Turkish M60A1 upgrade

[swerve]

I refer to the Israeli major rebuild (more than an upgrade, really) of the M60A1, for which a new factory has been built in Kayseri. 120mm gun, more armour, new FCS, new engine, new tracks . . .

As I understand it, a contract has been signed for 170 tanks to be rebuilt. Has anyone any knowledge of
1) the progress of the work?
2) what is happening vis-a-vis the additional M60 which might be rebuilt? AFAIK Turkey has about 900 M60.
3) whether the purchase of used Leopard 2A4 has affected 2)?

 

[beleg]

The first tank has completed winter and summer tests including live fire tests, and was accepted by SSM in June. Its said that several hundered rounds were burned and the test results were satisfiying. Currently additional prototypes are being re-built (second one is supposed to be under test now) and if they also pass the tests mass production will start in next year if i recall correctly.

To answer 2 and 3, we must realise that this was just a gap filler project until the 2000 tank tender conlcluded. However since that failed Turkey had to seek additional MBTs to secure the western front(Leo2A4s). I dont think modernisation of more M-60s are likely when there is abundant amounts of Leo2A4s out there which Turkish industry can modernise very effectively.

 

[Soner1980]

Turkey has 29 Leopard-2A4's in it's inventory today. The Leopard-2A4's will undergo some upgrades to match the tank with todays standards. I have a picture that the Leopard-2A4 will be equiped with a longer 120mm (possibly L-55) smoothbore gun, a Turkish state-of-the-art thermal imager, new optics mounted on the roof instead of in front, possibly some extra armor plates on it.

I think that this tank is able to match the Greek Leopard-2A6 in the future.

Also, the M60A1 will undergo a very good modernisation. The Sabra Mk.2 is able to match the Leopard-2A4. I think that Turkey has an option to modernize it's M60 fleet with this package, but Israel will get 50% interest for each tank.

I think Turkey will use the M60A3's to replace the aging M48 and the M60's will be replaced by the more modern Leopard-2 and the Sabra. In 2015, there will be a brand new Turkish tank rolling out of the factory to replace the older MBT's...

 

[Soner1980]

Here is the pic with the upgrade offer by ASELSAN. Notice the long barrel and the new optics on the roof...

Soner

 

[swerve]

Here is the pic with the upgrade offer by ASELSAN. Notice the long barrel and the new optics on the roof...

Soner

Interesting. Are my eyes deceiving me, or is there some extra armour on the front of the turret, but in line with the old armour? i.e. not like the Leopard 2A5/6 angled plates.

What's the L55 gun? Same Rheinmetall one as the A6?

 

[Soner1980]

It seems like it is the same barrel like in the A6 version. But about extra armor, I don't think that there is extra armor shown in the picture. But I think Turkey will up-armor it with some metal plates or even ERA when the Helenic army receives their first Leo-2A6. Turkey has been in 'contact' with Pakistan to buy Composite armor plating technology for the Turkish Tank project what will start in the end of this decade.

We all know that Turkish Army MBT's does not wear ERA plates or other armor in peace times or against the PKK terrorist just to give the 'enemy' the look of decent Turkish tanks are beaten quickly by AT warheads. Turkey never unveiled new weapons, like the in Turkey produced WS-1 rockets, it was in 1996 produced and 10 years later we have seen it in our Victory Day august the 30th last month.

 

[beleg]

Soner that modernisation was proposed by Aselsan but we dont know if the deal with the Germans allows such a modernisation to be locally done. After all these tanks were not "donated" but "bought" and in such agreements usually the government that makes the sale tries to make their companies profit more.

So i am not sure if Aselsans proposal is likely at least for several years.

 

[Soner1980]

Me neiter, but there is a need of some explanation by the dealer and TAF that ASELSAN has been prohibited for any upgrade. Anyway, we can do one thing: Just wait.

 

[Waylander]

I hope there is a point in the contract which denies an upgrade by turkish companies.
Our industry needs the money.

 

[Soner1980]

You hope, we pope (hijacker thing..haha)

But I always say that a local upgrade is always better than upgrading abroad. Ofcourse for Germany it is good to upgrade everything in Germany, for Turkey it is better to upgrade in Turkey... It's all about the benjamins don't???

