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This is a discussion on Germany within the Geo-strategic Issues forum, part of the Global Defense & Military category; We still do have soldiers in Turkey after that, mostly the AWACS crews operating out of Konya a bit further ...


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Old June 14th, 2017   #46
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We still do have soldiers in Turkey after that, mostly the AWACS crews operating out of Konya a bit further west from Incirlik.

First troops directly from Incirlik were transferred to Al-Azraq today btw, reinforcing the small planning staff that was deployed from Germany last thursday.

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Of course there are other issues, such as working in Turkey.
Wasn't that complicated apparently. There've been a lot less issues in practice in Incirlik than in previous German deployments to Turkey, possibly because after all pretty much half of it is a US base.

Some notable problems operating in Turkey recently had Active Fence (Patriot deployment on the Syrian border), where there were some incidents - attacks - with the local population, but also in particular the - in Germany barely known - two-year deployment in Trabzon on the northern coast (air/sea logistics turntable transferring equipment back from Afghanistan) where on Turkish insistence German soldiers weren't allowed off-base in uniform, the German troops could not fly any flags from the buildings they operated from, and the whole thing went to the ridiculous extent that a visiting German Navy admiral had to fly in in civilian clothing on a non-military aircraft. Trabzon also had administrative issues where the Turkish government showed itself uncooperative (such as the medical officer having problems taking along an on-hand minimum of sedatives, or being unable to import alcohol-based desinfectants...).
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Old June 15th, 2017   #47
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I remember almost 30 years ago encountering some antipodean women (one of who later stayed with me here ) having a picnic in the main square in Trabzon, washed down with beer. Nobody objected, back then.

I think there have been changes for the worse in some aspects of Turkish life - & I notice that the local government in Trabzon has been run by Erdogan's party for many years.
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Old June 15th, 2017   #48
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I notice that the local government in Trabzon has been run by Erdogan's party for many years.
His parents are actually from that region - Rize province immediately bordering Trabzon to the east.

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having a picnic in the main square in Trabzon, washed down with beer.
Around 2009 police in tourist areas started cracking down on beer consumption as a supposed violation of traffic ordinances; around 2011 alcohol-free beer was outlawed as an "entry drug"; in 2013 the sale of alcohol at night was outlawed and restaurants are required to set up separate "alcohol-free" and "alcohol" rooms, following parliament passing the required bills after Erdogan called Atatürk an alcoholic in his speech supporting it; since 2014 alcohol and places selling such may no longer be avertised, including censoring movies containing alcohol consumption scenes; in 2015 alcohol consumption in outdoor public areas was completely outlawed.

To be fair it's not that much differently handled from some parts of Germany, actually.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #49
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Found this interesting about Germany moving equipment and people out of Turkey.

Of course there are other issues, such as working in Turkey. Jordan might be politically easier to operate out of.
Full operations from Jordan started October 9th btw, after the Tornados arrived five days earlier. The last German soldiers left Incirlik on September 27th; the last two Tornados left on July 31st.

The A310-MRTT tanker was transferred directly from Incirlik to Al-Asraq and began operations from there exactly 3 months earlier on July 9th; it is apparently somewhat more crucial to the mission overall for the international partners, having performed over 500 sorties since December 2015, while the Tornados - per aircraft - only pulled half as many (at the point of its transfer to Jordan it had delivered about 10,000 tons of fuel to allied aircraft).

The transfer occured differently for the A310 than for the rest: The ground support equipment for the A310 - due to time-sensitive scheduling, the A310 was supposed to (and did) resume operations two days later - was flown in using two SALIS An-124 flights, the maintenance crews were transferred on C-160 Transalls. Transferred equipment included two large airfield tanker trucks used to load up the A310 on the tarmac with its full fuel load in under 20 minutes.

The whole support gear for the Tornados meanwhile was booked for flights on the USAF C-17 taxi service (which is somewhat notorious in the Luftwaffe for its unreliable scheduling), which probably came out slightly cheaper than wasting An-124 flight hours on that.

Some support gear for Jordan - since it's not quite like Incirlik, which is like halfway a US Air Base - was flown in from Germany using another An-124 flight (with a mobile medical station) and multiple A400M flights throughout August.

Somewhat interestingly - for a recce mission - only one of the four Tornados stationed in Al-Asraq is from TaktLwG 51 (recce focus); the other three are from TaktLwG 33 (strategic and CAS strike focus), even if used for the same mission.
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