Pakistan needs to advance in making fighters

kilo_4que

New Member
Although we are put in this dilema of purchasing high tech fighters. We need to also take into consideration that manufacturing our own fighters is the key to success. Although the JF-17 was made in a joint venture between china and pakistan, we should now press ahead and do things slightly more independantly with of course SOME help from china and our other humble allies.

We tend to think negative and think as though it is impossible, but there are no restrictions stopping us from doing so. We are allowed at will to make our own fighters.

Your thoughts
 

ullu

New Member
If we are going to advance in making fighters and we really should We would need this:

- Better economy

- University based Research < more young minds working = much faster inventions and fixes to potential problems!)

- Make ALL parts at home(if not all maybe most? some?)

- Contacts and diplomacy so we can sell the planes to improve the first two I mentioned.
 

ovais

New Member
:cop I do believe that the expenses that PAF has on the side, are just too great. The overheads that the PAF is maintaining are a serious drain on its resources. However, the JF-17 venture IS commendable, because, if all the reports by national and international media is true, then this just might be PAF's edge over all the rest.

But, if more investment is to be made into the fighter aircraft industry, the overheads of PAF will have to be cut down considerably.
 

Mehfooz

New Member
Hi n salam ..I think there's a good chance for Pakistan to advance in fighter production.Because China is producing WS10A jet engines and there's a very good chance that Pakistan would get its techs and licence for production from China.And I think its a good prospect and this engine would be used in later J10's.After getting licence and techs of production there's a chance of indegenious fighter aircraft ..as Pakistan has also setup an Intitute of avionic and aerospace in ISLAMABAD..and Aeronatical research centre at kamra along with the expansion of aircraft manufacturing fatory for jf 17 and would have some manufaturing experience from jf17 production and also tec experience from same.Pakistan just need to work out good avionics and radars in which pakistan lacs and is far more behind .So lets hope for the best..
 

morko44

New Member
Hi there, i am glad a muslim country such pakistan & iran at the end pursue the capability to fully manufactured advanced weaponry & munitions. :D: Just look at the pathetic Indonesia. Indonesian AIr Force, TNI-AU, only poses fewer than 4 F-16A in airworthy conditions, and perhaps only 3 of Hawk 100/200 which is airworty :(. TNI-AU now procured 4 Su-27/Su-30MK but what made this procurement only serves as a laughable stuff is, those flankers isn't equipped with any weapons, only their guns :mad. The Indos Gov have going nuts. They not even try to wiring the Sukhois with AIM9 & AIM7 already had in Indos
inventory. :mad How suppose TNI-AU able to defend the Indonesia airspace ?

A quick blow by any aggressor in the region, say sending 40 fighters to enter Indonesian airspace, is enough to knock out TNI-AU & all Indonesian teritorry would be succumbed gradualy ;) Don't worry regarding Indos government, they likely to lick any agressor asses happily.
 

SABRE

Super Moderator
Verified Defense Pro
PPl to make an advanced jet fighter u need to go into a mass R&D process. & the R&D process costs more than the actual thing (in this case a n advanced jet) u r trying to achieve. In short run it is big loss. N long run will come way too long later.
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
morko44 said:
A quick blow by any aggressor in the region, say sending 40 fighters to enter Indonesian airspace, is enough to knock out TNI-AU & all Indonesian teritorry would be succumbed gradualy ;) Don't worry regarding Indos government, they likely to lick any agressor asses happily.
I think you just broke the record for the fastest self contradicting post on this forum.
 

P.A.F

New Member
well the JF-17 is the start. within 15-40 years pakistan should be on the way to making leathal weapons in all areas.
 

