolah manage to make the modern weapons look silly.Also you may say Hezbolah won the war of media,because Israel helped for it,by killing too many civilians.If Israel tried to minimize the casualties and concentate more on military targets the whole world would support its campaign.I don't say who is wrong and who is right,I don't like politics.But in this war we've all seen that neither the leader of Hezbolah neither a big hit was made to it.
 
Many Israelis see a strategic defeat
http://www.boston.com/news/world/mi...6/08/16/many_israelis_see_a_strategic_defeat/

In Israel, critics condemn strategy behind war
By Anne Barnard and Matthew Kalman, Globe Staff and Globe Correspondent | August 16, 2006

JERUSALEM -- Scathing indictments of the way the Israeli government and its military have conducted the longest war in the nation's history filled the country's newspapers and airwaves yesterday, as Israelis began to feel safe enough to return to their national pastime of blistering political debate.

Israeli analysts across the political spectrum branded the war against Hezbollah fighters in Lebanon ``an embarrassing defeat" for a ``semi-rookie government" that should have known the goals it set for itself were ``impossible to achieve."

Ha'aretz, one of Israel's leading daily newspapers, summed up the national mood by presenting readers with an online poll that asked: ``Who should resign?"

A popular nominee was the army's chief of staff, Dan Halutz, who yesterday admitted selling his entire stock portfolio, worth $27,600, in the hours between Hezbollah's initial attack and the first Israeli bombardment of Beirut.

On the second day since July 12 without Hezbollah rocket attacks, many Israelis looked around and declared themselves sorely disappointed with a war that forced a million people to flee their homes in northern Israel and killed 150 Israelis and more than 800 Lebanese. The war inflamed anger across the Muslim world -- without dealing a decisive blow to Hezbollah or bringing home the two Israeli soldiers whose kidnapping by the Lebanese militant group triggered the fighting.

The outrage came from the left and the right.

``We simply blew it," was the headline on a column in left-leaning Ha'aretz by Yoel Marcus, who asked, ``What makes an army -- or its chief of staff, to be exact -- get up one fine morning and persuade a semi-rookie government to launch an all-out war at the drop of a hat because two of our soldiers were kidnapped?"

``The question is whether [Prime Minister Ehud] Olmert posed the right questions and the army gave him truthful answers. Did Olmert ask, for example, whether the army was capable of knocking Hezbollah out of commission, or at least disarming it?"

Yossi Klein Halevi, a right-leaning columnist and an analyst at Jerusalem's Shalem Center, lamented that Israel's leaders squandered ``an unprecedented green light from Washington . . . and a level of national unity and willingness to sacrifice unseen here since the 1973 Yom Kippur War," by not ordering a ground offensive.

``This is a nation whose heart has been broken," he declared in a column for The New Republic, ``by our failure to uproot the jihadist threat, which will return for another and far more deadly round."

It was a far cry from the 80-percent-plus approval ratings that Israelis gave the war at its outset -- 58 percent now say the country achieved minimal goals, if any -- or the ambitious goals that Olmert laid out on July 17, five days into the war, when he promised to wipe out Hezbollah from southern Lebanon.
``We will search every compound, target every terrorist who assists in attacking the citizens of Israel, and destroy every terrorist infrastructure, everywhere," he said then.

And Olmert faced an awkward comedown from the speech he gave Aug. 2 -- what some Israelis are calling a ``Mission Accomplished" moment, similar to President Bush's speech in front of an overly optimistic banner less than two months into the occupation of Iraq -- in which Olmert declared, ``Never again will they be able to threaten this country with missile fire."

Instead, Hezbollah managed to fire scores of missiles a day for nearly two more weeks, including 250 it launched on the last day before the cease-fire early Monday.

``If a lightweight boxer is fighting a heavyweight champion and is still standing in the 12th round, the victory is his -- whatever the count of points says," wrote Uri Avnery, a veteran political analyst and peace activist.

