Pak in talks with the U.S. Belgium and the UAE to acquire the planes

adsH

New Member
I always new that Pakistan would try and buy those F-16u ordered by UAE, UAE has no practical Need for such weapons they are more used to the Mirage 2009 they have. The main reason why the deal had delays was first the UAE needed uptodate designs then there was the new missile's were not included the third problem was UAE wanted PAF Pilots trained on those F-16u Block 60 Along with UAE pilots. But i seriously doubt PAF could ever come up with the sort of money UAE spent on those Falcons i am not sure what they are goignto do It is confuseing its like paying a 100 mill dollar for one falcon!!



http://www.mtholyoke.edu/org/cwp/projects/us_armscontrol/pak_test_oct.htm


Pakistan seeks new weaponry to 'neutralise' India
Indo-Asian News Service


ISLAMABAD: Pakistan has sought over-the-horizon missiles and combat jets to counter what it terms the threat posed by India's acquisition of new and sophisticated armaments, the air chief has said.


Air Chief Marshal Kaleem Saadat told Jane's Defence Weekly that Pakistan had been forced to upgrade its weaponry due to "the balance of power tilting dangerously in India's favour".


He also indicated that Pakistan would turn to China, which has played a major role in Pakistan's ballistic missile programme, if the U.S. blocked arms sales from the West.


Saadat did not mention any specific arms purchases by India. According to him, the top priority for Pakistan was the acquisition of beyond-visual-range air-to-air missiles (Bvraams).


Pakistan would prefer to buy the missiles from the U.S. or Western Europe, but since "that option is not yet open, I guess ultimately it will have to be the Chinese".


Pakistan and China have been jointly developing the SD-10 Bvraam missile that would be ready for operational use "in less than a year", Saadat said.


The missiles would be mounted on the existing fleet of fighter jets but the Pakistan Air Force was also looking for new aircraft, he added.


The purchase of new fighter jets with "F-16 and above capability" was another primary need, the air chief said.


Pakistan is negotiating with the U.S. Belgium and the United Arab Emirates to acquire the planes.


Pakistan had contracted with the U.N. in the 1980s to buy 32 F-16 fighters but Washington halted their delivery after Islamabad refused to roll back its nuclear programme.


U.S. President George Bush, in announcing a $3 billion economic package for Pakistan during the visit of President Pervez Musharraf, had specifically said the F-16's were not part of the deal.


Pakistan is thus looking at other countries for purchasing used F-16s from other countries but this would have to be first approved by the U.S.


Pakistan was also been interested in buying used Mirage 2000-5s from Qatar, but Saadat said that since India was also keen on the same aircraft, it "is (now) too complex a deal, so perhaps it would not be easy to complete".


Pakistan is seeking less sophisticated aircraft to replace its aging fleet of A-5s, F-7s and Mirages within five to seven years, the air chief said.



 
 

joker

New Member
AdSh the article posted above is highly questionable.

THE UAE never were going TO SELL THEIR F16 BLOCK 60's. Why on earth would the UAE contribute several billions of $ towards the development of the Block 60 and then decide that they dont want them. The Block 60 versions are the most advanced F16s out there!!!

The Block 60s will continue to serve in the UAEAF along with the M2000-9s. They're not going anywhere!

The PAF is/was interested in ex-Belgian F16 Block 15 MLUs. However with the MNNA the PAF may look towards ex US F16s and a MLU.

The PAF is not looking at acquiring any M2000-5/-9s.
 

adsH

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joker said:
AdSh the article posted above is highly questionable.

THE UAE never were going TO SELL THEIR F16 BLOCK 60's. Why on earth would the UAE contribute several billions of $ towards the development of the Block 60 and then decide that they dont want them. The Block 60 versions are the most advanced F16s out there!!!

The Block 60s will continue to serve in the UAEAF along with the M2000-9s. They're not going anywhere!

The PAF is/was interested in ex-Belgian F16 Block 15 MLUs. However with the MNNA the PAF may look towards ex US F16s and a MLU.

