Possible export market for used A-10 Warthogs

Mr.V

New Member
I found this interesting - I'm one of many who has dreamed of seeing an A-10 in their national colours (in my case that'll be the RAF or RCAF - almost guaranteed not to happen though).

Boeing has floated the idea of selling off some modified A-10's to interested export customers, of which I'm sure there are at least a handful.

The articles suggest this is an extremely nascent concept, and one that sounds totally reliant on the word of the USAF, where the A-10 story has not quite concluded just yet, as much as some of their ranks wish it would.

I cannot post the link yet, story can be found with the term:

"Boeing A-10 international market" and can be found in the Ottawa citizen paper of Canada, and a Flight Global article.

We can perhaps dream for a second, who do you think the potentially interested nations would be?
 
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ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
I found this interesting - I'm one of many who has dreamed of seeing an A-10 in their national colours (in my case that'll be the RAF or RCAF - almost guaranteed not to happen though).

Boeing has floated the idea of selling off some modified A-10's to interested export customers, of which I'm sure there are at least a handful.

The articles suggest this is an extremely nascent concept, and one that sounds totally reliant on the word of the USAF, where the A-10 story has not quite concluded just yet, as much as some of their ranks wish it would.

I cannot post the link yet, story can be found with the term:

"Boeing A-10 international market" and can be found in the Ottawa citizen paper of Canada, and a Flight Global article.

We can perhaps dream for a second, who do you think the potentially interested nations would be?
Yes at the moment it is just a suggestion from Boeing if the USAF is able to divest itself of the Warthog which it's leadership want to do with great gusto. However their are those in the US Congress who do not want the Warthog retired from the USAF and are equally fervent about it. This is a Foxtrot Alpha article discussing the Boeing proposition. The proposition does have some merit and what Rogoway suggests in his article also has merit. The Warthog has shown that it's more than just a tank buster. It's equally good at busting insurgents as well, plus apparently it has a maritime component.

If it was utilised alongside something like the Textron Scorpion then a small nation such as NZ may have a relatively cheap but potent combination for CAS if we wished to re-enter that capability set again. The Warthog wouldn't have met all the NZG Air Combat Force capability requirements pre 2000, but since that no longer exists, new requirements would have to be raised and in politics anything can be possible. :D
 
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t68

Well-Known Member
If it was utilised alongside something like the Textron Scorpion then a small nation such as NZ may have a relatively cheap but potent combination for CAS if we wished to re-enter that capability set again. The Warthog wouldn't have met all the NZG Air Combat Force capability requirements pre 2000, but since that no longer exists, new requirements would have to be raised and in politics anything can be possible. :D
When you combine both the cost to upgrade A10 and buy the scorpion and if the USAF was to give you the airframes for free as suggested I'd be more inclined to get the F15 if you can, you going to spend the $ dollars with boeing and have the expense of an ageing second hand aircraft that quite possibly will not have any support from the USAF you might as well get an aircraft that covers all aspects *OCA/DCA*
 

Cadredave

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Yes at the moment it is just a suggestion from Boeing if the USAF is able to divest itself of the Warthog which it's leadership want to do with great gusto. However their are those in the US Congress who do not want the Warthog retired from the USAF and are equally fervent about it. This is a Foxtrot Alpha article discussing the Boeing proposition. The proposition does have some merit and what Rogoway suggests in his article also has merit. The Warthog has shown that it's more than just a tank buster. It's equally good at busting insurgents as well, plus apparently it has a maritime component.

If it was utilised alongside something like the Textron Scorpion then a small nation such as NZ may have a relatively cheap but potent combination for CAS if we wished to re-enter that capability set again. The Warthog wouldn't have met all the NZG Air Combat Force capability requirements pre 2000, but since that no longer exists, new requirements would have to be raised and in politics anything can be possible. :D
CAS is not platform specific from wiki I know but it explains it in plain english:

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Close_air_support"]Close air support - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

In Bamyan province all our CAS was conducted by fast movers why because they had the speed to reach us in time. A-10 is a single mission aircraft that is fine in Iraq and Afghan dealing to ISIS and the Talibs, how it fits into the JTAF concept will be the real kicker and personally I prefer multi role aircraft and or Rotary to the A-10.
 

t68

Well-Known Member
It is a shame to see how past governments have cut the RNZAF off at the knees, as I was looking at your history of aircraft post WWII and in what number, Vampires- Strikemasters- Canberra's as well as the Skyhawks and majority of them you had them in decent numbers for the size of the AirForce, I know the Likely hood of getting fixed wing fast jets back as me winning lotto, but it sure would be nice to see the Kiwi back where it belongs *

It will be interesting to see what you do for a Canterbury replacement and the air element for JATF, I would imagine a 2x Galicia Class Logistic Support Ships would be the minimum requirments hard to imagine a multiple types utilty/gunship being aboard as you would want as many NH-90 as you can getto cover for the unexpected breakdown
 

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
If the US Army could do fixed wing flying again, would they want them? I wonder how US marines on the ground would feel about their marine aviators covering their sixes with A-10s instead of Hornets or F-35Bs? The only thing the USAF would find worse than having to keep their Warthogs flying is having the Army or USMC flying them.
 

