Stick grenades

STURM

Well-Known Member
Curious about stick grenades.

1. Do any countries still use stick grenades - as far as I know China and the Soviet Union were still stick grenade users up till the late 1980's.

2. Is it just a myth or are stick grenades, by virtue of having a handle, able to be thrown much further than other grenades?
 

DNAz

New Member
1. Apart from insurgents that use soviet stick grenades I dont think so.
No need for the range if there is UGLs.
Not to mention its awkward for room clearing/rolling.

2. It can be thrown further....think its the balance of weapon not the handle itself.
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Curious about stick grenades.

1. Do any countries still use stick grenades - as far as I know China and the Soviet Union were still stick grenade users up till the late 1980's.
Why do you think this?
 

NICO

New Member
Are grenades really used that much anymore? Haven't heard much about uses in Afghanistan or Iraq. Seem always very popular in Hollywood movies :D but today in real conflicts are they still valid?
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
They are still used. How frequently, I don't know, but they are still issued and expended.
 

Todjaeger

Potstirrer
Are grenades really used that much anymore? Haven't heard much about uses in Afghanistan or Iraq. Seem always very popular in Hollywood movies :D but today in real conflicts are they still valid?
Grenades are still very much in use. They are also becoming more common amongst some LEA within the US, mostly for ERU/SWAT-type units, but some common 'patrol' units are starting to get issued/carry grenades as well. Mostly 'flashbangs' but also some other types as well. It is becoming common enough that I can walk into a local uniform/equipment store (mostly catering to postal workers and First Responders) and they stock Molle grenade/flashbang pouches like this one.

Something which really has not changed is the effectiveness of something like a grenade (frag or concussion) when used against an indirect target in tight or confined quarters. Whether it is a search or strike vs. a building or compound, or eliminating or supressing an enemy firing position, being able to lob a grenade into or near the target is going to at least cause the hostiles to keep their heads down and in, if it does not disorient, injure or kill them.

-Cheers
 

kato

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Germany uses grenade simulators in stick grenade form - the DM12, some HE wrapped in styrofoam to produce a loud bang ;)
 

lopez

Member
Curious about stick grenades.

1. Do any countries still use stick grenades - as far as I know China and the Soviet Union were still stick grenade users up till the late 1980's.

2. Is it just a myth or are stick grenades, by virtue of having a handle, able to be thrown much further than other grenades?
there is a video on YouTube of a Chinese recruit nearly blowing himself up with a stick grenade...(not saying that to disrespect the Chinese military in any way)

and it is very recent judging by the uniform and equipment.

found a link
 

STURM

Well-Known Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #10
Why do you think this?
There were at least a couple of books published in the mid-1980's which mentioned that the Soviets were still using a pacticular kind of stick grenade, I forgot the designation. There were even photos. Some early photos taken in Afghanistan showed troops [I think VDV] with stick grenades. As for China, there was a photo in Newsweek that appeared in 1990 or 1991 showing troops throwing stick grenades during a practice session.

Off topic but both countries were also using side car combinations till the early 1980's. Not sure if they had MGs mounted though.
 

wormhole

New Member
Its only recently that I realized that grenades could be characterized as defensive or offensive. Wouldn't stick grenades be more applicable as defensive grenades since they can be thrown much farther, minimizing possible danger to friendly troops arising from fragmentation?
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
There were at least a couple of books published in the mid-1980's which mentioned that the Soviets were still using a pacticular kind of stick grenade, I forgot the designation. There were even photos. Some early photos taken in Afghanistan showed troops [I think VDV] with stick grenades. As for China, there was a photo in Newsweek that appeared in 1990 or 1991 showing troops throwing stick grenades during a practice session.
That answers the question. Thanks. I wasn't aware of this, hence why I inquired.

Off topic but both countries were also using side car combinations till the early 1980's. Not sure if they had MGs mounted though.
You mean motor-cycles?
 

Twinblade

Member
Are grenades really used that much anymore? Haven't heard much about uses in Afghanistan or Iraq. Seem always very popular in Hollywood movies :D but today in real conflicts are they still valid?
They were used extensively in Kargil, where bunkers, rocks and steep slope provided ample cover even at very short ranges. The militants sitting on top of the cliff were able to lob them at great distances because of the steep slope.
 

