Go Back   DefenceTalk Forum - Military & Defense Forums > Global Defense & Military > Army & Security Forces

Defense News
Land, Air & Naval Forces






Military Photos
Latest Military Pictures
Defense Reports
Aerospace & Defence


The Indonesian Army

This is a discussion on The Indonesian Army within the Army & Security Forces forum, part of the Global Defense & Military category; Originally Posted by Chino Let's look at one the least discussed areas of the armed forces of Singapore, Malaysia and ...


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 11 votes, 3.64 average.
Old April 19th, 2010   #16
Defense Aficionado
Major General
No Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,346
Threads:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chino View Post
Let's look at one the least discussed areas of the armed forces of Singapore, Malaysia and Indonesia: Political power.
The Malaysian Armed Forces traditionally have steered away from poilitics and have no say in political matters or how the country is run. The same goes for Singapore.
I'm sure OPSSG will be able to elaborate more

Ananda, can you recomend any good online sources in English on the TNI-AD? I'm very interested in it's organisation. There was a very good Korps Marinir site in BI but I can't seem to find it any more.
STURM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 19th, 2010   #17
Senior Member
Colonel
Ananda's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,572
Threads:
Quote:
Originally Posted by STURM View Post
Ananda, can you recomend any good online sources in English on the TNI-AD? I'm very interested in it's organisation. There was a very good Korps Marinir site in BI but I can't seem to find it any more.
If you want to see the organisation structure and how it works, I think the guys that build TNI AD site in wiki doing pretty good job (quite suprissing considering what come in to wiki this days )

You can also visit the Official Site. However it's very general. Seems our Armed Forces still quite shy on disclosing themselves in the official site.

Unoffcially, the two blogs I recommeded to David in this thread was quite good for Indonesia Military news related. Condidering those two blogs consist mostly on the 'extracting' News, and not the Blog Owner point of view.

The rest yo have to scry over several news online outlet like KOMPAS.com ; http://www.mediaindonesia.com; Majalah Defender | Teknologi - Taktik dan Pengetahuan Militer or Official Antara (Indonesian News Agency) site. There are other web site, blog site, and other Indonesia forum chat that yo can visit from time to time, however mostly talk on Nationalistic bravado, and only occasionally you can get 'real' news.

Sadlly mostly in Bahasa, but the big ones usually alraedy connect to Google Translation.
Ananda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 19th, 2010   #18
Defense Professional / Analyst
Captain
No Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Singapore, Shanghai
Posts: 653
Threads:
To both Ananda & Sturm

Thanks for your feedback.

Actually, I don't quite know how to position SAF in terms of whether they are politicised or not.

But SAF officers often move on to take very senior position in the government. Out PM for one. And several others including Brig Gens and Admirals etc. They don't completely relinquish their military titles often having something like "Brig Gen (ret)" attached to their names.

If you ask me, I think the MAF is the least politicised of the three military.

Corporal (ret) Chino
Chino is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 19th, 2010   #19
Defense Professional / Analyst
Chief Warrant Officer
No Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Germany
Posts: 432
Threads:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ananda View Post
@David, no I haven't heard any follow up on Anoa besides the current 150. Anoa supposedly to replace the Old Avis Whelled Armoured Vehicles. Thus with the Old Avis gone, the Inventory of Wheeled APC in the Army will consist of Cadilac-Gage V 150, VAB, and Anoa.
Yes, that would seem to be the logical step. But from what I read so far, things are different. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

The old Alvis vehicles are used by the cavalry battalions (Yonkav). But the Anoas all go to other units, like the newly created Mechanised Infantry battalion (Yonif Mekanis 201) which was normal light infantry before and did not have any armored vehicles. So it appears that the cavalry battalions will have to stick with their Alvis vehicles for quite some time.

That's why I asked about a possible follow-up order. Maybe you've heard something about that matter.