The PAF is not looking at acquiring any M2000-5/-9s.
Joker i know what that article said is highly questionable (But afew months back PAF was realy desperate),i just stumbled across it thats all(not to offend any one). I don't think Pakistan is now going to go for those Belgium F-16 they will be able to bid for new ones soon (looks like that!!! people would argue MNNA doesnot imediately qualify nations to buy everything that is absurd when you become MNNA all restrictions on military purchases are sposed to be removed that is the whole point-of such designation) with american ,foreign military funding the last order PAF placed had a considerable number of the(F-16) paid by US government. I am sure PAf still loves F-16 they train there best to fly those and the amount of money they have spent trying to learn on there own how to overhaul them is a considerable investment in time labour and money.
 

mysterious

New Member
The article is quite old I must say. Its almost from late 2003 or something. Things have changed since then and decisions as well. There is still no word on more F-16s for Pakistan but my long-term thinking says the Americans would eventually let Pakistan acquire F-16s as they know Pakistan, this time isn't going to buy their B.S. of lies and fake assurances about benefits until or unless they get actually get them. :smokingc:
 

adsH

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mysterious said:
The article is quite old I must say. Its almost from late 2003 or something. Things have changed since then and decisions as well. There is still no word on more F-16s for Pakistan but my long-term thinking says the Americans would eventually let Pakistan acquire F-16s as they know Pakistan, this time isn't going to buy their B.S. of lies and fake assurances about benefits until or unless they get actually get them. :smokingc:
true mate i think some people on this form have a problem acknowledging that Pakistan has been an outstanding ally in the fight against terrorism that has brought pakistans image up as a frontline Anti terorist state. the recent deaths of the Pak Army soldier here have been also mentioned with extreme sadness so we do appreisicte the effort!!! :)
 

Roger Smith

New Member
mysterious said:
The article is quite old I must say. Its almost from late 2003 or something. Things have changed since then and decisions as well. There is still no word on more F-16s for Pakistan but my long-term thinking says the Americans would eventually let Pakistan acquire F-16s as they know Pakistan, this time isn't going to buy their B.S. of lies and fake assurances about benefits until or unless they get actually get them. :smokingc:

Let us hope so! :smokingc:
 

joker

New Member
ADSh the MNNA status does not qualify Pakistan to receive new build F16 Block 52s at all. To acquire new build equipment it has to be a Foreign Military Sale which requires Congressional approval. Under the MNNA Pakistan qualifies to receive surplus equipment under the Excess Defence Articles.

Furthermore, the MNNA does protect Pakistan from sanctions i.e. the Glenn and Pressler amendments but any sale related to new build equipment still requires congressional approval!!!

Finally, Pakistan has NOT been awarded the MNNA status yet.

Yes the PAF does want an additional 60 odd F16s but these are most likely to be block 15/20s from surplus US stocks. To bring these aircrafts up to date they will require refurbishment and a Mid Life Upgrade.
 

amit21mech

New Member
main point is MNNA status is still to be given. US is playing carrot and stick with both India and Pakistan. After that statement Colin Powel or any other US officer has not done or said any thing which suggest that they are giving MNNA status to Pak. I think they are expecting some thing more from Pak govt in response to that "Carrot".
 

mysterious

New Member
The last thing I read about the MNNA status for Pakistan was that Bush was 'soon' going to make a formal recommendation of that to the Congress and then it will be decided finally!
 

Roger Smith

New Member
adsH said:
Air Chief Marshal Kaleem Saadat told Jane's Defence Weekly that Pakistan had been forced to upgrade its weaponry due to "the balance of power tilting dangerously in India's favour".


He also indicated that Pakistan would turn to China, which has played a major role in Pakistan's ballistic missile programme, if the U.S. blocked arms sales from the West.

Pakistan has no other option for military supply other then China. :)
 

adsH

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seems like the president is has a stiff opposistion on this MNNA staus from teh Democrats apparently the senators that are known to be funded by India and there interest holders there in the US(apperntly it is very normal to fund senators for interests). DOD is trying to speed the process last time i heard!! but your rite Joker we can't know for certain what the outcome would be of such a designation but apparently PAF is setting up a Masive base on the Pak Afghan Border it was on the news today i wonder what that is for!! its all confusing !!
 

joker

New Member
The MNNA status is awarded by an executive order i.e. President Bush. As of now no congressional is required. However the Indian caucus in Washington is currently actively attempting to change this by lobbying for Congress to pass legislation that would require congressional approval for the US to award MNNA status.

The airbase being built in Waziristan is a PA initiative and not a PAF one. It will most probably act as a FOB for PA helicopters.
 

joker

New Member
(Aviation related)

Pak Army eyeing for MMR under MNNA

Special Correspondent

Islamabad—Pakistan Army under the MNNA status given by US is eyeing for a joint venture with the US Army’s Communications and Electronics Command (CECOM) for the construction and subsequent induction of a lightweight multi-mission radar (MMR) capable of integrating many surveillance systems into one unit.