I havn't seen the contract with my own eyes yet tommorow I will see haha...

 

[PlasmaKrab]

Soner, that upgrade proposal looks like the Leo2A6 without the extra armour (L55 gun, commander sight on the rear roof, i.e. hunter-killer FCS?). COuld it be that the Turkish forces (or Aselsan) got the money or the authorizations for only a part of the upgrades?

BTW, what about that new MBT that would be "rolling out of the factory" by 2015? Any data on the project requirements and schedule?

 

[Waylander]

The Leo had Hunter-Killer capabilities from the beginning on just the TI is new in the new commanders sight.
Or did I get your statement wrong? (Not my week till now )

 

[PlasmaKrab]

OK, misread my source for "night hunter-killer ability" I think, my bad.
So you tell me that from the beginning a Leo2 commander had the ability to automatically transfer targets to the gunner, and that the whole FC system was left unchanged by the A1 to A6 upgrades?

Sorry for the off-topic digression, but I just need to get that right.
Thanks for the correction, Waylander!

 

[Waylander]

Jap, the commander had this ability from the beginning on.
There has been changes in the FC system. In the A4 the FCs changed from analogue to digital which gave them better and faster fire solution. From A5 on the FCs changed has been improved again with the main improvement being a much faster fire solution.
With A5 the peri moved from the front of the turret more backwards and more to the middle and received a TI. The commander know uses a flat screen instead of a monocular to see the images of its peri or to switch to gunners sight to control what he sees and does.

 

[Soner1980]

The Turkish tank that will 'roll out from the factory' is a whole new project. Turkey plans to built their own MBT for the next decade.

More information is not available today but the engine and transmission build proposal is first done by HEMA endustri.

Look at the www.ssm.gov.tr site for more info.

Soner, that upgrade proposal looks like the Leo2A6 without the extra armour (L55 gun, commander sight on the rear roof, i.e. hunter-killer FCS?). COuld it be that the Turkish forces (or Aselsan) got the money or the authorizations for only a part of the upgrades?

BTW, what about that new MBT that would be "rolling out of the factory" by 2015? Any data on the project requirements and schedule?

 

[fylr71]

The upgraded M60 although much improved is still a first generation tank on par with India's T-72 upgrade (Project Rhino) and is inferior to Leo2A4 or any modern western tank.

 

[PlasmaKrab]

In some aspects, the Sabra upgrade is superior to the 'plugin' Tank-EX upgrade, or its US equivalent the M-60-200 aka M-60/2000 in that the chassis is thorougly improved.
Most of the hardware is directly taken off the Merkava Mk3, including the main gun and part of the FCS. The final FC should be sub-par compared to new tanks, since the TC doesn't have his own panoramic thermal sight. Ergo, FC abilities more on par with the M1A1.
I don't know what amount of armour has been added though, probably just slightly better than the latest Magach-7C.

All in all, something more in line with 80s standard, but yet, way to go compared to the old vanilla M-60A1!

 

[Soner1980]

I think the Sabra Mk.2 comes close or even equal to the Leopard 2A4 and the first of the M1A1's from the 1985-88 era. The FC is newer than the standard Sabra Mk.2 upgrade. Turkey has made choices of some other systems to fit for the Turkish army. And the LAHAT (Laser Homing Anti Tank) missile gives some extra killing power in long range engagement.

Also, the composite armor can be reinforced with other armor to like ERA or with more composite armor in critical places. Only the mobility is the same with a more powerfull engine ( 908 hp) and more armor added.

Overall, the Sabra Mk.2 is far better than the latest M60A3 and can bet used against the worlds best tanks used today.

 

[Waylander]

It is for sure a bad ass in defensive positions but if it comes to a more mobile combat the mobility of the Sabra could be a problem.

 

[Soner1980]

That's the reason the Sabra will be fielded in the southern Anatolia against the PKK, Iran and Armenia. Also possible in Cyprus but I think the Leo-2A4 will be fielded there. Altough, the Sabra Mk.2 will replace the M48 series from the Turkish Army.