Pak may get SU-30

[tahir_kheshgi]

hey salaam all,
i know i am new here so dont think i am talking crap here. i am from london. but lived a lot of my life in Pak, Karachi. i know a lot about pak military, specially the PAF.
i went to khi in Aug. i have a cousin who is a test pilot for PAF based in Masroor base karachi. i asked him back in Aug to clear up all the confusion of which fighter PAF is buying. he said back then that his name is included in the list of pilots and the staff going to france for training on Mirage 2000-5. basically he said pak is likely to get mirage 2000-5.
well that obviously didnt happen.
now i went to khi last month. asked him the same question. this time he says that pak is most likely to get SU-30, same as the ones that india has. meaning they have to be SU-30MKIs. he goes that pak has a good deal on su30s and will go for it.
i remember AVM shahid lateef last year in oct/nov time saying that PAF will surprise everyone around the mid 2003 period. Do you think this SU30 deal is a surprise package? hmmm

i have been trying to find out some info regarding this deal on the internet for quiet a time. Have you lot heard about this recently?

Su-30MKIs will be a huge boost for PAF

(p.s. dont think i am making this up. take this seriously. i am not lieing about this!!)

 

[Roger Smith]

hey salaam all,
i know i am new here so dont think i am talking crap here. i am from london. but lived a lot of my life in Pak, Karachi. i know a lot about pak military, specially the PAF.
i went to khi in Aug. i have a cousin who is a test pilot for PAF based in Masroor base karachi. i asked him back in Aug to clear up all the confusion of which fighter PAF is buying. he said back then that his name is included in the list of pilots and the staff going to france for training on Mirage 2000-5. basically he said pak is likely to get mirage 2000-5.
well that obviously didnt happen.
now i went to khi last month. asked him the same question. this time he says that pak is most likely to get SU-30, same as the ones that india has. meaning they have to be SU-30MKIs. he goes that pak has a good deal on su30s and will go for it.
i remember AVM shahid lateef last year in oct/nov time saying that PAF will surprise everyone around the mid 2003 period. Do you think this SU30 deal is a surprise package? hmmm

i have been trying to find out some info regarding this deal on the internet for quiet a time. Have you lot heard about this recently?

Su-30MKIs will be a huge boost for PAF

(p.s. dont think i am making this up. take this seriously. i am not lieing about this!!)

Tahir

You may be right, it is a top secret deal that Pakistan is negotiating on Su-30MKI with some country other than Russia and India., therefore it will not be on internet or any other place and could only be in some one mind only (wishful thinking only).

Take care! :smokingc:

 

[Aussie Digger]

I don't think you're lying, but I doubt Pakistan will purchase SU-30 aircraft. Countries rarely ever acquire the same military equipment as their opponent. It provides your opponent (and yourselves) with an intelligence advantage... If anything they will pursue Chinese aircraft and perhaps smaller numbers of high quality "Western" fighters. It's also a bit early for PAF pilots to be training on types of aircraft that may enter PAF service. Even if the contract for new aircraft were signed tomorrow, it would still take years for new aircraft to enter PAF service. If they were new build aircraft PAF would be unlikely to achieve an initial operating capability for these aircraft (ie: aircraft actually flying in PAF colours) at any time before 2008. It's an unfortunate thing. The benefits of new technology have the drawback of being far more complex and time consuming to manufacture and test. Second hand aircraft (such as early model F-16's) could be introduced much quicker, (possibly as early as late 2005, early 2006) but it is normal for second-hand aircraft to be refurbished and upgraded prior to introducing them into service with another Country. I cannot see PAF gaining a "new" fighter aircraft before 2006 at the earliest, even if second-hand aircraft were obtained. Without upgrade or modification they simply wouldn't be inter-operable with existing PAF aircraft. Cheers.

 

[tahir_kheshgi]

yea but who knows... pak may have been trying to get hold of these planes for quiet a long time.
i agree with u Aussie that a country would not get the same weapon as its enemy. To b honest, thats what i thought initially, but then i thought, there has to be a catch of some sort. may be Su30 that pak wants to get are a bit different from the indians ones.. etc.

i donnot think it will be a major problem for Pak to get these planes quickly. and training the pilots on these aircrafts wouldnt be as hard as you make it sound! i mean, back in 1980s, F-16s were completely different aircraft for PAF, and look within a few years, PAF F-16s pilots were renowned as the best F-16 pilots in the world. same can go for the SU30s.
i think right now if pak gets the SU30s, it will definately put PAF an edge over the IAF as PAF pilots push each aircraft to its limit and have a lot more quality!! right now, SU30 is probably one of the best combat aircrafts in the world, until the F-22 comes atleast!!

so if paf gets these aircrafts knowing their enemy has them as well, whats the harm in that?