SABRE

Super Moderator
Verified Defense Pro
Pakistan must consider a joint venture with France (Dessault)...try n make some thin like or close to or better than Mirage2000.
May be JF-Mirage-2000 mulitrole, one seater,sprint fighter jet with nuke carrying capabilities. Also bring in China to this venture.
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
SABRE said:
Also bring in China to this venture.
Having dealt with the French on a number of recent projects, I can tell you that this will not happen.
 

muslim282

New Member
One thing for sure l think we can all agree on is that pakistan has to go down the indiginous route if we are meant to keep up with other nations.
We can,t let numerous embargoes affect us each time.
lnitially this may be expensive but in years to come it will be economically beneficial.
l definatley agree with research projects being passed to universities and academic institutions. This will allow for a whole new generation of skills, inteligence and innovators.
New purchases of weapons should be tied down to licence production and technology transfer contracts "where possible".
COPYING wether licensed on unlicensed should be actively pursued.

The JF17 is only a stepping stone to many great things. Inshallah.+
 

umair

Peace Enforcer
gf0012-aust said:
SABRE said:
Also bring in China to this venture.
Having dealt with the French on a number of recent projects, I can tell you that this will not happen.
Well I think I've mentioned it here somewhere before, that there was a proposal floated for a joint Pak French(china excluded) development of a Mirage2K variant called the Delta Falcon.It was supposed to be better than the original 2K but inferior to the 2K5 models.But it did not go through.
 

Londo Molari

New Member
From what some knowledgeable technical people in the PAF have told me, its not easy to make an aircraft. Pakistan could make the airframe, no problem. The problem is DESIGNING an airframe which will be aerodynamically useful requires experience/expertise which we don't have (I guess we COULD simply copy existing designs :p) and the avionics side of things also involve technologies which we simply do not have experience in. What we CAN do right now is integrate existing advanced technologies... and slowly we are building our own expertise... but definitely we don't have the same type of resources to put into military R&D that say, US, China or Europe might have, which means they are proceeding at a faster rate than us... so even catching up is not easy. You'd need $$ for that...
 

VICTORA1

New Member
Gentlemen,
Dollars is not the only thing needed for high tech research. Pakistanis are way behind in quality designers, engineers, manufacturers----they basically have no fundamentals of starting something very high tech and an expensive item such as a world class fighter jet, to compete and dominate the indian SU30, from the scratch. Also for a country like pakistan, small in size, poor in economy, step child of the world, it is not feasible to do something like that.

They have an oppurtunity of joint ventures with china and purchase options from france for almost any item on their production sheet---so investing on such a large scale would be of no use.

Now if iran, saudi arabia and pakistan may start up a joint venture----that would be a tremendous oppurtunity but then still----you would look into buying an existing design and modifying it to your needs.
 

Pathfinder-X

Tribal Warlord
Verified Defense Pro
Building a basis for defence R & D takes years of hardwork and constant pump of cash. If you do not have the neccessary infastructure in place, such as wind tunnels, chances are you're probably going to end up with something unsuccessful. Improvement in R&D cannot be made overnight and Pakistan is probably not going to make very much advance in aviation in the next decade.

Of course there is always the approach China is taking right now, buy and copy then onto domestic production. This method does have its downside though, you'll always be one step behind and nations will be less enthusiastic about selling you any systems. But it is by far the cheapest and fastest method.
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Pathfinder-X said:
Of course there is always the approach China is taking right now, buy and copy then onto domestic production. This method does have its downside though, you'll always be one step behind and nations will be less enthusiastic about selling you any systems. But it is by far the cheapest and fastest method.
Case in point being that the German govt has elected to maintain the arms embargo on China - and they voted against Schroeders wishes. More to the point, if Germany says no, then the EU will follow and that also means that France will not move against Germany - as she needs Germany more than any other EU member.
 

SABRE

Super Moderator
Verified Defense Pro
VICTORA1 said:
Now if iran, saudi arabia and pakistan may start up a joint venture----that would be a tremendous oppurtunity but then still----you would look into buying an existing design and modifying it to your needs.
Iran, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan & CHINA. U cant take out China, with out it non of the 3 r capable of makin a good fighter. Saudis can only take care of the finance nothing else. It would be China, Pakistan & Iran non technincal side. But inclusion of Iran may close doors to possible US components. But tht wnt matter would it.
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
P.A.F said:
i think pakistan China and Turkey should do a joint venture.
I doubt that Turkey would be interested, they are far more committed to getting advanced weapons tech from the US, UK and Germany.
 
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