RobWilliams

Super Moderator
Staff member
2. Is it just a myth or are stick grenades, by virtue of having a handle, able to be thrown much further than other grenades?
I remember having a discussion with my maths teacher about this, i think the explanation was that the stick acts as a lever in its mechanics and increases the force acting on the charge at the end thus increasing its range.
 

STURM

Well-Known Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #15
I remember having a discussion with my maths teacher about this, i think the explanation was that the stick acts as a lever in its mechanics and increases the force acting on the charge at the end thus increasing its range.
You were having a discussion on the merits of stick grenades with your teacher?
Just out of curiosity, what kind of school do/did you attend :) ?

You mean motor-cycles?
Yes motor cycles but they probably fell out of use by the late 1980's or earlier.
 

RobWilliams

Super Moderator
Staff member
You were having a discussion on the merits of stick grenades with your teacher?
Just out of curiosity, what kind of school do/did you attend :) ?
Well, it was a Mechanics lesson about levers, moments and the like about how it increases the force etc :)

It was just a regular UK Secondary School with a 6th form, no military college or defence academy, just a school with a maths teacher interested in warfare :)
 

Chino

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
I have thrown one live grenade, SFG 87, as a recruit nearly 30 years ago. Plus some smoke grenades and other training pyrotechnics.

(My experience is only as a conscript, not in any way professional.)

I am a shxt bad thrower, never having played any games that gave me the right throwing practice. I had a few comical experiences. One where the smoke grenade I threw uphill hit a tree branch, rolled down the hill, and smoked our own position. Another time I tossed a "thunderflash" - a giant firecracker to simulate grenades - round a corner into a bunker in a trench system. It hit the zinc lined trench sides and bounced back and landed next to my ass. I didn't see cos my head was turned away from the expected blast. I found out at the last moment and managed to jump clear out of the shoulder high trench at the last moment in record time.

Anyway, back to stick vs ball. There is no question that "ball" shape has won over the stick. Firstly, there is less need to throw grenades to great distances since we now have at least one to two grenade launchers per section. They not only launch grenades far, but also with great accuracy.

Stick grenades are not economical space-wise to carry on the person. Also, the handle cannot be too light to act as a "lever" during throw, so they offer a weight penalty.

In Korean War the British described PLA stick grenades as less lethal than their own Mills Bomb. The PLA at the time had dedicated "grenadiers" who carry only bags of hand grenades and no firearm.

One thing ball grenades does is that you can count on them to roll - to varying degrees depending on round or oval shape, and hardness of the ground. The Brits in Korea mentioned tossing Mills Bombs downhill and let them roll towards the enemy.

(Lacking real experience with stick grenades) I guess a stick grenade would roll less distance.

I threw a metal ball grenade simulator during CQB training. Again, this has the nasty habit of hitting walls or other object and rolling away from your target, or worse, rolling/bouncing back towards you.

Modern grenades mostly uses ball-bearings as mentioned. Another interesting development is that a Swiss company produces grenades that have an additional layer of ball bearings coated on the OUTSIDE of the grenade, and is held in place with some kind of resin. AND, they also come in mini size. So the selling point is that they are small, thus easy to carry (as well as carry more) and throw further, but still pack a hefty punch due to more ball-bearing per grenade owed to the extra layer of ball bearings.
 

PCShogun

New Member
Curious about stick grenades.
2. Is it just a myth or are stick grenades, by virtue of having a handle, able to be thrown much further than other grenades?
Stick grenades can be thrown further. The handle essentially extends the length of the arm, allowing the head to attain a faster velocity, similar to an 'Atlatl' spear thrower.
 

Ananda

The Bunker Group
Say what you like. but Wehrmacht Model 24 stielhandgranate is really coll :smilie. Is the best in my mind of all hand grenade throughout the WW 2. Actually I think stick grenade is more effective and safer for personal that used them compared to round grenade.

But being more bulky and with the advancement of Riffle Grenade, I think the advantage of stick grenade being push by riffle grenade (for one), while ergonomically wise, for soldier this days, round/ball hand grenade take more importance then having larger hand grenade like the Stick ones.
 

STURM

Well-Known Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #20
Another interesting development is that a Swiss company produces grenades that have an additional layer of ball bearings coated on the OUTSIDE of the grenade, and is held in place with some kind of resin. AND, they also come in mini size.
Very interesting. I wonder if this the RUAG grenade that is the standard issue grenade of the British and Malaysian army.
 
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