CECOM started work on this lightweight radar system in the year 2001 and currently the project is about to be put on production line. Prototypes have already been tested by US Army under a $15 million science and technology objective programme and this facility can be available to Pakistan Army under MNNA status. Pakistan Army has been looking for a single radar that can perform the tasks currently conducted by individual radar systems. These include air defence surveillance and tracking; airtraffic control; counter-fire target acquisition; and fire control against incoming threats such as rocket, mortars, cruise missiles, unmanned air vehicles and aircraft. The MMR which is intended to support early entry forces, is a lightweight system capable of being carried by a High Mobility Multi-purpose Wheeled Vehicle as well as transportable by C-130 transport aircraft.

The prototype which has already been developed is capable of conducting 360 air defence tracking and surveillance at a range of at least 100 km while also being able to perform counterfire target acquisition with at least 90 per cent coverage at a range of 50 km. It will also be able to provide fire control cueing to weapon systems, conduct air traffic control, incorporate Identification Friend-or-Foe systems and can be inter-operable with Advance Field Artillery Tactical Data System and short range defence system. Pakistan Army in the next fiscal year has sought funds for this programme which will be partially supported by US government. Official sources expect about 10 to 15 billion rupees increase in defence budget in the next national budget.

Sources claim that Pakistan Army may also be looking into US MP-RTIP airborne ground surveillance system. This system has also been recently developed to give air platforms more capability to detect, track and identify stationary and moving ground targets. Pakistan Army has been looking for such radar systems to increase the efficiency of its ground forces which are now undergoing restructuring. This will also meet the concepts of modern army. Pakistan also wants to improve its conventional forces by inducting high tech radar system. Pakistan also wants to induct airborne Early Warning System ( EWS ) into its service to counter balance Indian PHALCON capabilities.


link
 

adsH

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  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #14
joker said:
(Aviation related)

Pak Army eyeing for MMR under MNNA

Special Correspondent

Islamabad—Pakistan Army under the MNNA status given by US is eyeing for a joint venture with the US Army’s Communications and Electronics Command (CECOM) for the construction and subsequent induction of a lightweight multi-mission radar (MMR) capable of integrating many surveillance systems into one unit.

CECOM started work on this lightweight radar system in the year 2001 and currently the project is about to be put on production line. Prototypes have already been tested by US Army under a $15 million science and technology objective programme and this facility can be available to Pakistan Army under MNNA status. Pakistan Army has been looking for a single radar that can perform the tasks currently conducted by individual radar systems. These include air defence surveillance and tracking; airtraffic control; counter-fire target acquisition; and fire control against incoming threats such as rocket, mortars, cruise missiles, unmanned air vehicles and aircraft. The MMR which is intended to support early entry forces, is a lightweight system capable of being carried by a High Mobility Multi-purpose Wheeled Vehicle as well as transportable by C-130 transport aircraft.

The prototype which has already been developed is capable of conducting 360 air defence tracking and surveillance at a range of at least 100 km while also being able to perform counterfire target acquisition with at least 90 per cent coverage at a range of 50 km. It will also be able to provide fire control cueing to weapon systems, conduct air traffic control, incorporate Identification Friend-or-Foe systems and can be inter-operable with Advance Field Artillery Tactical Data System and short range defence system. Pakistan Army in the next fiscal year has sought funds for this programme which will be partially supported by US government. Official sources expect about 10 to 15 billion rupees increase in defence budget in the next national budget.

Sources claim that Pakistan Army may also be looking into US MP-RTIP airborne ground surveillance system. This system has also been recently developed to give air platforms more capability to detect, track and identify stationary and moving ground targets. Pakistan Army has been looking for such radar systems to increase the efficiency of its ground forces which are now undergoing restructuring. This will also meet the concepts of modern army. Pakistan also wants to improve its conventional forces by inducting high tech radar system. Pakistan also wants to induct airborne Early Warning System ( EWS ) into its service to counter balance Indian PHALCON capabilities.


link


yeah yeah yeah !! Pakistan Wants every thing End of Statement(its like reading this article, all i keep reading is pakistan want that pakistan wants that). I bet Pakistan WILL TRY to involove its self in every Major R&d programe US is running so this would mean Pakistan's military will soon be well equipped !! :roll
 

Roger Smith

New Member
adsH said:
joker said:
(Aviation related)

Pak Army eyeing for MMR under MNNA

Special Correspondent

Islamabad—Pakistan Army under the MNNA status given by US is eyeing for a joint venture with the US Army’s Communications and Electronics Command (CECOM) for the construction and subsequent induction of a lightweight multi-mission radar (MMR) capable of integrating many surveillance systems into one unit.

