French authorize troops to shoot down threatening Israeli planes
- Thread starter Ibizan Hound
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Ibizan, thanks for posting.
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Please remember, your personal comments/input is required when quoting/posting news articles otherwise thread maybe deleted/locked, etc.
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Thanks and enjoy!
O i would love to see this, especially the explanations coming out of Israel and France, there would be a lot of sucking up from the french to give a proper reason when they are not under attack, but felt the need to shoot first ask questions later.
Plus, would this mean that the IDF fighter was under attack, and could respond in kind?
Plus, would this mean that the IDF fighter was under attack, and could respond in kind?
I'll have to admit that i'm very scared from this...
The french knows perfectly well that the aircrafts wont attack them. Attacking the aircrafts will only cause for immediate response, and we might start here something we don't want to.
They are the guests here, this is not their war. Don't mess with our bussiness and don't do anything you'll regret.
The french knows perfectly well that the aircrafts wont attack them. Attacking the aircrafts will only cause for immediate response, and we might start here something we don't want to.
They are the guests here, this is not their war. Don't mess with our bussiness and don't do anything you'll regret.
Grand Danois
Entertainer
You had your war, and didn't follow through. But you would against France, Italy, Spain etc. ?
I'd love to see two modern armies duke it out for a change rather than this no tech vs high tech rubbish we've been feed on for so long!
Hey and we'ed learn alot about modern weapon systems, so it would be educational as well.
This could escalate very nicely!
Hey and we'ed learn alot about modern weapon systems, so it would be educational as well.
yeah see the great thing is the french and the Israelies dont do sucking up very well!
This could escalate very nicely!
contedicavour
New Member
Hmm that's not funny :lul the place is already a mess as it is, no need to add European casualties just because of some fuzzy ROEs...
Anyway what reassures me is that the whole thing is just a political message : stop acting aggressively because there is after all a remote chance we'd shoot (btw, you could just illuminate the planes, or shoot and then immediately auto-destruct, if the plane is flying sufficiently high it wouldn't be hit).
I would have done things differently. Send a carrier or a couple of latest generation destroyers just off the coast. Even the IDF would have to act more cautiously if there are Rafales hanging around or Aster 30s that could pursue you for 120km at Mach 4 ...
cheers
Anyway what reassures me is that the whole thing is just a political message : stop acting aggressively because there is after all a remote chance we'd shoot (btw, you could just illuminate the planes, or shoot and then immediately auto-destruct, if the plane is flying sufficiently high it wouldn't be hit).
I would have done things differently. Send a carrier or a couple of latest generation destroyers just off the coast. Even the IDF would have to act more cautiously if there are Rafales hanging around or Aster 30s that could pursue you for 120km at Mach 4 ...
cheers
I agree with you, I am pretty sure that by the IDF sending a general to France to discuss this important issue that the IDF will use better tactics as to not stir things up. we do not need to see Isreal taking on the world over a bunch of terrorists.
Do you think that you are going to go back in and finish the job.
The aircrafts flying over Lebanon are taking images, and looking first hand whats going on over there from the Hizballah side.
I don't think we need it at all, UAV's can do the job, but the IAF use the F-16 for special imaging, radar sources, and things the UAV's can't discover, and we wont risk the " Nahshun " for.
Since UNIFIL doesn't do anything againts Hizballah, the IDF is preparing itself the best it can, so in the next round, we will know where is everything and will be able to destroy it.
We have all the rights to do that, even if the UN disagree.
Someone need to do that, and if UNIFIL doesn't, we will.
Don't be so childish, please.
There is no war between Israel and France Italy and Spain, and there will be no such war.
Thery're our allies, whether we agree on things or we doesn't.
In the end we have the same goal.
I don't think we need it at all, UAV's can do the job, but the IAF use the F-16 for special imaging, radar sources, and things the UAV's can't discover, and we wont risk the " Nahshun " for.
Since UNIFIL doesn't do anything againts Hizballah, the IDF is preparing itself the best it can, so in the next round, we will know where is everything and will be able to destroy it.
We have all the rights to do that, even if the UN disagree.
Someone need to do that, and if UNIFIL doesn't, we will.
Don't be so childish, please.
There is no war between Israel and France Italy and Spain, and there will be no such war.
Thery're our allies, whether we agree on things or we doesn't.
In the end we have the same goal.
Total agreement here.
Grand Danois
Entertainer
You do realise that it is simulated bombing runs vs UNIFIL positions, not recce missions that is the issue?
Calm down dudes!!!
I was joking, but this whole situation comedic, can anyone even tell me why the multinational forces are there?
The whole thing is a very bad joke, and if you look at the past 30 years its only a matter of time before the Israelies hit the forces stationed on the borders, wheater it be land or sea.
Unless the Multinationals have Robust ROE's, and the Israelies know it they will be hit. The UN has been used as a punch bag for the last 30 years because the Israelies and the Hezzbullah know they are know they are no threat.
