SSO Engineer (ADF)

[13Beast]

Hi everyone,

I am a newbie to this forum, but figured it would be a good place to bounce some questions off the experienced folk in here

I am looking at studying Mechanical Engineering at a civilian university here in Australia, and hopefully qualifying for an undergraduate sponsorship from the ADF after my first year. I'm very interested in getting into an Aeronautical position with the Australian Army (working on choppers) or perhaps a similar role with the RAN/RAAF (choppers with the RAN, fixed wing with the RAAF). I also haven't ruled out a general M.Engineering role within the Army, or perhaps even a Marine Engineering role with the RAN, although these would be distant 2nd or 3rd choices, behind working within aviation in the ADF.

My one concern is that I am 32 years old, and can't see myself hitting university to start my degree until approximately 34 or 35 years old, which would then have me graduating at approximately 38-40 years old give or take.

I am currently in Japan and working quite a good sales job and putting savings away to help fund my endeavours at university when I return. I'd like to develop on my (brief so far) experience working in sales, as that should help a future life as an engineer as a civilian post-military, and may also enhance my attractiveness to the ADF as well. I will also need to budget 6-12 months to complete pre-requisite advanced maths and science units to qualify for Engineering at Uni (and a life as an SSO Engineering officer in the ADF).

My one burning question is; do I have a snowball's chance of actually getting an undergrad SSO sponsorship and later recruitment into the ADF at such an advanced age? Of course the general recruiting webpages state that people can be accepted well into their 50's, but I am curious as to the REAL hiring policy that takes place, and as to if I should re-adjust my plans accordingly.

If there are any current or former ADF Aeronautical/Mechanical/Marine Engineers, then I'd love to hear any advice you may have for me.

Much obliged,
David

 

[Raven22]

Hi everyone,

I am a newbie to this forum, but figured it would be a good place to bounce some questions off the experienced folk in here

I am looking at studying Mechanical Engineering at a civilian university here in Australia, and hopefully qualifying for an undergraduate sponsorship from the ADF after my first year. I'm very interested in getting into an Aeronautical position with the Australian Army (working on choppers) or perhaps a similar role with the RAN/RAAF (choppers with the RAN, fixed wing with the RAAF). I also haven't ruled out a general M.Engineering role within the Army, or perhaps even a Marine Engineering role with the RAN, although these would be distant 2nd or 3rd choices, behind working within aviation in the ADF.

My one concern is that I am 32 years old, and can't see myself hitting university to start my degree until approximately 34 or 35 years old, which would then have me graduating at approximately 38-40 years old give or take.

I am currently in Japan and working quite a good sales job and putting savings away to help fund my endeavours at university when I return. I'd like to develop on my (brief so far) experience working in sales, as that should help a future life as an engineer as a civilian post-military, and may also enhance my attractiveness to the ADF as well. I will also need to budget 6-12 months to complete pre-requisite advanced maths and science units to qualify for Engineering at Uni (and a life as an SSO Engineering officer in the ADF).

My one burning question is; do I have a snowball's chance of actually getting an undergrad SSO sponsorship and later recruitment into the ADF at such an advanced age? Of course the general recruiting webpages state that people can be accepted well into their 50's, but I am curious as to the REAL hiring policy that takes place, and as to if I should re-adjust my plans accordingly.

If there are any current or former ADF Aeronautical/Mechanical/Marine Engineers, then I'd love to hear any advice you may have for me.

Much obliged,
David

I'm not an engineer, although I do know quite a few. The biggest problem will be convincing the ADF you are a good investment. If the ADF is going to invest significant money into your education, they are going to want to know that you will return the favour by, number one, passing your studies, and number two giving significant service back to the ADF. This is the only reason age will be a barrier. Although of course policy states age is no discriminator, if the recruiter was trying to decide between a 19 year old candidate and a 40 year old candidate, they might choose the younger candidate because they are more likely to provide longer service to the ADF.

My advice is that you need to be able to demonstrate why you are a good investment to defence. The best way is to get consistently high marks in your studies. If you can point to a good academic record at least the recruiter will know you are probably going to pass your degree. Also, if you can point to a stable employment history where you have been loyal to whatever employer that will aid you as well. If you are the kind of guy who is forever quitting jobs and changing careers it will make you look like a bad investment.

In short, age shouldn't be a barrier as long as you can demonstrate why you are a good investment for the ADF (same as any other employer I imagine)

 

[13Beast]

Thanks for the advice. I agree completely with your view of how the ADF may look at candidates. I'm curious as to if the ADF may be more likely to sponsor me later in my studies (to see a larger body of educational results) or even as a graduate.

No doubt a younger person may have an edge in the ADF's eyes initially, and as a result they may be more willing to offer the undergrad sponsorships to those younger applicants.

That's pure speculation on my behalf though, and I'd hope they won't discriminate too much on age.

I'm just looking to plan my approach accordingly, and put myself in the most advantageous position to be granted an undergrad sponsorship, or failing that, to be hired as a new graduate into the system as an SSO.

