V-22 Osprey - damning report

[riksavage]

The following article paints a pretty damning picture of the Marine V22 Osprey

“V-22 Osprey: A Flying Shame?”

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/v-22-osprey-a-flying-shame-03930/#more

Lack of defensive armament, inability to auto-rotate in the event of engine failure and poor crew visibility are a number of real concerns. After reading the various comments I would be loathed to trust my life in one of these beasts, regardless of range and payload. The fact that if one rotor fails it will flip upside down and plunge to the ground scares me to death.

What if anything is a suitable alternative?

 

[radiosilence]

I don't think the Osprey program will be killed. The Osprey has been on the chopping block before and Congress overruled the SECDEF and continue funding the Osprey. Too much money has been invested in the program to kill it now. The problems mentioned in the article if true will have to be worked out in near future because there isn't any acceptable alternatives available out there AFAIK. I believe 10 Opsrey are in Iraq, it will be a good indicator how well it perform on the battlefield.

 

[qwerty223]

I don't think the Osprey program will be killed. The Osprey has been on the chopping block before and Congress overruled the SECDEF and continue funding the Osprey. Too much money has been invested in the program to kill it now. The problems mentioned in the article if true will have to be worked out in near future because there isn't any acceptable alternatives available out there AFAIK. I believe 10 Opsrey are in Iraq, it will be a good indicator how well it perform on the battlefield.

I agreed that Opsrey will be not cancel too, but there is 10 Opsrey in Iraq doesn't mean they are in good form too, instead a "controlled" "practical experience" is a good way to exam the new aircraft.

 

[radiosilence]

, but there is 10 Opsrey in Iraq doesn't mean they are in good form too,

I don't understand what you meant by this statement.

instead a "controlled" "practical experience" is a good way to exam the new aircraft.

There is no better place to test the Osprey than in the battlefield.

 

[qwerty223]

I don't understand what you meant by this statement.

It is very straight forward: They exist in Iraq not because they are doing well, instead they are taking advantage of the environment to exam the machines.

 

[Wale14]

It is very straight forward: They exist in Iraq not because they are doing well, instead they are taking advantage of the environment to exam the machines.

how can the v-22 osprey be doing well if it doesn't even have any competition in Iraq. sure there are firings from the ground or even iraqi SAMS but thats pretty rare. it lacks good aerodynamics and IMO it is a dangerous machine to fly.

 

[Tasman]

I would be loathed to trust my life in one of these beasts, regardless of range and payload. The fact that if one rotor fails it will flip upside down and plunge to the ground scares me to death.

This is the big issue for me with the Osprey. The armament issue can be fixed and other issues, such as poor seating and slow exit for troops, may be able to be improved. However, the thought of an unrecoverable upside down plunge if a rotor fails is totally unnacceptable, IMO, especially for a machine that is designed for use in a high risk combat environment.

Tas

 

[Izzy1]

This is the big issue for me with the Osprey. The armament issue can be fixed and other issues, such as poor seating and slow exit for troops, may be able to be improved. However, the thought of an unrecoverable upside down plunge if a rotor fails is totally unnacceptable, IMO, especially for a machine that is designed for use in a high risk combat environment.

Tas

Agreed.

My once positive views on Osprey have changed markedly having read the report yesterday. The lack of auto-rotate beggers belief and the general all-round safety of the vehicle seems to me now inherently flawed.

The momentum of the programme however seems now unstoppable.

 

[Miles]

Surely it would be a lot simpler to marinise the Chinook with folding blades? This would provide an excellent helicopter for the marines at a fraction of the cost of buying Ospreys. And it is battle proven. It can carry miniguns, and in Sierra Leone ("Operation Certain Death") the British Para's removed the many windows and used them as firing points.

 

[rossfrb_1]

Agreed.

My once positive views on Osprey have changed markedly having read the report yesterday. The lack of auto-rotate beggers belief and the general all-round safety of the vehicle seems to me now inherently flawed.

The momentum of the programme however seems now unstoppable.

You may be right, although the yanks do occasionally cancel big ticket items (comanche and sgt york come to mind).

A V-22 catastrophe in Iraq may very well be precipitous.