CECOM started work on this lightweight radar system in the year 2001 and currently the project is about to be put on production line. Prototypes have already been tested by US Army under a $15 million science and technology objective programme and this facility can be available to Pakistan Army under MNNA status. Pakistan Army has been looking for a single radar that can perform the tasks currently conducted by individual radar systems. These include air defence surveillance and tracking; airtraffic control; counter-fire target acquisition; and fire control against incoming threats such as rocket, mortars, cruise missiles, unmanned air vehicles and aircraft. The MMR which is intended to support early entry forces, is a lightweight system capable of being carried by a High Mobility Multi-purpose Wheeled Vehicle as well as transportable by C-130 transport aircraft.

The prototype which has already been developed is capable of conducting 360 air defence tracking and surveillance at a range of at least 100 km while also being able to perform counterfire target acquisition with at least 90 per cent coverage at a range of 50 km. It will also be able to provide fire control cueing to weapon systems, conduct air traffic control, incorporate Identification Friend-or-Foe systems and can be inter-operable with Advance Field Artillery Tactical Data System and short range defence system. Pakistan Army in the next fiscal year has sought funds for this programme which will be partially supported by US government. Official sources expect about 10 to 15 billion rupees increase in defence budget in the next national budget.

Sources claim that Pakistan Army may also be looking into US MP-RTIP airborne ground surveillance system. This system has also been recently developed to give air platforms more capability to detect, track and identify stationary and moving ground targets. Pakistan Army has been looking for such radar systems to increase the efficiency of its ground forces which are now undergoing restructuring. This will also meet the concepts of modern army. Pakistan also wants to improve its conventional forces by inducting high tech radar system. Pakistan also wants to induct airborne Early Warning System ( EWS ) into its service to counter balance Indian PHALCON capabilities.


link


yeah yeah yeah !! Pakistan Wants every thing End of Statement(its like reading this article, all i keep reading is pakistan want that pakistan wants that). I bet Pakistan WILL TRY to involove its self in every Major R&d programe US is running so this would mean Pakistan's military will soon be well equipped !! :roll

Why not if Pakistan can obtain advanced military equipment from America under MNNA pretext? :)

It have to be seem, if the American will provide any new technology to Pakistan. ;)
 

adsH

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  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #16
Roger Smith said:
adsH said:
joker said:
(Aviation related)

Pak Army eyeing for MMR under MNNA

Special Correspondent

Islamabad—Pakistan Army under the MNNA status given by US is eyeing for a joint venture with the US Army’s Communications and Electronics Command (CECOM) for the construction and subsequent induction of a lightweight multi-mission radar (MMR) capable of integrating many surveillance systems into one unit.

CECOM started work on this lightweight radar system in the year 2001 and currently the project is about to be put on production line. Prototypes have already been tested by US Army under a $15 million science and technology objective programme and this facility can be available to Pakistan Army under MNNA status. Pakistan Army has been looking for a single radar that can perform the tasks currently conducted by individual radar systems. These include air defence surveillance and tracking; airtraffic control; counter-fire target acquisition; and fire control against incoming threats such as rocket, mortars, cruise missiles, unmanned air vehicles and aircraft. The MMR which is intended to support early entry forces, is a lightweight system capable of being carried by a High Mobility Multi-purpose Wheeled Vehicle as well as transportable by C-130 transport aircraft.

The prototype which has already been developed is capable of conducting 360 air defence tracking and surveillance at a range of at least 100 km while also being able to perform counterfire target acquisition with at least 90 per cent coverage at a range of 50 km. It will also be able to provide fire control cueing to weapon systems, conduct air traffic control, incorporate Identification Friend-or-Foe systems and can be inter-operable with Advance Field Artillery Tactical Data System and short range defence system. Pakistan Army in the next fiscal year has sought funds for this programme which will be partially supported by US government. Official sources expect about 10 to 15 billion rupees increase in defence budget in the next national budget.

