Indian Air Force To Buy 126 Multi-Role Planes

yasin_khan

New Member
The Indian government has given the air force a green light to purchase 126 multi-role aircraft, Air Chief Marshal S.P. Tyagi said Feb. 7.

?At the moment, the government has cleared the purchase of 126 aircraft. We are taking information from four countries, the United States, France, Sweden and Russia,? Tyagi told reporters on the fringes of an aero-space seminar. ?We are seeking information (on various aircraft). It could be single engine or twin engine (jets). The field is right open.?

?Once we get the information, we will go ahead and seek requests for proposals. We will study those proposals and carry out a technical evaluation .... Then we will do commercial negotiations,? Tyagi said.
All the aircraft would be bought from a single manufacturer, he said, adding,? We cannot buy half from one and half from another because it increases our difficulties.?

France?s Dassault and U.S. giant Lockheed have long been considered frontrunners to upgrade the Indian air force.

The Indian Air Force (IAF) has about 1,500 aircraft, but has lost a number jets, particularly Russian-made MiG-21s, which have been nicknamed ?flying coffins? in India.

Tyagi said there was no fixed timeframe for the acquisitions but, ?as chief of air staff, I want it today.?

He refused to put a price on the acquisitions.

?It?s too early because each aircraft comes with a lot of systems, weapons, so I cannot even hazard a guess,? he said.

The seminar precedes India?s annual air show which opens in Bangalore on Feb. 9. Lockheed Martin is showcasing F-16 fighters alongside Russia?s Sukhois, MiG-29 and MiG-21 jets and Dassault?s Mirage 2000.

The air chief said India?s home-grown Light Combat Aircraft, whose development has been delayed by a decade due to US sanctions and technical difficulties, would also be flying with the IAF soon.

Last year, New Delhi decided to buy 66-advanced jet trainers from Britain in a deal worth more than a billion dollars which had been under negotiation since the 1980s.

http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?F=639391&C=asiapac

These type of purchasements will unbalance the situation in South Asia.And it will change the whle enviroment.
 

XEROX

New Member
these type of purchasements will unbalance the situation in South Asia.And it will change the whle enviroment.
You will find that it has been "un-balanced" for quite a time now, and will be for a long time aswell.

IAF needs the 126 a/c to replace the dinasours in the inventory, personally i would love the rafaele or maybe even the F-16, but that aint happening, it will probably be the Mirage

btw does anyone have images of HALs Combat Air Trainer (CAT):coffee
 

Swaroop

New Member
I feel that F-16 Should NOT be allowed a place in the IAF!!!

First of all, we have had enough accidents flying single engine aircraft such as the MiG 21, 23, 27. and recently even Mirage2000s crashed :(

so, India must buy a two engined aircraft, such as the F-15E strike eagle, or, the Rafale or the best option , MiG-29MRC!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

XEROX

New Member
Well i think im right in asuming the F-16 has one of the best safty and maintenance records, correct me if im wrong

and regarding the twin engined ac, the next IAF trainers will be twin engined !!??!!:coffee
 
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adsH

New Member
PJ-10 BrahMos said:
Well i think im right to say the F-16 has one of the best safty and maintenace records, correct me if im wrong

and regarding the twin engined ac, the next IAF trainers will be twin engined:coffee
F-16 is a brilliant all-rounder, But it can also sweep low to Russian Standards, if its not taken care off. If PAF can maintain Low Attrition Rate within their given Budget, then I see no reason why IAF cannot do the Same, Iaf Problem is similar to what Luftwaffe suffered during its time with the Star fighter. IAF needs a radical Change in its Maintenance Doctrine. And then it can Purchase anything and Keep it flying through the Course of Time. I personally think the Winner is Mirage since it would be the Lowest Cost and Cost effective Purchase, while upgrading the Existing Mirages in the Package too.
 