The flood of criticism gathered momentum a day after Bush declared that Hezbollah had been defeated and a cease-fire took effect under a UN Security Council resolution that on paper gives Israel results that it has dreamed of for years -- but that now, after the war's sacrifices, seems insufficient to many Israelis.

The resolution adopted Friday calls for Hezbollah to be disarmed, for the Lebanese Army to deploy in the southern Lebanon area where the militia has operated with impunity, and for an existing UN force there to be expanded to 15,000 troops. Olmert said Monday that the Israeli offensive had ended Hezbollah's ``state within a state," and had ``changed the strategic balance against Hezbollah."

But serious questions remain about whether the resolution will be implemented. The Lebanese government is weakened and afraid to confront Hezbollah, and the militant group's main backers, Iran and Syria, are likely to act as spoilers in the vague ``interim period" in which Israeli troops and Hezbollah fighters will uneasily coexist in southern Lebanon.

Many Israelis had felt frustrated before the war broke out because unilateral withdrawal from the Gaza Strip last year did not stop Palestinian militants from firing rockets into Israel and capturing a soldier in a cross-border raid June 25 that triggered a re-invasion of the coastal territory.

A former defense minister from the right-wing Likud party, Moshe Arens, declared, ``The war, which according to our leaders was supposed to restore Israel's deterrent posture, has within one month succeeded in destroying it. That message will not be lost on Hamas, the Syrians, and the Iranians."

The Syrian and Iranian leaders made triumphal speeches yesterday, declaring that Hezbollah had scored a great victory over Israel that would derail US plans for a ``new Middle East."

Israeli military officials said that while they were impressed by Hezbollah's tenacity and surprised by some of its weapons, such as the missile that hit an Israeli ship early in the war, they knew about its advanced communications, elaborate tunnel networks, and tens of thousands of missiles.

``We knew it, but it's different when you see it on the battlefield," Brigadier General Ido Nehushtan told reporters Monday. ``It's not a surprise, but when you see it on the ground, it's impressive."

Still, Israelis are used to lightning victories, as in the 1967 Six-Day War, when Israel defeated three Arab armies and captured the West Bank and Gaza Strip . Brigadier General Yossi Kuperwasser, a former top intelligence officer, said the military's war plan factored in 200 rockets being shot daily at Israeli civilians.

If the military knew that, then the government may not have asked the right questions before going to war, Dan Meridor, a former Likud minister who recently drafted a report calling on the army to adapt to guerrilla warfare, told Israeli radio yesterday.

The government, he said, should have considered ``whether we should have been satisfied with a sharp attack, perhaps kidnap someone in return and then stop," and should have asked whether it was possible to stop the rocket fire or defeat Hezbollah militarily, ``things which we should have known from the beginning it would be impossible to achieve."
 
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SU 30MKI

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moughoun said:
perception is reality in propaganda term's, Israel probably did inflict heavy casualities on Hezboallah, butat the end of the Day, Hezboallah is still standing, you cannot over emphasis what this mean's in the ME, Israel was consideredd invincible against the Arab's, they had defeted every military thrown at it, but here in 2006 a "small" terrorist group fought a pretty stand up battle against them and if not so much won, then held and were not destroyed, but around the Arab world and in Iran, they sense a weakening relativly in Israel's hand, Iran now feel's emboldened and Syria is getting more cocky and confident there, and Hezboallah is building an even bigger power base by helping to rebuild homes and bussiness's while the Lebanese Government is doing nothing, I personelly believe it's getting more dangerous for Israel now
Yes Hizb is still standing, right. But that wasnt the real objective of IDF, if that was the real objective of IDF then they shouldnt wait for that long to launch Ground Invation and also with not only 7,000 thousand initially and then moved to 15,000 only in last days of war.

Even a Foolish non Militry person cannot do that, IF IDF want to destroy the Hibz then they assemble 50,000 personnel and launched a full scaled invation and reach the entire country within matter of 10 days. In that case not even the Hibz can do anything or can hide anyware, they cant even get the shelter in any other state.

You think that the war end and peace achived?

NO, this is just the Bignning, Ball is now rolling, The real is yet to start.