Since the Multi Nationals got there the Israelies have been seeing how far they can push them, how they react to pressure. Its a method of establishing phycological dominance over an opponent. A way of saying "we can hit you anytime we want, so stay out of our way"
If the Multinationals are there to prevent cross border incurions by either side
they must be seen to act, if that means painting Israeli jets when they violate the border, or firing on Hezzbullah infiltration teams, so be it.
Otherwise they might as well go home, cause there not there to be target practice.
I was joking, but this whole situation comedic, can anyone even tell me why the multinational forces are there?
The whole thing is a very bad joke, and if you look at the past 30 years its only a matter of time before the Israelies hit the forces stationed on the borders, wheater it be land or sea.
Unless the Multinationals have Robust ROE's, and the Israelies know it they will be hit. The UN has been used as a punch bag for the last 30 years because the Israelies and the Hezzbullah know they are know they are no threat.
Since the Multi Nationals got there the Israelies have been seeing how far they can push them, how they react to pressure. Its a method of establishing phycological dominance over an opponent. A way of saying "we can hit you anytime we want, so stay out of our way"
If the Multinationals are there to prevent cross border incurions by either side
they must be seen to act, if that means painting Israeli jets when they violate the border, or firing on Hezzbullah infiltration teams, so be it.
Otherwise they might as well go home, cause there not there to be target practice.
Grand Danois
Entertainer
Not that we are riled up (I at least don't think so.).
They are there, because the French (and the Americans) would like to see the current govt in Lebanon survive. It is under attack by the Hezbollah and the Syrians and couldn't survive to also be attacked by the Israelis. So the French intervened politically. The large contingents are a product of Italian and French rivalries in the Mediterranean area.
The Israelis and the Lebanese govts can be talked to, as they are part of the int'l community. The Hezbollah, Syria and Iran are considered outside of paedagogic reach ie they won't concede unless they are coerced - militarily.
Exactly. However, this version of UNIFIL is a prestige project, which means the tolerance for intimidation is far, far less.
They are there, because the French (and the Americans) would like to see the current govt in Lebanon survive. It is under attack by the Hezbollah and the Syrians and couldn't survive to also be attacked by the Israelis. So the French intervened politically. The large contingents are a product of Italian and French rivalries in the Mediterranean area.
The Israelis and the Lebanese govts can be talked to, as they are part of the int'l community. The Hezbollah, Syria and Iran are considered outside of paedagogic reach ie they won't concede unless they are coerced - militarily.
Grand Danois said it already.
The problems are not some recce missions but the ongoing simulated attacks on UNIFIL land positions and ships.
Simulated bombing runs on UNIFIL units and low level overflights of F-16s over the UNIFIL HQ are for sure no recce missions.
As well as the simulated attack with warning shots of 6 F-16 onto our intelligence vessel, an IDF FAC which nearly rammed one of our FACs, the helicopter which was forced to land by IAF and a sub lurking under our FFG (It is build by us so we know how to find it ).
These are all not actions which look like the ones of real allies.
And they are also no normal recce missions.
I understand that Israel doesn't believe that UNIFIL stops the Hezbollah from rearming (I also do not) but these actions don't make it better.
The problems are not some recce missions but the ongoing simulated attacks on UNIFIL land positions and ships.
Simulated bombing runs on UNIFIL units and low level overflights of F-16s over the UNIFIL HQ are for sure no recce missions.
As well as the simulated attack with warning shots of 6 F-16 onto our intelligence vessel, an IDF FAC which nearly rammed one of our FACs, the helicopter which was forced to land by IAF and a sub lurking under our FFG (It is build by us so we know how to find it
).These are all not actions which look like the ones of real allies.
And they are also no normal recce missions.
I understand that Israel doesn't believe that UNIFIL stops the Hezbollah from rearming (I also do not) but these actions don't make it better.
contedicavour
New Member
Exactly, and honestly I don't see what they gain from this sort of provocation. A single incident and Israel will end up alone in the world (even the US would not be able to caution an attack on NATO countries).
If I were an IDF general, I would court martial the pilots concerned
radiosilence
jints
basically both parties isreal and hezbollah are violationing UN relolution 1701 which will lead to another war/skirmish pretty soon. hopefully un troops dont get caught in the middle of it..
wittmanace
Active Member
i seems clear that these simulated attacks would hurt the israelis in as much as UNIFIL will be alot less likely to turn a blind eye to recce mssions that violate the ceasefire. if the israelis refrained from these acts then one wonders if UNIFIL might have made alot less fuss about the recce missions. this is no moral or any other observation, simply an observation of the consequences of the simulated attacks. one also has to bear in mind the shelling of the un during the war, and Annan saying this seemed deliberate, this wont be far from unifil'shoughts when hese simulatd attacks take place.
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