I wonder whether a change of government might be? They do have federal elections due in 2008.
rb

 

[barra]

Yes Tas, I hope that the ADF doesn't seriously consider buying these aircraft. Apart from being expensive, they have a bad safety reputation and chances of a catastrophic failure seem to be inherent in the design. I think we would be much better off with more Chinooks and a Tac Transporter.

"operation certain death" ? What the hell where the british MOD thinking Miles? LOL. Talk about instilling confidence and boosting the morale of your troops!!

Hooroo

 

[StingrayOZ]

I think some sort of naval chook would be a really great idea. Basically folding blades would be the secret improvement. I think they would be more suitable than the Osprey. You would have international customers falling over themselves for them. You can operate several off these smaller LHD's.

Some sort of Chook gunship could also be produced. Or offered as a upgrade pacakge.

For Australia I think Additional chinooks would be the ticket.

 

[radiosilence]

It is very straight forward: They exist in Iraq not because they are doing well, instead they are taking advantage of the environment to exam the machines.

Who said they exist in Iraq because they are "doing well"?

This is what i said in reference to the Osprey being sent to Iraq

I believe 10 Opsrey are in Iraq, it will be a good indicator how well it perform on the battlefield.

 

[Philipp]

The Pilots love their Osprey, nothing more needs to be said!

Philipp

 

[z1pp0]

... I believe 10 Opsrey are in Iraq, it will be...

AFAIK the Osprey are planed to deploy to Iraq in late spring 2008.

/Dan

 

[Miles]

Yes Tas, I hope that the ADF doesn't seriously consider buying these aircraft. Apart from being expensive, they have a bad safety reputation and chances of a catastrophic failure seem to be inherent in the design. I think we would be much better off with more Chinooks and a Tac Transporter.

"operation certain death" ? What the hell where the british MOD thinking Miles? LOL. Talk about instilling confidence and boosting the morale of your troops!!

Hooroo

Op Certain Death wasn't the official name, but what the soldiers called it! It is also the name of a book about it which is excellent, basically the SAS/SBS put a chinook over the rebel camp where the hostages were and pilled out while the chinook hovered above raining lead. On the otehr side of the river another landed a load pf paras who then attcked the other half of the campt. When a mortar took out their command team a young officer ordered "Fix bayonets!" and led a sucessful section attack. See:

http://www.damienlewis.com/damien-lewis-operation-certain-death.php

Anyway, back on thread, given the concerns about an Osprey loosing power on one rotor, what would happen on a chinook?

 

[radiosilence]

AFAIK the Osprey are planed to deploy to Iraq in late spring 2008.

/Dan

Sep 20, 2007
Squadron of Boeing-built Ospreys heads to Iraq

Members of Marine Medium Tiltrotor Squadron 263 and 10 Ospreys left Monday for Iraq from New River Air Station next to Camp Lejeune aboard the USS Wasp, Marine Maj. Eric Dent said.....

link

 

[Izzy1]

The Pilots love their Osprey, nothing more needs to be said!

Philipp

MODERATOR COMMENT

Care to expand on that and tell us why the pilots "love their Osprey"?

Otherwise I think its a one-liner and I refer you to the rules:

http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/rules.php

Thank You

 

[Tasman]

... given the concerns about an Osprey loosing power on one rotor, what would happen on a chinook?

Good question Miles. What is the situation with a twin rotor helo like the CH-47 or CH-46? Are they able to maintain any degree of control with one rotor to enable them to make an emergency descent before the failed rotor stops turning?

Tas

 

[barra]

Anyway, back on thread, given the concerns about an Osprey loosing power on one rotor, what would happen on a chinook?

I am not an expert on CH-47 powerplants and drivetrains but I am assuming that both engines are connected to the driveshaft of the front rotor hub so the loss of power in one engine is not catastrophic. I would also assume that such an incident would require the aircraft to land immediately particularly if it was carrying a heavy load. Loss of the drive shaft to the front rotor hub would on the other hand be catastrophic for a chook.
Simply, a Chinook can fly for long enough on one engine to land safely whereas an Osprey on one engine would be uncontrollable. (?)
BTW. Thanks for the info on that Op Certain Death, looks like a good read. Will have to go down to the bookstore and look it up.

Hooroo