Replacement for the SAW?

[F-15 Eagle]

Does anybody know any news about the Infantry Automatic Rifle(IAR)? It is supposed to replace the M249 SAW in the U.S. Military. It is basicly a M4 but with a heaveir barrel, it is magazine feed not belt feed using M16 mags. I saw it on a show called Future Weapons as anyone who has saw the show knows it is only a advertising show to show off the latest weapons designed by defense companies. Maybe there really is not a replacement for the SAW. If anyone knows anything that would be nice. In my own opinion I don't think they should replace the SAW with its 200 round belts with a upgraded M4 that only has 30 round mags. Its like replacing a LMG with a assualt rifle. But I don't know.

 

[SuperSLime]

In my own opinion I don't think they should replace the SAW with its 200 round belts with a upgraded M4 that only has 30 round mags. Its like replacing a LMG with a assualt rifle. But I don't know.

We replaced the section light-role GPMG with the L86 LSW, which is an SA80 rifle with a longer, heavier barrel and a bipod.

It was a disaster.

We have now adopted the Minimi Para as the section LMG, with the L86A2s retained as Designated Marksman's Rifles which they are actually rather good at. Magazine-fed 5.56mm LMGs are pretty rubbish. They just can't generate enough fire.

Also, heavy barrelled rifle-type LMGs don't have a barrel change mechanism and aren't really robust enough to put out a lot of fire. I once put 6-700 rounds through an L86A1 in less than an hour and it seized up solid through fouling and heating. I had to use a rod, stuck down the barrel and whacked with a hammer, to get the bolt open.

 

[F-15 Eagle]

We replaced the section light-role GPMG with the L86 LSW, which is an SA80 rifle with a longer, heavier barrel and a bipod.

It was a disaster.

We have now adopted the Minimi Para as the section LMG, with the L86A2s retained as Designated Marksman's Rifles which they are actually rather good at. Magazine-fed 5.56mm LMGs are pretty rubbish. They just can't generate enough fire.

Also, heavy barrelled rifle-type LMGs don't have a barrel change mechanism and aren't really robust enough to put out a lot of fire. I once put 6-700 rounds through an L86A1 in less than an hour and it seized up solid through fouling and heating. I had to use a rod, stuck down the barrel and whacked with a hammer, to get the bolt open.

Nice another horrible weapon designed to replace a well proven weapon. You'd think the U.S. Military would have learned from experience that the M16A1 and the L86 don't produce enough fire, that you don't use a automatic rifle for a job that was meant for a LMG. But I guess we have to learn the hard way a second time around....no surprise.

 

[Cutaway]

Does anybody know any news about the Infantry Automatic Rifle(IAR)? It is supposed to replace the M249 SAW in the U.S. Military. It is basicly a M4 but with a heaveir barrel, it is magazine feed not belt feed using M16 mags. I saw it on a show called Future Weapons as anyone who has saw the show knows it is only a advertising show to show off the latest weapons designed by defense companies. Maybe there really is not a replacement for the SAW. If anyone knows anything that would be nice. In my own opinion I don't think they should replace the SAW with its 200 round belts with a upgraded M4 that only has 30 round mags. Its like replacing a LMG with a assualt rifle. But I don't know.

It would be a stupid move if they did switch over to it from the Minimi. Its possible the ARES Shrike would replace it though as its lighter and could share parts with the M16. Really the Shrike is more of a 'Device' than a LMG as it is an upper reciever designed to be compatible with the M16 series.

 

[SuperSLime]

It would be a stupid move if they did switch over to it from the Minimi. Its possible the ARES Shrike would replace it though as its lighter and could share parts with the M16. Really the Shrike is more of a 'Device' than a LMG as it is an upper reciever designed to be compatible with the M16 series.

The ARES Shrike? In lever-delayed blowback perhaps? Never mind the fact that the company only ever managed to deliver ten of them; it's too light for full-auto fire and doesn't have a single advantage over the Minimi. The only viable replacements for the Minimi are the HK MG4 or, in a proper calibre, the MAG-58 GPMG or MG3. But why bother; the Minimi is fine.

 

[Cutaway]

The HK MG4 would be good but it lacks the mag insert of the Minimi therefore slightly limiting its uses.

I know the M60's are kak but i admit they have the best ergonomics for a GPMG, I held a deac one at an airshow some time ago and was nice to handle but performance is more important at the end of the day.

I came up with the greatest idea: Keep the bloody Minimi and make use of it.

 

[SuperSLime]

The HK MG4 would be good but it lacks the mag insert of the Minimi therefore slightly limiting its uses.

The mag well is useless and is being deleted from some new Minimi versions. If HK thought it was a good idea they'd have included one.

I know the M60's are kak but i admit they have the best ergonomics for a GPMG

You're kidding, right? The GPMG has much better ergonomics; all the controls are right where they want to be and it's a good steady gun. The M60 is a bastard abortion that should never have seen the light of day.

I came up with the greatest idea: Keep the bloody Minimi and make use of it.

Er yes, that's what I said.

 

[Aussie Digger]

The mag well is useless and is being deleted from some new Minimi versions. If HK thought it was a good idea they'd have included one.



