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This is a discussion on Indonesian Aero News within the Air Force & Aviation forum, part of the Global Defense & Military category; The Indonesian SU-35 procurement saga seems still continue: November, Indonesia dan Rusia Tanda Tangani Kontrak Pembelian 11 Sukhoi - Kompas.com ...


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Old September 22nd, 2017   #856
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SU-35 saga continue..

The Indonesian SU-35 procurement saga seems still continue:

November, Indonesia dan Rusia Tanda Tangani Kontrak Pembelian 11 Sukhoi - Kompas.com

20th November, an Article in Kompas online stated Minister of Defence statement that contract for procurement 11 SU-35 will be signed in November.

Kemahalan, Pemerintah Nego Ulang Harga Barter 11 Sukhoi - Kompas.com

Two days latter, another article in same Kompas online stated Deputy Minister of Trade statement that the Government want to 'renegotiate' SU-35 deal on the ground that the individual price of SU-35 is still to high..

Geezzss...I hate going politics in this thread..but really this shown after close to 4 years in power, this administrations still shown lack of coordination between ministry. Same thing that they shown since this administration come to power.

It had been indicated the price of one SU-35 is the range of USD 90 mio+, but somehow someone or some party whispering to this administration that the price is actually USD 45mio-USD 65mio..(which coincidently is the range that similar to price range of SU-30MK2 that being procured by previous administration)..

I mean..the price matter should be talked in previous negotiation and not on final stages of procurement process..this shown how amateurish behaviour of this adminstration..and their supporters (known as Jokowow fans club in here)..still believe this amateurish administration is the best administrations on Indonesian history..simply because thay already 'amazed' by Jokowi profiles..

Simply a mess if this turn out to be true..If they don't want to procured SU-35 and prefered another Fighter..simply stated from begining..geeezs this adminstration's track record on defense procurement turn out worse than Philipines..
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Old September 22nd, 2017   #857
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The Indonesian SU-35 procurement saga seems still continue:

November, Indonesia dan Rusia Tanda Tangani Kontrak Pembelian 11 Sukhoi - Kompas.com

20th November, an Article in Kompas online stated Minister of Defence statement that contract for procurement 11 SU-35 will be signed in November.

Kemahalan, Pemerintah Nego Ulang Harga Barter 11 Sukhoi - Kompas.com

Two days latter, another article in same Kompas online stated Deputy Minister of Trade statement that the Government want to 'renegotiate' SU-35 deal on the ground that the individual price of SU-35 is still to high..

Geezzss...I hate going politics in this thread..but really this shown after close to 4 years in power, this administrations still shown lack of coordination between ministry. Same thing that they shown since this administration come to power.

It had been indicated the price of one SU-35 is the range of USD 90 mio+, but somehow someone or some party whispering to this administration that the price is actually USD 45mio-USD 65mio..(which coincidently is the range that similar to price range of SU-30MK2 that being procured by previous administration)..

I mean..the price matter should be talked in previous negotiation and not on final stages of procurement process..this shown how amateurish behaviour of this adminstration..and their supporters (known as Jokowow fans club in here)..still believe this amateurish administration is the best administrations on Indonesian history..simply because thay already 'amazed' by Jokowi profiles..

Simply a mess if this turn out to be true..If they don't want to procured SU-35 and prefered another Fighter..simply stated from begining..geeezs this adminstration's track record on defense procurement turn out worse than Philipines..
Ananda - how much is that driven by lack of coordination, or a 3rd party wanted to insert something or be involved in the deal? I know the latter part smells like conspiracy paranoia, but anecdotally, such things are common in Indonesian government procurement.

I do agree with you that Jokowi administration has not shown a lot of coherence and hollistic planning, but could that be a function of the current admin put higher priorities on non-defence procurement and projects?