Sources claim that Pakistan Army may also be looking into US MP-RTIP airborne ground surveillance system. This system has also been recently developed to give air platforms more capability to detect, track and identify stationary and moving ground targets. Pakistan Army has been looking for such radar systems to increase the efficiency of its ground forces which are now undergoing restructuring. This will also meet the concepts of modern army. Pakistan also wants to improve its conventional forces by inducting high tech radar system. Pakistan also wants to induct airborne Early Warning System ( EWS ) into its service to counter balance Indian PHALCON capabilities.


link


yeah yeah yeah !! Pakistan Wants every thing End of Statement(its like reading this article, all i keep reading is pakistan want that pakistan wants that). I bet Pakistan WILL TRY to involove its self in every Major R&d programe US is running so this would mean Pakistan's military will soon be well equipped !! :roll

Why not if Pakistan can obtain advanced military equipment from America under MNNA pretext? :)

It have to be seem, if the American will provide any new technology to Pakistan. ;)

dude my last message was merely an expression. its good for Pakistan if they can get those !!!
 

worldpower

New Member
Has anyone considered the fact that since Pakistan could not buy the Qatari Mirages that they would instead opt for the Mirages owned by the UAE. I mean didn't the UAE want to replace its Mirage fleet with the F-16s. Plus Im sure that the Pakistani pilots in the UAE are allowed to work on the Mirages.
 

LCA_Tejas

New Member
I say Let 'em buy chinese stuff .... :D2

Honsestly I don't see which country is willing to let Pak having a "good" and I mean good .....aircraft ...look for sure u guys can say what u want about ur JF 17 and other chinese things u have ....but frankly apart from a few of the falcons (ancient ones they are ) you have nothing that would be considered as a threat to any of the regional air forces in S Asia..... :roll

Unless you consider the China-sabotaged-decades-old-Russian-jets and something called a "Mushak" ....as a threat ! :p

But why would UAE want to sell you those planes ? besides I don't see the Pak government coughing up the money to pay for them.....

I say Pak may be better off trying to pursuade China to supply them with the J-10 and its developments ........ :roll
 

joker

New Member
World Power UAE is NOT and I repeat NOT going to sell their Mirage 2000-9 to Pakistan. The Mirage 2000-9 are one of their most potent strike platforms and I can hardly see the UAEAF just selling them off to a thrid party esp. after spending a considerable amount of money in R&D for the Balck Shaheen. The F16 purchase was never meant to replace the Mirage 2000s in UAEAF service.

but frankly apart from a few of the falcons (ancient ones they are ) you have nothing that would be considered as a threat to any of the regional air forces in S Asia.....
The PAF does not need anything considered as a threat to the IAF cuz the flying coffins are getting the job done nicely. [Admin: Lets avoid personal remarks about what type of brain other people have. Lets concentrate on using our own and putting it to better use, thanks! ]
 

adsH

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joker said:
World Power UAE is NOT and I repeat NOT going to sell their Mirage 2000-9 to Pakistan. The Mirage 2000-9 are one of their most potent strike platforms and I can hardly see the UAEAF just selling them off to a thrid party esp. after spending a considerable amount of money in R&D for the Balck Shaheen. The F16 purchase was never meant to replace the Mirage 2000s in UAEAF service.

but frankly apart from a few of the falcons (ancient ones they are ) you have nothing that would be considered as a threat to any of the regional air forces in S Asia.....
The PAF does not need anything considered as a threat to the IAF cuz the flying coffins are getting the job done nicely. Here's a suggestion you know that thing that sits in your cranium... its called a brain... use it once in a while! Or if your current one isnt working properly you could always get a transplant what with India being the human organ trafficking centre of the world.
joker you have never seemed to amaze me but(and) your thoughts are admirable. PAF does not need European jets !! it has to defend its self now, not attack the old day s are gone for them when they thought they(Pakistan) was superior. you have to consider this JF-17 is a considerable or a credible threat at the least, atleast on the defensive side with all the advantages of datalinks, ground radar and the AWACS if they come.

Well on the other side when indian's always perceive there enemy week. well there is only one thing that can or could of been said never underestimate your enemy and certainly not one that your about to attack in his own home. MEDIA will always dilute the fact with bias rhetoric (being patriotic) and i believe the clever person is he who sees through the ocean of lies

LCA MAN!

those "Ancient" Flacons you refer to are still a credible threat to the IAF not becasue it has a desktop computer that u can play a flight sim onn but because it was made for war and something not many AC fighters would ever be able to replicate. those F-16 are the tip of a sharp dagger that has been sharpened to the point that it can't be sharpened any more. PAF lets only the BEST fly those F-16

if pakistan does not pose a threat and since you hate it so much why don't you attack and find out the truth, the truth will be revealed!!! pointless rhetoric and self denial to ellude one another is a mere fantasy of the delusional. to elude is to illude!!!.
 
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