But thanks so far for your informative answers
DavidDCM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 20th, 2010   #20
Senior Member
Colonel
Ananda's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,572
Threads:
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidDCM View Post
Yes, that would seem to be the logical step. But from what I read so far, things are different. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

The old Alvis vehicles are used by the cavalry battalions (Yonkav). But the Anoas all go to other units, like the newly created Mechanised Infantry battalion (Yonif Mekanis 201) which was normal light infantry before and did not have any armored vehicles. So it appears that the cavalry battalions will have to stick with their Alvis vehicles for quite some time.
David, problem is no official distribution lists so far for all those 154 Anoa's. Those 3 new Mechanised Infrantry Batalions could be have composite forces of Cadilac Gage Commando Families (V 150, V 100 and Scout), VAB and Anoa (just like the Mechanised Batalions in Jakarta Military District Command/ Kodam V).

I still see some of Anoa's will be used as Alvis APC (sarracen) replacements since the lattest data only show 50's of them still operational. Further from sources here, it's been stated from Army Maintanances that further upgrading of The Sarracen was stop after 15 vehicles, due to inspections review show upgrading costs for the rest was about the half of acquisition costs simmilar number of Anoa.

So far Pindad try to get export order for Anoa to keep production line open after the 154 order from the Army. They try to sell it to Malaysia and stated already getting interest from Sri Lanka. Afterall with simmilar capabilities with VAB, Anoa's dirt cheap .

Possible hinted that Pindad expect further order for Anoa (at least dommestically), was the anouncement from Pindad in March that they're negotiating with Mercedes Benz for Anoa's engine ANTARA News: Pindad Jajaki Mesin Panser Dari Mercedes. I say it's possible hint, since all current Anoa's productions used Renault Engine.

One thing for sure though, Maintaining Mercedes Diesel is more economical in Indonesia compared to Renault ones, since the populations of Mercedes Diesel in here was quite abundant (second only to Hino). Further Mercedes Indonesia do have Diesel engine manufacturing facilities near Jakarta, although current line smaller then the requirements for Anoa.
Ananda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 21st, 2010   #21
Defense Professional / Analyst
Chief Warrant Officer
No Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Germany
Posts: 432
Threads:
Okay, so we just have to wait to see what will happen.

The presidential guard (Paspampres) also received some Anoas, and I think they used them to replace the Cadillac Gage Rangers they operated before. So at least one obsolete vehicle has already been replaced by the Anoa
DavidDCM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 22nd, 2010   #22
Senior Member
Colonel
Ananda's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,572
Threads:
Anoa's First Export Order ?

From Antara News Agency with Google Translation:

Quote:
Kuala Lumpur (ANTARA News) - PT Pindad and WGR Malaysia, in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia, agreed on the sale of six armored 6x6 "Anoa" Pindad production. The deal was outlined in a memorandum of understanding signed by both parties in the arena of "defenses Services Asia Exhibition and conference in 2010", in Kuala Lumpur, Thursday.

Signing was witnessed by Minister of Defense and Minister of State Yusgiantoro Mustafa Abubakar. Pindad a 6x6 armored personnel carrier armored vehicles with symmetry-wheel drive system designed specifically for the army, especially cavalry.

This armored vehicle can carry 10 personnel with three crew, a commander, and a "gunner." It is also equipped with a "mounting" 12.7 mm gun that can rotate 360 degrees.
It's only Six, and it's not clear whether this MoU means still an agreement to purchase, or already a firm order. Still it's the first export order if being realise, and not a bad job for Pindad who just few years ago still strugling to build an armoured vehicles.

Malaysia seems indicated wants to have 8x8 whelled armoured carriers as the standard. Anoa's is 6x6, frankly speaking I don't know if there's significant differences in capabilities between 6x6 and 8x8 configurations (besides the number of wheels). One thing for sure assides small number of the BTR-80 that's being used by the Marines and old Army Panhard, TNI as far as i can gather, stick to 4x4 and 6x6 as standard.
Ananda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 22nd, 2010   #23
Defense Professional / Analyst
Chief Warrant Officer
No Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Germany
Posts: 432
Threads:
I believe the six Anoas are for immediate use in Lebanon. Malaysian troops there are riding around in the Condor APC, which needs urgent replacement due to heavy wear & tear. They don't want to wait until the 8x8 has arrived in four or five years, so they buy the Anoas off the shelf because they can probably send them to Lebanon before the end of 2010. It's a stop-gap solution.