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
When you combine both the cost to upgrade A10 and buy the scorpion and if the USAF was to give you the airframes for free as suggested I'd be more inclined to get the F15 if you can, you going to spend the $ dollars with boeing and have the expense of an ageing second hand aircraft that quite possibly will not have any support from the USAF you might as well get an aircraft that covers all aspects *OCA/DCA*
If NZ were to get back into the fast jet arena I think the F-18 Superhornet makes more sense than a F-15, much less money and decent enough performance and your neighbour uses them as well.
 

Gremlin29

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
If the US Army could do fixed wing flying again, would they want them? I wonder how US marines on the ground would feel about their marine aviators covering their sixes with A-10s instead of Hornets or F-35Bs? The only thing the USAF would find worse than having to keep their Warthogs flying is having the Army or USMC flying them.
The way things are done now, everything is driven by capabilities and doctrinal need. The A-10 doesn't fill a void in either department, for the Army. Besides that Army aviation is in the close combat attack business versus close air support. I realize from the outside both rolls appear to be the same but they are quite different, at least from the US perspective.
 

t68

Well-Known Member
If NZ were to get back into the fast jet arena I think the F-18 Superhornet makes more sense than a F-15, much less money and decent enough performance and your neighbour uses them as well.
If anf it's a big if RNZAF did get back in the game by the time they gear up to a pont where they will be proficient enough RAAF just might be going all F35 or F35/UAV, don't forget depending on what the RSAF they still may have F15SE in its inventory so it may not be an orphan fleet in the Pacfic.
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
If anf it's a big if RNZAF did get back in the game by the time they gear up to a pont where they will be proficient enough RAAF just might be going all F35 or F35/UAV, don't forget depending on what the RSAF they still may have F15SE in its inventory so it may not be an orphan fleet in the Pacfic.
Point is for the RNZAF the F15 is too expensive to procure and operate and it may not be what the NZDF actually requires for its force structure if and like you say a big if we get back into the fast jet game.
 

t68

Well-Known Member
Going back to when we had the ACF, CAS, maritime strike and air to air.
It's going to be interesting to see how the NZDF plan to bring in on call tactical fire support to the JATF once Canterbury is replaced with something more appropriate to the task
 

vonnoobie

Well-Known Member
I dont see NZ getting the F-15.. Too costly, production likely to close soon, etc

Acquiring the Super Hornet good chance, Though I wouldn't rule out the Gripen fron Sweden. The latest variant uses same engines as the Super Hornet, Easy and cheap to operate and quite capable. In fact the Gripen combined with the SH's and Growlers from the RAAF would make for a good all round potent force.
 

CB90

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
I always figured South Korea or Poland would be the most likely to have the combination of need and defense spending to make it happen.

Overall, I like the idea of export A-10's as well. It would keep the logistics support for the platform continuous even after the US puts its birds in the boneyard...this way if we actually DID ever want to pull them back into service (which if we did, you guarantee would be in a hurry), it'd be a much smoother transition than trying to jumpstart a dead for years program.
 

FormerDirtDart

Well-Known Member
I always figured South Korea or Poland would be the most likely to have the combination of need and defense spending to make it happen.

Overall, I like the idea of export A-10's as well. It would keep the logistics support for the platform continuous even after the US puts its birds in the boneyard...this way if we actually DID ever want to pull them back into service (which if we did, you guarantee would be in a hurry), it'd be a much smoother transition than trying to jumpstart a dead for years program.
If there is really a secondary market, wouldn't someone have been asking about the several hundred A-10s already in the boneyards?
My inner cynic thinks this is more an attempt to lobby the US Congress to force the USAF to retain the aircraft in regular service, or risk losing them for good.
 

CB90

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
If there is really a secondary market, wouldn't someone have been asking about the several hundred A-10s already in the boneyards?
My inner cynic thinks this is more an attempt to lobby the US Congress to force the USAF to retain the aircraft in regular service, or risk losing them for good.
No idea what offers have already been made.

A-10's are actually apparently fairly expensive to keep running, all things considered, for such a specialized craft.

It would obviously be an orphaned platform, but that hasnt ever stopped the ROKs. Or Israel. And Poland still operates some old Cold War gear as well.
 

swerve

Super Moderator
There's a difference between keeping an old platform running after it becomes an orphan. & buying something as an orphan.

IIRC there was talk some years ago of ROK buying some A-10s, & nothing came of it. What's changed, apart from the fact that they'll no longer be able to piggyback on US support?

Every effort to sell old S-3s seems to have foundered at the same hurdle.
 

CB90

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
There's a difference between keeping an old platform running after it becomes an orphan. & buying something as an orphan.

IIRC there was talk some years ago of ROK buying some A-10s, & nothing came of it. What's changed, apart from the fact that they'll no longer be able to piggyback on US support?

Every effort to sell old S-3s seems to have foundered at the same hurdle.
Good question.

Hadn't heard of previous interest in buying A-10s.

Only thing I would say really has changed is that when the AF drops the A-10, the A-10 unit tasked to support their theater out of Osan are also going to go away. It really wouldn't be an economical platform for any country to pick up alone...it probably only makes sense if multiple countries agreed to go in on it to split the costs of keeping the platform running.
 

swerve

Super Moderator
The US selling on the old A-10s is one of those ideas I like, such as someone buying up all the boneyard S-3s & spares stocks & running a portion of the fleet lightly modernised, supported from those spares & cannibalising the rest of the fleet, or the RAF buying the Kawasaki P-1, but must regretfully accept is unrealistic.
 
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