No Syria and Iran is not get stronger, By having the UN force now Hizb cannot launch any missile in Israel, becasue if they do so they confort with the UN which means Israel will get full authrority and also possible sanctoin by the UNSC on Hizb and their supporter.

Fact was judge by the fact how Hibz lied to the people about the war news and how they intimated the reports , you have find many instance where news and reports are in the favour of Hibz which after sometimes found incorrect.

By the way most of Ground Troops in IDF which send in Leb was inexperienced and was not a part of reguraler army.
 

SU 30MKI

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Awang se said:
Furthermore, Israel failed to achieve any of it's initial objectives set before the Invasion. Hezbollah remain as a significant military and political force in lebanon and until the very end Hezbollah still able to launch a large salvos of rocket deep into Israel despite the claim on contrary by the Israel Officials. Hezbollah managed to maintain control of Bint Jbail despite the stream of attacks and long siege by Israel. we also see how the vaunted Merkava tank was destroyed or knock out time and again. in a way, i don't see how anyone can claim an israel victory. even the most Israel of israelist have their doubt. and if indeed it is a victory, why did Olmert now become a focus of intense scrutiny instead of being hail as a war hero?
That was not their real objective, If that was their real objective then IDF troops will have Reguler experenced soilders in leb and not the in-experenced IDF Reserves.

Yes they are able to launch rockets into the Israel but from where? where they stored and launched them? only from Residential area and from Mosques.

Isreal showed in the Video and Did Hibz admit that they hide their missiles in residential and mosque area? did they dare to tell? But they did they only that Residential area was bombed civilian killed.

One thing, when the building is bomed and which was collasped after 5 hours, howcome civilian was still their? untill and unsless they was not forced to stay their.

Even when Hizb showed the Reported the area, they warned reports they will not go anywhere else not take any pic of other things, what Hizb is intended to hide in civilian area.

More over did Hizb tell u that, they used civilian as a sheld to fight with ISreal, they didnt allowed villigers to leave the village thus fighting from their houses so that IDF cannot target them.

After agaist that much ODDS Israel achived a scuess.

They used World most advanced ANti Tank missile to destroy which dosent prove anything, No tank can stand with best anti tank device.

Olmert didnot have militry experienced nor his def minister, this is the first time that Israel has such persons in hight post, obsiously they will face the inquery and question will asked

why inexperenced IDF reserve was send into leb and not the experenced IDF army.

Is their other ways the war was conducted etc
 

SU 30MKI

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Gerasimos said:
I totally disagree,I don't believe Israel won this war at all.I think that for one more time the tactics used by Hesbolah show that you can never win sth that you can't see.Of course the death toll for Hezbolah is bigger,you can't compare the mil.budget of Israel and the weapons owned by Hezbolah,neither the training of both armies.By fighting with the way it did Hezbolah manage to make the modern weapons look silly.Also you may say Hezbolah won the war of media,because Israel helped for it,by killing too many civilians.If Israel tried to minimize the casualties and concentate more on military targets the whole world would support its campaign.I don't say who is wrong and who is right,I don't like politics.But in this war we've all seen that neither the leader of Hezbolah neither a big hit was made to it.
Hizb which has 100 Million USD budget / year and all are provided with Commando trype training and armed with leather Anti Tank missile and fighting keeping civilian as an shield while fighting.

As Israel is asking to its army why did you cared for their civilian life if you have to chose between Israeli life and leb life why didnt you choosen Israeli life? this is the question they are asking. No army in the world can fight with these kind of people witout killing large number of civiliens.

Which militry targers you are taking about? Hibz used Mosque and Civilian area and housed to store and launch wepons, These are your potential militry Target?
 

moughoun

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SU 30MKI said:
That was not their real objective, If that was their real objective then IDF troops will have Reguler experenced soilders in leb and not the in-experenced IDF Reserves.

Yes they are able to launch rockets into the Israel but from where? where they stored and launched them? only from Residential area and from Mosques.