 

[umair]

I agree with AD.Tahir I'm having doubts towards the Su-30.We already rejected the Flankers in the early 90s.
According to my info we're trying now to get our 32 Falcons a comprehensive MLU(MLU=Block50/52),and get 16 secondhand Falcons with MLU.Complement them with a similar no of J-10s.And for the silver bullet force 48-64 Typhoons.

 

[tahir_kheshgi]

ok i am confused
so when u say MLUs do u mean they are block 50?... i always thought they were block 15s.
i thought Block 50s were the F-16/C/ds!!

and what do u mean by silver bullet foce typhoons... is this eurofighter?

 

[Aussie Digger]

Yep I'm betting on additional second hand F-16's, with the entire fleet put through an MLU. This would be the quickest in-service enhancement to PAF's capabilities and provide the greatest level of combat capability quickly. Tk (as I'm too lazy to type your whole name) it takes a long time to build a single jet fighter these days. It will take the US until 2006 to build 20 recently approved F/A-22 low rate initial production aircraft, on a production line that's already in operation!!! At the F-22's peak planned production they will only be delivering 26 or so actual jets every year. Unless the SU-30's are already completed or nearly so (which I would highly doubt) it would take 12-18 months simply to obtain the long lead time items necessary to begin building the jets, these items include engines, radars avionics etc. Also I didn't say training the pilots to fly these jets would be hard. I said they wouldn't haven't started to train for jets they wouldn't be able to get for years yet anyway. They would be a waste of perfectly good (and always scarce) pilots. The pilots might be chosen to fly whichever jet in the future, but would be maintaining his skills on an in-service type. Pilots might be going overseas to test various types of aircraft to report back to their superiors on the aircrafts suitability, performance etc, but that is quite a different thing, to pilots training to operate these new jets in PAF service. For instance a pilot would never be allowed to fly a foreign fighter on his own in a mere test...

 

[P.A.F]

hold on. tahir said that there is gonna be a suprise deal mid 2003. It's bloody 2004 now.

 

[Aussie Digger]

I think he (she?) Probably made a typo there... :help

 

[umair]

Tahir is a male name mate

 

[adsH]

Hey Don't you guys think a EF2000 typhonn could "comprehensively" beat a SU30 I think so . and i don't think the SUXX would come from Either china or Russia it would come form a rebel!!!! Ukraine!!! Ukraine would porbbaly be looking for INvestment and R&D help, just like the AK MBT!!

 

[P.A.F]

Listen!!! pakistan ain't gettin no Su-30's. IT ALL A LOAD OF CRAP. where more likly to get belgium F-16, French or UAE mirages.

 

[adsH]

Listen!!! pakistan ain't gettin no Su-30's. IT ALL A LOAD OF CRAP. where more likly to get belgium F-16, French or UAE mirages.

Wait!!! pakistan Is still not sure what it wan'ts, why don't we all (lesser minds) wait and see what the PAF decides!!! idon't think UAE is going to sell those mirages they are used by the emirates AF.

 

[Indianguy]

Listen!!! pakistan ain't gettin no Su-30's. IT ALL A LOAD OF CRAP. where more likly to get belgium F-16, French or UAE mirages.

Wait!!! pakistan Is still not sure what it wan'ts, why don't we all (lesser minds) wait and see what the PAF decides!!! idon't think UAE is going to sell those mirages they are used by the emirates AF.

Well Pak is not going to get SU 30 from Russia, Nor Mirages 2000, It ihas only option left either go for F16 or European planes which are costly. I think they will settle for Second HAnd F16

 

[tatra]

Listen!!! pakistan ain't gettin no Su-30's. IT ALL A LOAD OF CRAP. where more likly to get belgium F-16, French or UAE mirages.

Wait!!! pakistan Is still not sure what it wan'ts, why don't we all (lesser minds) wait and see what the PAF decides!!! idon't think UAE is going to sell those mirages they are used by the emirates AF.