The reality is - Indonesian defence procurement has always been murky, not to mention corrupt, and half baked (how many fitted-for-but-not-with items, too many). The current admin has opportunities to show that it does not have to be that way, but so far, they have come up short.
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Old September 22nd, 2017   #858
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Well, not much murkier than most of developing countries defense procurement deal. Take a look with rest of ASEAN, controversional Scorpene deal, and Polish MBT in Malaysia, Thailand submarine deal with China that undercut proven German Subs that Thai Navy really want, Vietnam defence procurement that can suddenly pop up with fund that not originally budgeted in defence budget, and don't talk about Philipine's ones..Only Singapore in wholle Asean that has clear structured defence budgeting, procurement process.

Still the subsequent Admin in Indonesia has try to make clearer defense procurement process. Begin with previous Admin that try more structured process with emphasis on G to G process, instead relly on multiple intermediary agents. Theoritically, this has been follow through by this Admin, eventough involvement of Agents still exist. However what I'm getting at, this Admin despite it's pledge on more transparant and spedier process, turn out not get much procurement deal being done. Much of big items deal, like Leopard2 MBT, Ceasar 155 gun, Towed Howitser, Shorad SAM, PKR10514 light frigates, Corvettes, LPD, LST, RAS equiped Tanker, F-16, C-295, ASW choper, etc..all originating with contracts and deals made by previous Admin. Whille their own originating deals, much endured prollonged decision making process that in fact making it murkier than previous admin.

The way they are doing the deal in fact shown questionable multiple parties involvement. Take a look back to this SU-35 deal. Ministry of defences sould hold the control on the deal, whille involvement of Trade Ministry should only control the counter trade aspects of the deal, and not the procurement deal it self. But take a look of those two contradicting statement. Defence Ministry says practically the deal has been agreed and contactual process is iminent, while the Trade Ministry simply say..hold on..no deal is being finish..we want to renegotiate..

This going to make potential confusion on any future procurement defense items..and mockery to the process. The regulation stated defense deal in the realm of Defense Ministry..and why on sudden that Trade Ministry that should only handle counter trade part of the deal can have a 'veto' on the defense deal ?

Why actually happen ??..well it can be some parties want to get more involvement in counter trade deal..can it also some party still want to scuttle SU-35 deal and put another fighter instead..it can be other reasons..but what matter is it become more and more murkier and unprofessional process. Talking about renegotiating the deal based only on prices in wikipedia ? Come on..that a very 'stupid Joke' and it come out from a high rangking official in this Adminstrations..shown the quality of decision making process in this Adminstration in fact regressing instead improving from previous admin (like many Jokowi supporter try to potrait in media's)..
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Old September 23rd, 2017   #859
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I do recalled that UK did try to block Hawks delivery to Indonesia at the time, I'm not sure its because of Aceh or East Timor issues?

They abandoned the plane in the middle of ferry flight to Indonesia, it was by the time they do a stopover in Thailand the UK gov? told their delivery team to left the plane and go home immediately iirc.
Yes, that's correctly. From which i remember it was in 1999, during the Timor-Timur issues.


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Originally Posted by Ananda View Post
The Indonesian SU-35 procurement saga seems still continue:

November, Indonesia dan Rusia Tanda Tangani Kontrak Pembelian 11 Sukhoi - Kompas.com

20th November, an Article in Kompas online stated Minister of Defence statement that contract for procurement 11 SU-35 will be signed in November.

Kemahalan, Pemerintah Nego Ulang Harga Barter 11 Sukhoi - Kompas.com

Two days latter, another article in same Kompas online stated Deputy Minister of Trade statement that the Government want to 'renegotiate' SU-35 deal on the ground that the individual price of SU-35 is still to high..

Geezzss...I hate going politics in this thread..but really this shown after close to 4 years in power, this administrations still shown lack of coordination between ministry. Same thing that they shown since this administration come to power.

It had been indicated the price of one SU-35 is the range of USD 90 mio+, but somehow someone or some party whispering to this administration that the price is actually USD 45mio-USD 65mio..(which coincidently is the range that similar to price range of SU-30MK2 that being procured by previous administration)..