But congrats to Pindad for their first export deal!
DavidDCM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 11th, 2010   #24
Senior Member
Colonel
Ananda's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,572
Threads:
Pindad Ammo Productions Capabilities

From Defence Ministry Site with Google Translate:

Quote:
Jakarta, DMC, Pindad has a strong tradition in the field of design and production of weapons and ammunition.The principal activity of PT. Pindad is to do business tools and equipment that can support independent policy in the field of defense and security.

Viewed from the products, Pindad consists of two directorates of the Directorate of Military Products and Commercial Products. Military Products Division and the Directorate of Ammunition, Weapons Division and Business Unit Workshop and Prototype. While the Directorate of Commercial Products Division and the Mechanical, Electrical, Forging and Casting, Business Unit Tool Shop, Stamping and Laboratory.

Ammunition Division production facilities are located in Turen, Malang, East Java, to meet the demand of the government and also product development, production facility is equipped with the establishment of Filling Plant to support the production of mortar shells, bombs, TNT blocks, shaped charges and other.

Currently, Ammunition Division, the division has become a reliable and is still capable of producing various types of ammunition and military supplies, pyrotechnics and equipment to support the needs of government and private. Almost all products Ammunition Division has gone through various tests in accordance with NATO standards and also the United States military. Research and development has been carried out to obtain an accurate analysis of product design and performance.

Chemical laboratory and testing facilities are also available to achieve the shots required standards. The production facility is now able to produce 9 mm caliber bullet, 5.56 mm (SS109 and M193), 7.62 mm, 12.7 mm, 0:38 ", and have filling plant, pyrotechnic, tool shop, stamping, and heat treatment .

To obtain high-quality products, continuity of production and supply, production facility maintenance carried out regularly and periodically. Skilled manpower trained in a professional field of production both inside and outside the country to improve human resources. Technical assistance is provided to guide the production process to produce the optimal product supply.

This division has also received ISO 9001 certificate from SGS International Certification Services Yearsly, Ltd., England in 1994. All production processes must meet this standard. One important element in applying this standard is to provide a system using Statistical Process Control (SPC).

PT.PINDAD Ammunition Plant Division is designed to produce approximately 150 million per year ammunition, mortars, and bombs with different calibers and sizes. The portion of the production of 5.56 mm caliber bullets cover of 75% of the total production. 5.56 mm caliber bullet is a bullet SS1 assault rifle is the weapon of organic TNI / police.

Pindad has also been able to make various bombs and sea mines filled with explosives up to 750 kg. Selain itu, In addition, PT Pindad also developed a bullet that can penetrate armor plate and then have the power to explode and burn. This bullet is paired with the weapons to sniper or snipers. Pindad already mastered the technology for small-caliber ammunition. From 2010 onward, PT Pindad will develop a large-caliber ammunition.20 mm caliber ammunition and 120 mm caliber has done its development in 2009.Later in the year 2010, PT Pindad plans to produce 105-mm caliber ammunition.