Isreal showed in the Video and Did Hibz admit that they hide their missiles in residential and mosque area? did they dare to tell? But they did they only that Residential area was bombed civilian killed.

One thing, when the building is bomed and which was collasped after 5 hours, howcome civilian was still their? untill and unsless they was not forced to stay their.

Even when Hizb showed the Reported the area, they warned reports they will not go anywhere else not take any pic of other things, what Hizb is intended to hide in civilian area.

More over did Hizb tell u that, they used civilian as a sheld to fight with ISreal, they didnt allowed villigers to leave the village thus fighting from their houses so that IDF cannot target them.

After agaist that much ODDS Israel achived a scuess.

They used World most advanced ANti Tank missile to destroy which dosent prove anything, No tank can stand with best anti tank device.

Olmert didnot have militry experienced nor his def minister, this is the first time that Israel has such persons in hight post, obsiously they will face the inquery and question will asked

why inexperenced IDF reserve was send into leb and not the experenced IDF army.

Is their other ways the war was conducted etc
Israel had several objectives, to push Hezboallah away from the border, that's why the Litani river was constently mentioned, yet they did not manage it, even up to the end of the conflict Hezboallah were attacking them in supposedly secured villages along the border,2 to stop the missile attacks, well on the last Day, Hezboallah fired 150+ missiles, the reason they stopped was not because of Israeli effort's but because of the ceasefire, they saw it as a victory,3, to "disarm" HEZ, well, they have not been, and most likely will not, the Lebanese Gov has said they won't, the UN can't, where do you go from there? Hez have never denied hiding weapn's in Civilian area's, hell listening to Lebanese civilian's they are proud to help, remember to alot of them, Israel is the enemy Hez is the only organisation taking care of them, the Lebanese gov certainly does not!, btw, it's hard to leave a village when the road's are being bombed/sheeled and all traffic is getting hit even when heading away from the AOA, about the ATGWS's, well Hez had them they used them, are you saying Hez should have just stood around to be killed in a orderly and efficient manner, and not fight back?:rolleyes:, well if Olmert and his def minister had no experience, who's fault is that, although also Dan Halutz is up on a block too, he after all pushed the "air power alone" strategy also of course he is in trouble for his finance dealings before the war,and the IDF sent most of the inexperienced reservist's to the gaza strip, most of the elite units and regulars went to Lebanon
 

SU 30MKI

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moughoun said:
Israel had several objectives, to push Hezboallah away from the border, that's why the Litani river was constently mentioned, yet they did not manage it, even up to the end of the conflict Hezboallah were attacking them in supposedly secured villages along the border,2 to stop the missile attacks, well on the last Day, Hezboallah fired 150+ missiles, the reason they stopped was not because of Israeli effort's but because of the ceasefire, they saw it as a victory,3, to "disarm" HEZ, well, they have not been, and most likely will not, the Lebanese Gov has said they won't, the UN can't, where do you go from there? Hez have never denied hiding weapn's in Civilian area's, hell listening to Lebanese civilian's they are proud to help, remember to alot of them, Israel is the enemy Hez is the only organisation taking care of them, the Lebanese gov certainly does not!, btw, it's hard to leave a village when the road's are being bombed/sheeled and all traffic is getting hit even when heading away from the AOA, about the ATGWS's, well Hez had them they used them, are you saying Hez should have just stood around to be killed in a orderly and efficient manner, and not fight back?:rolleyes:, well if Olmert and his def minister had no experience, who's fault is that, although also Dan Halutz is up on a block too, he after all pushed the "air power alone" strategy also of course he is in trouble for his finance dealings before the war,and the IDF sent most of the inexperienced reservist's to the gaza strip, most of the elite units and regulars went to Lebanon
No means to say that, Hibz is a trained and armed with morden wepons, i dont think all the 15K soilders are from elite unit, most of the unit is of reserves which didnt even hold gun from last 15 years.

Hibz didnt admit they are using Civilians areas or mosques, if they admit this then the pressure will not on Israel They lost in the ground but they won in the Media.

