MiG-29K vs Su-33

[Feanor]

VS threads are against forum rules, but in this case I felt compelled to make it because hopefully the nature of the comparison will help avoid the typical pitfalls.

The scenario is as follows: within the next 5 years the Russian AVMF is set to receive a number of MiG-29K newly built. Their delivery completion is rumored to coincide with the end of the Kuznetsov refit planned for 2017. The idea seems to be that they will be the new airwing for the Kuznetsov. However at the same time the surviving 19 Su-33 are undergoing refit and modernization right now, with the first ones completed only a few days ago at KnAAPO.

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Presumably the upgrade package is similar to the SM upgrade for the Su-27S.

This indicates a desire to leave the type in service for a considerable period of time.

So: opinions. Barring a 5th gen. carrier based fighter, what should the AVMF do about it's procurement of carrier-borne fighters? Retain both types? Or exclude one for the other?

Keep in mind: The Su-33 is out of production, but it's not beyond reason to resume production, should the order be for 24 fighters or more. The MiG-29K is in production already, but MiG has a history of delivery and spare parts issues. On the other hand they need the contract, and it would help boost export sales considerably, while the Su-33 has very little export potential, and regular Flankers already enjoyed unrivaled (in Russian aerospace) export success.

Finally, the refitted Kuznetsov may only be the first step of a larger carrier program, which means the type(s) selected may see extended production runs for additional ships. A lot of money is at stake, both in the immediate, and in the long run.

 

[Todjaeger]

I will need to do some research to double check some of my facts and figures. Having said that though, my impression was that the Su-33 was a larger aircraft than the MiG-29K. With that sort of difference, and depending on aircraft modernization/fitout and of course conops, I could foresee Russian Naval Aviation keeping both types in service, with the MiG-29K fufilling a multi-role fighter/interceptor requirement, and the Su-33 acting more as a strike/fighter aircraft.

Granted a good deal depending on planned and expected Russian carrier developments and of course budget.

Relating to that, what sort of weaponry could/would the carrier aircraft operation? From memory, most Russian AShM are quite large, being designed for deployment from Tu-95, Tu-22 and Tu-160 strike/bomber aircraft. Or is the expectation that the Russian carriers would operate in a completely different fashion from how the USN operates its carriers?

-Cheers

 

[Feanor]

Well the Brahmos could operate from the Su-33 after appropriate modifications, but that's speculation at this time. A modernized Su-33 would probably have the same weapon optinos an Su-27SM, so here's the actual weapon loadout options from KnAAPO. It can carry a variety of smaller munitions, but large carrier-killer AShMs would indeed be too large.

The main missiles would be the Kh-31A and Kh-29T, with ranges of 110 and 10 km each.

Traditionally Soviet carrier aircraft were organic fleet air defense, with the offensive power of the fleet being AShMs from AVMF, as well as ship launched, and submarines. Whether this conception is changing remains to be seen. The MiG-29K is however a multi-role, and quite capable of carrying out strike missions using both the Kh-29, Kh-31, as well as the Kh-25 and Kh-35U. The Su-33 is rumoerd to have the ability to carry Kh-41 (SS-N-22 Sunburn). Both have mid-air refueling capability.

The MiG-29K would presumably also be a more modern fighter. It features the Zhuk-M(E) radar and is optimized to receive the Zhuk-AE as soon as it's ready. In fact the MiG-29K production variant for the AVMF may carry the Zhuk-AE, as production is not set to start for a little longer.

On the other hand the long term upgrade potential for the Su-33 may include the M2 package for the Flankers.

 

[Corsair96]

This is just an idea, but wouldnt the Mig-29k take the form of the f-14 in the late 80's and the Su-33 as an F/A-18?

 

[SkolZkiy]

This is just an idea, but wouldn't the Mig-29k take the form of the f-14 in the late 80's and the Su-33 as an F/A-18?

?? May be you want to say Su-33 as F-14 and MiG-29K as F-18?
To begin production of the Su-33 - it is needed not only order for 24 AC - remember that it is quite old AC and of course it needs some changes. So these changes requires resources - additional money. I think those 19 Su-33 would be modernized and repaired while may be additional order for MiG-29K.

 

[Corsair96]

"At present, Russia has only one operational aircraft carrier, the Nikolai Kuznetsov, which was commissioned in the early 1990s and has recently re-entered service after a prolonged overhaul. On 14 October 2008 President Dmitry Medvedev said that Russia would launch large-scale construction of aircraft carriers within the next two years. “We need new aircraft carrying warships, this is a very important direction for the development of the Navy,” he said on board Russia’s only aircraft carrier, Admiral Kuznetsov. He added that the first aircraft carrier should be built by 2013-2015"

Doesnt say how many they are planning to build but that still is a heck of a lot of new fighters. 2013-2015 that would give them some time for a new fighter orders of SU-33. I think that a new order would deffinetley be an option, but to what degree I do not know. Im all for standardizing them for specific roles, the all around F/A 18 all around just doesnt do it for me, but thats just what i think

 

[Feanor]

I doubt a new carrier will be built by 2015. As a project has yet to be selected. It's possible that construction will begin in 2013-2015 but even that I don't see as very likely. Then there's also the question of a new trainer. If the su-33 remains in service the su-25utg will also need overhaul.

 

[tphuang]

I would go with su-33 if we consider only military aspect of it. But I know that if we were to factor in the logistics, then having mig-29k might make more sense given that the production line is already established through the IN contract.

 

[Feanor]

Even granted that the modernized Su-33 will be at the level of the SM upgrade while the MiG-29K carries significantly newer avionics, radar, and OLS?