I'm aware that it's extremely difficult for people the 'wrong' side of 30 to get looked at seriously for entry into RMC. Given that an SSO role is quite different, have the ADF tended to be more flexible in the age of SSO's they recruit?

 

[Raven22]

Thanks for the advice. I agree completely with your view of how the ADF may look at candidates. I'm curious as to if the ADF may be more likely to sponsor me later in my studies (to see a larger body of educational results) or even as a graduate.

Yeah, the more solid results you can put behind yourself the more attractive you will be.

I'm just looking to plan my approach accordingly, and put myself in the most advantageous position to be granted an undergrad sponsorship, or failing that, to be hired as a new graduate into the system as an SSO.

If you rock up to recruiting with a completed engineering degree, you will be hired on the spot. You'd have the recruiters fighting over you.

I'm aware that it's extremely difficult for people the 'wrong' side of 30 to get looked at seriously for entry into RMC. Given that an SSO role is quite different, have the ADF tended to be more flexible in the age of SSO's they recruit?

The problem with age going through RMC as a GSO is simply physical. The training conducted there is very robust, and service as a junior officer, particularly in the combat arms, even more so. The older the candidate the less likely they are to be able to keep up. For instance, the two oldest cadets in my class (aged 36 and 31 from memory) both failed to graduate. One broke his back and the other resigned because he couldn't keep up. An interesting fact - the average age of a British CO (battalion commander) at the end of WW1 was 28. You couldn't be a CO if you were over 35. This is because all the 50 year old COs at the start of the war couldn't cope with the demands of the battlefield.

As an SSO, as long as you can salute and play volleyball for PT, you'll be fine.

 

[13Beast]

If you rock up to recruiting with a completed engineering degree, you will be hired on the spot. You'd have the recruiters fighting over you.

My only concern then would be getting usurped by either other new grads rushing to work in the ADF in an interesting role such as aviation (all engineering jobs seem to be posted as a priority job listing), compounded with China putting the brakes on the resources boom, the ADF may attract a lot more new-grad engineers straight from Uni.

Having said that, the ADF presents a good salary and security for a new-grad engineer. But after a number of years in the civilian sector, a civvy engineer would easily surpass their military counterparts in income. Hopefully this translates to a high turnover of ADF engineering staff, and a constant influx of new engineers being recruited to take their place.

 

[Raven22]

My only concern then would be getting usurped by either other new grads rushing to work in the ADF in an interesting role such as aviation (all engineering jobs seem to be posted as a priority job listing), compounded with China putting the brakes on the resources boom, the ADF may attract a lot more new-grad engineers straight from Uni.

Having said that, the ADF presents a good salary and security for a new-grad engineer. But after a number of years in the civilian sector, a civvy engineer would easily surpass their military counterparts in income. Hopefully this translates to a high turnover of ADF engineering staff, and a constant influx of new engineers being recruited to take their place.

Mate, I can guarantee that if you rock up to recruiting with an engineering degree and a pulse, you will have zero problem getting in. Zero. Getting the exact job you want might be more difficult, but simply getting in the door will be a cakewalk.

 

[Volkodav]

Mate, I can guarantee that if you rock up to recruiting with an engineering degree and a pulse, you will have zero problem getting in. Zero. Getting the exact job you want might be more difficult, but simply getting in the door will be a cakewalk.

What age do they start turning qualified engineers away? I know the recruiting site says maximum age is 50, I just find this a bit hard to see happening very often. (besides the fact that most qualified engineers in their 40's and 50's probably earn more than the CDF)

 

[Raven22]

What age do they start turning qualified engineers away? I know the recruiting site says maximum age is 50, I just find this a bit hard to see happening very often. (besides the fact that most qualified engineers in their 40's and 50's probably earn more than the CDF)

As long as the Initial Minimum Period of Service (IMPS) can be completed before mandatory retirement age (60 for regs), the age of enlistment/appointment is technically irrelevant. As long as any budding engineers aren't older than 60 minus whatever the IMPS for SSOs is, age won't be a barrier.

I put a 60 year old through Kapooka a couple of years ago (he was a choc), so old dudes do join up.

 

[13Beast]

So the technical skills that an engineer can bring to the table, definitely makes DFR keen to bring them on board and will focus more on that, rather than age, prior experience as an engineer in the civilian sector, etc?

Given that SSO's go through a much shorter and abridged military training as opposed to those going through RMC/ADFA, what are the career options like for an SSO Engineer who decided they really enjoyed the military and wanted to stay?

Given their limited military training apart from that specifically related to their military engineering role, is there a 'ceiling' as to what rank they could be promoted to, and what responsibilities/roles they may be able to take on as their career progressed?

Would the talented ones need to be selected to attend RMC or some kind of staff college further down the track if they wanted to stay on? Or would the job more or less stay the same, and they would be utilised in that primary engineering role (no staff or admin or other Engineering command roles) more or less forever?