I mean..the price matter should be talked in previous negotiation and not on final stages of procurement process..this shown how amateurish behaviour of this adminstration..and their supporters (known as Jokowow fans club in here)..still believe this amateurish administration is the best administrations on Indonesian history..simply because thay already 'amazed' by Jokowi profiles..

Simply a mess if this turn out to be true..If they don't want to procured SU-35 and prefered another Fighter..simply stated from begining..geeezs this adminstration's track record on defense procurement turn out worse than Philipines..
Sad but true, i cant explain it better.
If these professional negotiators want to get a state of the art aircraft like the Su-35 for the price of a Su-30MK, they will also get a completely stripped off Su-35 with the capacity of a Su-27SKM, maybe also without spareparts and some important components.

But here some articles from last year.

It seems that the current amazing administration has ordered three Eurostar E3000 military communication satellites from Airbus Group.

http://www.indomiliter.com/2019-sate...-luar-angkasa/
http://www.indomiliter.com/eurostar-...ter-indonesia/
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #860
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Got this from internet and local military forum. Seems Indonesian Army Apache in final preparation test by Boeing before sending to the users.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #861
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Got this from internet and local military forum. Seems Indonesian Army Apache in final preparation test by Boeing before sending to the users.
Thank you for sharing, although you post it in the wrong thread... 😉
When were the eight AH-64Es ordered? 2012, 2014? Deliveries always takes so much time if you order from the US.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #862
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Thank you for sharing, although you post it in the wrong thread... 😉
When were the eight AH-64Es ordered? 2012, 2014? Deliveries always takes so much time if you order from the US.
If not mistaken the contract finalise in end 2014, with Boeing being prepared the fabrication in 2015..1st batch supossedly being delivered by either November or December this year. 3 years for US brand new product I think still within normal time frame.

Any way this thread is about Indonesian Aero..thus even Apache belong to Army, but it's Aero news.😊
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #863
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Indonesia Selects NASAMS Air Defence System

Indonesian order of 1 batery (6 launchers) of Norwegian Nasams short medium range SAM. Will be used for Capital City area defense. The Jakarta Area Defense is not existance since early 70's when the last SA-2 Area defense SAM being taken from operational service.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #864
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Indonesia Selects NASAMS Air Defence System

Indonesian order of 1 batery (6 launchers) of Norwegian Nasams short medium range SAM. Will be used for Capital City area defense. The Jakarta Area Defense is not existance since early 70's when the last SA-2 Area defense SAM being taken from operational service.
It’s clearly an impressive system. Australia chose it as the basis of our new air defence system earlier this year as well...
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #865
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NASAMS open architecture system make it flexibel and can be integrated with various Air Defence system in Inventory like Oerlikon Sky Shield.

I think this make main reason on choosing Nasams over other contender system from Cina and Russia.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #866
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NASAMS open architecture system make it flexibel and can be integrated with various Air Defence system in Inventory like Oerlikon Sky Shield.

I think this make main reason on choosing Nasams over other contender system from Cina and Russia.
I thought the contract is for the system sans the actual missile. The DSCA notification for AMRAAM was for the F-16s, not for a ground-based system AFAIK.

On a related note, what's the news about KFX/IFX budget fiasco? Mrs Sri Mulyani has got to be pulling her hair out over this one. I heard that military satellite budget is facing the same issue (late addition to an agreed budget?).
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Old 1 Week Ago   #867
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Indonesia Selects NASAMS Air Defence System

Indonesian order of 1 batery (6 launchers) of Norwegian Nasams short medium range SAM. Will be used for Capital City area defense. The Jakarta Area Defense is not existance since early 70's when the last SA-2 Area defense SAM being taken from operational service.
At last,after decades of only low cost low altitude short range air defence systems....
But its only a contract for the (empty) NASAMS system, the missiles have to be ordered in a separate contract with the US.
Its a very capable system, comparable with the VL-ADS version of the MICA, but choosing a system which uses the American AMRAAM missiles, you make yourself vulnerable for American embargos. What if the US doesn't want to sell these missiles to us? Than we have a $77 million hightech SAM-system with empty launch tubes.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #868
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@rom..on the budgetery fiasco..what can I say..except it shows what I've been saying for long time that the profesionalism of Mindef is just getting down hill during this administration..I never say that during previous administration that their profesionalism already in world standard..but at least shown improving trend..now they just getting worse..