Launching Rockets, well launching a rockets which has a range of 60+km from way beyond the boder area is not a big deal. it is nothing great in it espically when you far away from ground troops. These rockets are light and highly mobile and can be launched easily from the residentals building which they are using or from the mosque, it is not a big achivement.

But after firing 4000 Rockets how much damaged they achived?

what If Israel used MBRLs with Fragmentation submunitions warhead or with fuel-air explosive warhead. what if these used in the Guns shells also? will any one can Survive from that?

Do think can Hibz Could Survive if Israel used Fragmentation Submuitions in shells or if they used MBRLs. Not even the best equip army can or city can stand againt the these MBRLs which pulvarise the large area in matter of seconds, wiping out entire village in only 5 Sec with every one in it.

Its only Israel they didnt used full weapons.

Israeli dosent want to enggage fully or to wasit energy with Hibz in controllling the entire leb. or send large number of IDF their , you seen they send 7k , then 10k and in the last days they send 15k.

They know they will soon be fighting with IRAN and Syria simul. and with UN in leb Hibz will be no longer threat.
 
what world are you ^ living in? who is giving out checks to the people to rebuild? who is rebuilding roads and bridges in lebanon? a bit of reality will do you some good.

maybe you didn't see this.

Many Israelis see a strategic defeat
[http://www.boston.com/news/world/mi...6/08/16/many_israelis_see_a_strategic_defeat/

"And Olmert faced an awkward comedown from the speech he gave Aug. 2 -- what some Israelis are calling a ``Mission Accomplished" moment, similar to President Bush's speech in front of an overly optimistic banner less than two months into the occupation of Iraq -- in which Olmert declared, ``Never again will they be able to threaten this country with missile fire."

Instead, Hezbollah managed to fire scores of missiles a day for nearly two more weeks, including 250 it launched on the last day before the cease-fire early Monday"
SU 30MKI said:
.

They know they will soon be fighting with IRAN and Syria simul. and with UN in leb Hibz will be no longer threat.
in case you haven't noticed the un were in lebanon prior to this conflict.
 
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ahussains

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No means to say that, Hibz is a trained and armed with morden wepons, i dont think all the 15K soilders are from elite unit, most of the unit is of reserves which didnt even hold gun from last 15 years.

Hibz didnt admit they are using Civilians areas or mosques, if they admit this then the pressure will not on Israel They lost in the ground but they won in the Media.

Launching Rockets, well launching a rockets which has a range of 60+km from way beyond the boder area is not a big deal. it is nothing great in it espically when you far away from ground troops. These rockets are light and highly mobile and can be launched easily from the residentals building which they are using or from the mosque, it is not a big achivement.
 

Ding

Member
SU 30MKI.... I love the plane. But dude, you are not living in this world dude. You comments does not even reflect what the Israelis think or feel let alone the international defence analyst/observer.

And please post correctly, not Hibz or Leb or KFC or McD. sheesh. Maybe you have a point somewhere (MAYBE) but with all your Hibz or Leb or KFC or McD I can't see it.

Oh a bit Off topic. Isnt the Hesbollahs should be shortened into Hezb or Hizb instead of Hibz.... Not unless they are spelled Hebzollahs, no?
 

TrangleC

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The "funny" thing is that due to the conflict the oild prizes rose and economists estimated that Iran earned almost 3 billion Dollars more with their oil in the last month than they would have earned without the conflict. So in a way Israel didn't just not achieve their goal to destroy Hezzbollah, but also gave a big financial present to Iran.
Now the Iranians could just take a part of that extra money and pump it into Hezzbollah again.
 

SU 30MKI

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Mod edit: This thread is being locked due to multiple inflamatory posts and "political" discussions. Don't start a similar thread either guys. Cool down, read the rules and then post respectfully or don't bother. AD.
 
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webmaster

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Somthing also happens behind the sceens which are also not meant for public consumptions.
And they only told you?

Better start giving sources and reference for your claim otherwise this thread will be locked and may get you banned for making claims that you can't back up with proper references.
 