Well Pak is not going to get SU 30 from Russia, Nor Mirages 2000, It ihas only option left either go for F16 or European planes which are costly. I think they will settle for Second HAnd F16

Not likely to get Eurofighter Typhoon either...

 

[tahir_kheshgi]

Hey i am just telling you the words of a test-pilot of PAF. he said SU30 are looking very likely.
i mean we can all make assumptions here about what paf will get, and to be quiet frank, only time will tell.
right now PAF has a lot of money to spend! $2.5b are already been given to the PAF for expenditure, "more will be given, if required" said Musharaf!! so PAF is just taking its time to get the best thing possible for $2.5b.
we are here chatting away on an internet forum basing our statements over some internet site. There is nothing wrong in that. But the fact remains that we would never figure out the inside story. i heard this SU30 thing from a PAF test pilot! i am sure there has to be some credibility in this news.

 

[Roger Smith]

Hey i am just telling you the words of a test-pilot of PAF. he said SU30 are looking very likely.
i mean we can all make assumptions here about what paf will get, and to be quiet frank, only time will tell.
right now PAF has a lot of money to spend! $2.5b are already been given to the PAF for expenditure, "more will be given, if required" said Musharaf!! so PAF is just taking its time to get the best thing possible for $2.5b.
we are here chatting away on an internet forum basing our statements over some internet site. There is nothing wrong in that. But the fact remains that we would never figure out the inside story. i heard this SU30 thing from a PAF test pilot! i am sure there has to be some credibility in this news.

Tahir

Russia will not supply any Su-30 to Pakistan and upset its long standing defence cooperation with India.

May be, I say may be Ukraine might supply some second hand Su-27 aircrafts to Pakistan, but at a later date Pakistan may find difficulty in obtaining spare parts from Russia. So the Su-27 may be a white elephant for PAF.

On the other hand, PAF may find some cooperation from the Chinese for spare parts, as the Chinese have Su-27 in their inventory. :? :help

 

[adsH]

Hey i am just telling you the words of a test-pilot of PAF. he said SU30 are looking very likely.
i mean we can all make assumptions here about what paf will get, and to be quiet frank, only time will tell.
right now PAF has a lot of money to spend! $2.5b are already been given to the PAF for expenditure, "more will be given, if required" said Musharaf!! so PAF is just taking its time to get the best thing possible for $2.5b.
we are here chatting away on an internet forum basing our statements over some internet site. There is nothing wrong in that. But the fact remains that we would never figure out the inside story. i heard this SU30 thing from a PAF test pilot! i am sure there has to be some credibility in this news.

Tahir

Russia will not supply any Su-30 to Pakistan and upset its long standing defence cooperation with India.

May be, I say may be Ukraine might supply some second hand Su-27 aircrafts to Pakistan, but at a later date Pakistan may find difficulty in obtaining spare parts from Russia. So the Su-27 may be a white elephant for PAF.

On the other hand, PAF may find some cooperation from the Chinese for spare parts, as the Chinese have Su-27 in their inventory. :? :help

Rogger,,,,,,,, doesn't ukraine make Su 30?

 

[Aussie Digger]

Tk, when I was in the military (Australian Army for about 5 years) we used to hear all sorts of rumours about getting this bit of equipment or that bit of equipment. The only time you "know" you're actually getting something is when it is issued to you by your quartermaster. This is the same for a rifle, a pair of night vision goggles, an armoured vehicle or an aircraft. Even a President announcing a certain military capability will be acquired doesn't mean that it will. Look at the US's Commanche program or the Crusader program... A test pilot may very well be travelling to another Country to test a particular type of aircraft. This sort of thing happens all the time. It doesn't mean you will necessarily acquire that aircraft. What normally happens is the pilot will report back to his parent air force on the aircraft's capabilities (that he is allowed to test...) I wouldn't put too many "eggs into one basket" on the basis of what one pilot might say, no matter how well you know him.

 

[gf0012-aust]

My take on this:

Irkut (Sukhoi) will not want to jeopardise future sales with India - as India is the far biggest customer - and is historically a long term customer, the Russians will not jeopardise it. Russia still sees India as a reliable ally

If China sells SU-30's or brass plates existing units to Pakistan - then they will jeopardise future purchase opportunities - and China still needs more Su-30's to take over the old Beagle and Bear squadrons.