You're kidding, right? The GPMG has much better ergonomics; all the controls are right where they want to be and it's a good steady gun. The M60 is a bastard abortion that should never have seen the light of day.



Er yes, that's what I said.

I'd go one step slightly further. Keep the Minimi, yes, but introduce this as well:

http://www.fnherstal.com/html/Index.htm

Er, scroll down a bit, select "new 7.62mm Minimi" button then go in and "click here to find out more" and you'll see what I was referring to...

Along with the FN SCAR, neatly helps solve those "range/lethality" issues that apparently are a problem...

 

[SuperSLime]

I'd go one step slightly further. Keep the Minimi, yes, but introduce this as well:

http://www.fnherstal.com/html/Index.htm

Along with the FN SCAR, neatly helps solve those "range/lethality" issues that apparently are a problem...

Hmmm... yes, I've seen that. Probably best for SF though; it looks a bit light for normal infantry use if you were going to bring back 7.62 at Section level (PLEASE!!!!!), whereas the GPMG can double as an SF gun.

Me, I'd have been quite happy to keep my old L1A1 but I wouldn't say no to a SCAR-H

 

[Aussie Digger]

Hmmm... yes, I've seen that. Probably best for SF though; it looks a bit light for normal infantry use if you were going to bring back 7.62 at Section level (PLEASE!!!!!), whereas the GPMG can double as an SF gun.

Me, I'd have been quite happy to keep my old L1A1 but I wouldn't say no to a SCAR-H

I think it's the "duck's guts" meeself. It would certainly beat lugging a 13kg MAG-58 over the scrub any day of the week. At 8.6kg's, it's about the same as an L2A1 and I know what I'd rather...

I agree that the normal Minimi isn't well suited to the sustained fire role, but this features a longer heavier barrel and (I believe) a slightly heavier (aka "meatier") receiver, so perhaps it handles the rapid fire a bit better?

I know what you mean about the SCAR's though. They are indeed a gucci bit of kit. On looks alone, they are my favourite rifle at present...

 

[Chino]

The Minimi, Negev, etc, are scaled down GPMGs.

The RPK, LSW etc are scaled up assault rifles.

At this point, the mag-fed Ultimax 100 is the only weapon that best fit the job description of SAW.

If the US had adopted the Ultimax 100 instead of the Minimi, maybe the USMC won't be wasting time and money now looking for a "IAR".:

 

[F-15 Eagle]

I highly doubt that the U.S. military will just give up the 200 round SAW for the 30 round IAR. I mean they already have M4/M4A1s and M16A4s for the so called 30 round automatic weapon. The IAR is not even a machine gun, just a rifle like the M4.

 

[kotay]

I highly doubt that the U.S. military will just give up the 200 round SAW for the 30 round IAR. I mean they already have M4/M4A1s and M16A4s for the so called 30 round automatic weapon. The IAR is not even a machine gun, just a rifle like the M4.

Will it sound better if it's rephrased as "The USMC is looking for a 30/100 round magazine IAR"?

ie. ability to use standard 30 round mags as well as a 100 mag (either dum like U100 or C-Mag)

 

[Cutaway]

The Vektor SS-77 is 7.62 but also comes in 5.56.

Quote from http://world.guns.ru/machine/mg13-e.htm:

It should be noted that according to some experts the SS-77 is one of the words best universal machinegus, along with Belgian MAG-58, Russian PKM and German MG-3.

 

[F-15 Eagle]

Will it sound better if it's rephrased as "The USMC is looking for a 30/100 round magazine IAR"?

ie. ability to use standard 30 round mags as well as a 100 mag (either dum like U100 or C-Mag)

Yeah but even then, 100 rounds is still only half that of the SAW which carries 200 rounds. Thats still only half the volume of fire that the SAW does. In my opinion its not even worth it, just keep the SAW.

 

[Chino]

Yeah but even then, 100 rounds is still only half that of the SAW which carries 200 rounds. Thats still only half the volume of fire that the SAW does. In my opinion its not even worth it, just keep the SAW.

Why not 300rd?

Why not 500rd?

Why is 200rd belt better than a 100rd drum?

Don't just throw numbers around. Please share your thinking.

 

[lobbie111]

Why not 300rd?

Why not 500rd?

Why is 200rd belt better than a 100rd drum?

Don't just throw numbers around. Please share your thinking.

to me 200 rounds is the best balance between weight and ammo capacity, plus you don't have to reload as often. Although does anyone have the dimensions of the box compared with the dimensions of that of the Ultimax magazine?

 

[playtime]

to me 200 rounds is the best balance between weight and ammo capacity, plus you don't have to reload as often. Although does anyone have the dimensions of the box compared with the dimensions of that of the Ultimax magazine?

btw.. I would assume its much easier to reload a drum on the run than a belt.

 

[kato]

btw.. I would assume its much easier to reload a drum on the run than a belt.

No... not really. In particular with the right tools (belt loader / linker).

Drums can be a real bitch to load - unless they're belt drums.

 

[playtime]

No... not really. In particular with the right tools (belt loader / linker).

Drums can be a real bitch to load - unless they're belt drums.

what i meant was reloading the weapon, not the drum or belt per se.
I can reload a drum fed weapon (say U100 saw) on the run with no problem, reloading a a belt fed is another matter.