Gerasimos

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SU 30MKI said:
The Israeli Army scored two important achievements,. First, good intelligence allowed it to knock out up to 80 percent of Hezbollah’s medium- and long-range missile launchers in the first two days of the air war, preventing Sheik Nasrallah from firing a longer-range Iranian Zelzal missile on Tel Aviv.


More important, Israel was able to destroy launchers within 45 seconds to a minute after they were used, which no other army in the world can do with regularity, he said. Employing drones, radar, precision weapons and artillery, Israel could track a launching and bomb it.


But it could not do that with the thousands of short-range Katyusha rockets. They are small and easily portable, can be fired from buildings or simple metal tripods or even fired with a simple timer.


Somthing also happens behind the sceens which are also not meant for public consumptions. Yes UN force was their in Lebanon but with no weapons, now new UN force come with Heavy wepons and also authrorise to use force, now Hezbollah find it very difficult, He is not going to hit UN.

If he Hit then he will face full scale internationl scantion , which will further hit syria and iran plan.Israel played smartly with Europiean armed troops with clear rule of enggangement in south Hizbollah is not a threat anymore
First of all how do you know that 80% of Hezbollah’s medium- and long-range missile launchers was destroyed?How someone could know how much weapons Hezbollah has when he doesn't know simpler things like how many troops are there.I doubt Israel doesn't have counter-measures for Katyusha rockets.Also my opinion is that you should try to have a "broader look" in the subject of UN.Until now Israel was the one that accidentally hit UN troops not Hezbollah.
 

arkhan

New Member
TrangleC said:
The "funny" thing is that due to the conflict the oild prizes rose and economists estimated that Iran earned almost 3 billion Dollars more with their oil in the last month than they would have earned without the conflict. So in a way Israel didn't just not achieve their goal to destroy Hezzbollah, but also gave a big financial present to Iran.
Now the Iranians could just take a part of that extra money and pump it into Hezzbollah again.
one thing i'm sure the Hezzbollah learn from this war/skirmish is they need more potent SAM againts IAF fighters. with all those money they will try to buy few of them in the black market. IDF and mossad will have to work hard to stop new shipment to Hezzbollah.
 

Ding

Member
SU 30MKI said:
The Israeli Army scored two important achievements,. First, good intelligence allowed it to knock out up to 80 percent of Hezbollah’s medium- and long-range missile launchers in the first two days of the air war, preventing Sheik Nasrallah from firing a longer-range Iranian Zelzal missile on Tel Aviv.


More important, Israel was able to destroy launchers within 45 seconds to a minute after they were used, which no other army in the world can do with regularity, he said. Employing drones, radar, precision weapons and artillery, Israel could track a launching and bomb it.


But it could not do that with the thousands of short-range Katyusha rockets. They are small and easily portable, can be fired from buildings or simple metal tripods or even fired with a simple timer.


Somthing also happens behind the sceens which are also not meant for public consumptions. Yes UN force was their in Lebanon but with no weapons, now new UN force come with Heavy wepons and also authrorise to use force, now Hezbollah find it very difficult, He is not going to hit UN.

If he Hit then he will face full scale internationl scantion , which will further hit syria and iran plan.Israel played smartly with Europiean armed troops with clear rule of enggangement in south Hizbollah is not a threat anymore
explain the attacks on UN troops in South Lebanon. explain the missile attacks on civilian buildings. explain the attacks on roads, bridges, food convoys, aid convoys. If these are the targets of the IDF then yes, they have won the "war". But on a strategic level, what IDF has done is make Hizbollah stronger if not mentally, if not in strength.

Malaysians have fought terrorism for 12 years back in the 50s and won. The key of winning is not using brute strength and firepower alone. The key of winning war against terrorism is buy solving the root issue and to win peoples heart so that they stop supporting the terrorist. Show the people there's a better way and they will stop support to the terrorist.