It's a very mess up budgetary practices by mindef and I don't blame ministry of finance just pull the rug on this year mindef budget implementation..holding payments for KFX/IFX and Military Satelite has to be done to save overall multi year budget..the mindef simply stated/forward one version of budget to ministry of finance and later on told different budget to parliement, and ask non budgetary fund to cover their mess...

As for missiles..well since AMRAAM is not produce by Norway..well it's logical the missiles must be acquaired on seperate deals. On reliance to US missiles..I read somewhere in internet (thus not verified)..Nasams system can be modified for other BVR missiles with similar specs and measurement like Raphael Derby or Danel Darter..
Like I said before, Nasams open and flexible system, that attracted TNI on acquaring the system.
Rumours says that TNI actually also interested with Spyder..but I think they simply have difficulty to say Spyder is Philipines build, just like when they bought Heron, and saying it's Philipines build, with Israel Tech..
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Old 1 Week Ago   #869
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I have nothing good to say about the current minister of defense. The president should've fired him after the first year, but maybe he feels he has to give the Armed Forces something. The current minister of defense is a retired general and there is/was a widespread thinking that the ministry of defense ought to be staffed by ex-soldiers because "they'll know defense better than a civvie". Well, hopefully people will have learned better next time.

The satellite has been canceled by Airbus due to failure to pay the initial downpayment before the deadline. This is a good thing. The supposed need for a military satellite isn't urgent and whenever I hear the defense minister or some generals try to justify it they just fumbled it. (hint: they need the satellite not only for communication, but also for navigation and intelligence) Except of course it's considered unpatriotic to outright deny "a defense need". But notice that nothing happened. If the need for a military satellite had indeed been that urgent heads would have rolled at this fumbling.

I'm sure the armed forces will try again to get a satellite. That's okay. Given a few years the armed forces may get to a stage where they actually need a communication satellite just for themselves, and perhaps by then they will have learned how to do proper budgeting. But for now it's canceled.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #870
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@rom..on the budgetery fiasco..what can I say..except it shows what I've been saying for long time that the profesionalism of Mindef is just getting down hill during this administration..I never say that during previous administration that their profesionalism already in world standard..but at least shown improving trend..now they just getting worse..

It's a very mess up budgetary practices by mindef and I don't blame ministry of finance just pull the rug on this year mindef budget implementation..holding payments for KFX/IFX and Military Satelite has to be done to save overall multi year budget..the mindef simply stated/forward one version of budget to ministry of finance and later on told different budget to parliement, and ask non budgetary fund to cover their mess...

As for missiles..well since AMRAAM is not produce by Norway..well it's logical the missiles must be acquaired on seperate deals. On reliance to US missiles..I read somewhere in internet (thus not verified)..Nasams system can be modified for other BVR missiles with similar specs and measurement like Raphael Derby or Danel Darter..
Like I said before, Nasams open and flexible system, that attracted TNI on acquaring the system.
Rumours says that TNI actually also interested with Spyder..but I think they simply have difficulty to say Spyder is Philipines build, just like when they bought Heron, and saying it's Philipines build, with Israel Tech..
I agree with you. The accountability culture is not there yet for some officials, current Mindef is a good example. My assumption is that the person still stays at his post as an appeasement to the military to support the current coalition.

I am excited though seeing that there is a non-SHORAD system being purchased and put in place. I hope that the service did put it through rigorous testings and live fire exercise as the Army is doing with the new Leos. I know that missiles ain't cheap, but better spend them on exercise vs having them sitting inside ammo depot. I think the Army had lots of lots of Rapiers (based on announced contract value then) but never end up putting them out for live fire ex.

If they wanted Spyder, they should get Spyder. Hell, while they're at it, get some Phython 5 too ....
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