Later in 2011, warheads and missiles will be developed with a proximity fuse fashion.Proximity fuse causing the missile head would explode at a predetermined distance from the target. Proximity fuse technology uses a combination of one or more sensors include radar, active sonar, infrared, magnetic, electrical images. Not only that, PT Pindad also plans to produce Surface to Surface Missiles in 2012.
Nothing really big on this. Just show that Pindad still uses Conservatives Expansions strategy. Thus all still being done stage by stage, in line with the exisiting resources. 105 mm Ammo being developed since from 2008 Pindad already acquaired 105 mm Field Howitzer technology from Oto Melarra. Whille 120 mm ammo/warhead supposedly for Multiple Rocket launchers based on Russian 120mm MLRS design.
Ananda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 1st, 2010   #25
Defense Enthusiast
Lieutenant
No Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 525
Threads:
Some pictures i've taken last month during an exercise.
Attached Images
File Type: jpeg 931564430_5_A5c2.jpeg (89.5 KB, 26 views)
File Type: jpeg 931564900_5_qEh4.jpeg (72.6 KB, 22 views)
File Type: jpeg 931564473_5_80Um.jpeg (89.5 KB, 25 views)
File Type: jpeg 931564446_5_JLTF.jpeg (94.7 KB, 19 views)
File Type: jpeg 928939971_5_dL2M.jpeg (128.2 KB, 18 views)
File Type: jpeg 931564826_5_XLjD.jpeg (64.7 KB, 20 views)
Sandhi Yudha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 1st, 2010   #26
Defense Enthusiast
Lieutenant
No Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 525
Threads:
Second part of the pictures.
Attached Images
File Type: jpeg 931565215_5_pbRh.jpeg (70.0 KB, 16 views)
File Type: jpeg 931565167_5_F8UV.jpeg (43.0 KB, 16 views)
File Type: jpeg 931565538_5_A1Dn.jpeg (75.0 KB, 19 views)
File Type: jpeg 931565489_5_40Yl.jpeg (76.3 KB, 34 views)
Sandhi Yudha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 1st, 2010   #27
Defense Professional / Analyst
Chief Warrant Officer
No Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Germany
Posts: 432
Threads:
Thanks for these pics

Which units were involved? As I see a Scorpion, I suppose Kostrad was involved, but maybe you could tell us.
DavidDCM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 12th, 2010   #28
Senior Member
Colonel
Ananda's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,572
Threads:
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidDCM View Post
Ananda, yes the idea of Indonesia procuring a Main Battle Tank has been floating around in internet forums and blogs since many years, but that was only talk. But this time it was no blogger or random internet guy who said it, it was the commander of the armored corps himself.
Hi David, I got part of Article from Korea Times on Potential Indonesian Army MBT:

Quote:
Besides the K11 deal with the UAE, negotiations are being actively held on the exports of the K2 to Jordan, those of the K1A1 to Thailand and Indonesia, as well as the sale of the Harbor Underwater Surveillance System (HUSS) to Vietnam, Park said.
This is part of Article showing Korea capability and ambitions to become major player on World Defense market.
This's the only article so far that I got from Korea showing active negotiations in hand for exporting K1A1 MBT to Indonesia. In the early ofthis thread, I've stated from local sources that potential MBT will come from Russia and South Korea.
With Increasing defence agreement with South Korea (with Pindad for Armed Armoured Carriers, Development for Amphibious Amrmoured CArrires, with PAL for Potential Local Manufacturing of SSK, and IAe/DI for agreement on further development of CN 235 and potential join development as junior partner on KFX), I would not be surprises that K1A1 will have a better bargaining chip compared to T 90 as Indonesian Army first real MBT.
Ananda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 12th, 2010   #29
Defense Professional / Analyst
Chief Warrant Officer
No Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Germany
Posts: 432
Threads:
Yes, this is interesting news, thank you ananda!

But I'd still be cautious. Right now the only person claiming that there are negotiations is someone from the South Korean defence industry. And as such, his primary intention is to promote his own company. So as long as neither the South Korean government nor Indonesia does confirm that there are indeed negotiations about the K1A1, I will remain hesitant to accept this as a fact.
But still very good from you to inform us about this newspaper article, thank you again.
DavidDCM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 12th, 2010   #30
Senior Member
Colonel
Ananda's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,572
Threads:
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidDCM View Post
Yes, this is interesting news, thank you ananda!

But I'd still be cautious. Right now the only person claiming that there are negotiations is someone from the South Korean defence industry. And as such, his primary intention is to promote his own company. So as long as neither the South Korean government nor Indonesia does confirm that there are indeed negotiations about the K1A1, I will remain hesitant to accept this as a fact.
But still very good from you to inform us about this newspaper article, thank you again.
Agree with you. Like I said before MBT is not a priority right now. However with increasing potential defense projects that being circulated between Indonesia and South Korea, seems it's interesting for me to see how far any of this potential projects comming.
With increasingly current administrations motivated to improved local defense industry, South Korea come with several potential projects, which nearly all of them was being offered with local industry active participations.
Ananda is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:00 AM.