Of course now the question is what is Hizbullah really fighting for? Answer that question and find a way to accomodate that and everybody wins

edit* when i say 'really fighting for' I meant the real reason, not the groups rhetoric slogans of death to Israel. I mean the real root reason... why did they form up in the first place. Are they unhappy because their lands were taken away? maybe because they are displaced? The real reason....*
 
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SU 30MKI

New Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #20
Ding said:
explain the attacks on UN troops in South Lebanon. explain the missile attacks on civilian buildings. explain the attacks on roads, bridges, food convoys, aid convoys. If these are the targets of the IDF then yes, they have won the "war". But on a strategic level, what IDF has done is make Hizbollah stronger if not mentally, if not in strength.

Malaysians have fought terrorism for 12 years back in the 50s and won. The key of winning is not using brute strength and firepower alone. The key of winning war against terrorism is buy solving the root issue and to win peoples heart so that they stop supporting the terrorist. Show the people there's a better way and they will stop support to the terrorist.

Of course now the question is what is Hizbullah really fighting for? Answer that question and find a way to accomodate that and everybody wins

edit* when i say 'really fighting for' I meant the real reason, not the groups rhetoric slogans of death to Israel. I mean the real root reason... why did they form up in the first place. Are they unhappy because their lands were taken away? maybe because they are displaced? The real reason....*
Well, i dont wanna get inot history, where lebanon was helping palestine which bring Israel into lebanon, so whoese fault it is? who bring the israel into lebanon. Until israel not feel secure they will continue to holding land.

UN is bised, UN published the report same day the Hizbolla is firing rockets near from IN post.

They always choose villages with heavy population, especially Christian villages, or villages right next to UN posts from which to launch their attacks. They do this so as to force the Israeli military to kill as many innocent civilians as possible when they return fire.

There are so many incidents of Israeli use of excessive force in retaliation against guerilla groups. One extreme incidence occurred on April 18, 1996. In order to punish Hezbollah for bombarding Israeli land, Israeli troops launched a massive military attack called "Grapes of Wrath." When this attack was about to come to an end, when UN Security Council was just about to vote on the 1052 resolution to demand immediate cease-fire, Israel dropped a large bomb on a UNIFIL cafeteria in Lebanon, killing 106 Lebanese civilians who had gone to the cafeteria seeking shelter. Israel was universally condemned by the world for this bombing.


Upon investigation, it was found that just a few meters from the cafeteria were Hezbollah missile launchers. Obviously, the missile launchers were the intended target of the air strike. The Israeli military explained that the bomb was guided by a system that automatically fires back at the location from which enemy missiles are launched. Why was the Hezbollah firing rockets from a position just meters from a building holding Lebanese civilians—knowing full well that the Israeli military would return fire?

Similar incidences happened repeatedly during that conflict. Even the battalion commander of the Chinese Engineering troop within the UN peacemaking troops there at the time publicly complained to the media that Hezbollah forces were intentionally launching missiles from right next to UN posts.   This is obviously done to make Israel look bad—and it seems to be a trick that works pretty well.


This time, whether Israel was deceived one more time by Hezbollah, or whether the commander of the Israeli forces became too agitated and made a foolish error, will be judged based on results from the ongoing investigation.

If someone from my neighbourhood is shooting on me, i will also shoot back irrespective whome may get killed and same everyone also do.

When those people is helping in storing rockets in civilian area and helping them in launching it, all this make them also a part of war, so why they compalin when they get killed. They didnt complain when they fire rockets from their home or store them? do they? they didnt complain when they carry guns and wear their clothes and move around them ? do they? So why they are complaing now.

Attacks on civlian was justified since they was used to store wepons and help in firing them. UN post is justified becasue they didnt act when ISraeli complaing about these being used as firing place. Food convoys and others was justified becasue they taking materials for terriorists and their supports.

In war anything, everything which supports enemy is target, rule of war save yourself first then others , suppose if one man is hiding behind other man and pointing gun towards you and asking you to drop the gun and you know that he is giong to kill you then what will you do? Drop the gun and let you get killed? or save yourself?

http://www.theepochtimes.com/news/6-7-30/44424.html
 
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