XEROX

New Member
I personally think the Winner is Mirage since it would be the Lowest Cost and Cost effective Purchase

IAF is happy with the mirage because it is reliable and also the above mentioned, personally I think they are bartering for some technologies which is on the Rafael[font=&quot][/font]
 

ajay_ijn

New Member
does anyone have images of HALs Combat Air Trainer (CAT)
I think that is still in conceptual stages.
It is the replacement of Hawk AJT.

India is considering the purchase of F-16 too.
I don't know suddenly where from Gripen popped up in to the list.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1015679.cms
Sonic Boom: India makes a pitch for F-16s

WASHINGTON: India's decision to cast a wide procurement net for fighter planes to include the US-made F-16s has sent a sonic boom through defence aviation circles given the fighter jet's touchstone status in neighbouring Pakistan.

New Delhi's hand in this matter was disclosed on the margins of the Aero-India show in Bangalore with Air Force Chief S P Tyagi revealing the IAF has sought information from four foreign aircraft makers, including F-16 maker Lockheed Martin, in its bid buy 126 new jets over the next four to five years.

The other producers include makers of the Swedish SAAB (Grippen), Russian MiG-29 M2 (MiG RAC) and French Mirage 2000-5 (Dassault). The IAF has Russian, French and British fighter jets in its 1500-plane inventory. Buying the F-16 will be a first.



Although the IAF move of calling for a "Request For Information" (RFI in defence procurement parlance) is just the initial step in a long (longest, in India's case) drawn out process, the news travelled at Mach speed through aviation circles.

"Consideration of Lockheed Martin would have been unthinkable just four years ago, when the US maintained military sanctions against New Delhi following India's May 1998 nuclear tests. But sanctions were phased out starting in late 2001, and bilateral ties have since flourished," the forum F-16.net reported, within hours of Tyagi's remarks.

Lockheed Martin executives have already made an initial pitch and the sale will be a shoo-in if India can pony up the money (up to $ 25 million apiece amounting to a tidy $ 3 billion over five years). The jet will also need to be integrated into an air force whose cutting edge is Sukhois, Mirages, Jaguars and MiGs, besides the nascent LCA Tejas.

Defence circles say it is rare for an air force to have such a wide inventory, especially since some of the suppliers (such as Lockheed Martin and Dassault) are sales rivals. But a few countries, notably Greece, Egypt and Taiwan, have a mix of the rival aircraft.

New Delhi's eyeing of F-16s is all the more curious considering the fighter jet constitutes a core item in neighbouring Pakistan's defence preparedness, and indeed in its national psyche.

Pakistan claims to have been traumatized by the alleged US perfidy in reneging on a contract to supply around 70 F-16s in the late 1980s. US officials say the planes were held up because of congressional laws that required Pakistan not to go nuclear to get US aid and that Islamabad crossed the line in the sand, fully aware of the consequences.

Washington has since squared its accounts with Islamabad by returning (in cash and goods) the money Pakistan had advanced towards the purchase. But the episode has scarred Islamabad and its military rulers still make periodic pleas to the US for F-16s.

The Pakistan Air Force had acquired 40 F-16s in the late 1980s, but by 1998 eight of them were deemed attrited and only 32 were believed to be in service.

The mere thought of India acquiring F-16s could be a devastating blow to Pakistan. At the same time, the IAF's move could also open the door for Washington to lift its curbs on resuming supplies to Pakistan.

In either or both cases, the multi-billion dollar bill involved in the transaction will be a huge burden on the national exchequer.

The F-16 is also known as the Viper and is acknowledged by some as the finest fighter jet in the world. It is not an entirely unfamiliar item to India.

Some Indian test pilots have flown it during their visits to the United States (to check for LCA systems), but it was not until the last couple of years that Indian pilots came face to face with it in exercises with the air forces of Singapore and Israel, both of which field F-16s.
 

adsH

New Member
i Don't get it the Indian Media First Plays down the Capability of the F-16 when they talk about it from the PAF prospective but then Suddenly the F-16 becomes the Finest when it come down to IAF Procuring them. Can they at least Make there Minds up.

I think this is a trap, what they are trying to do here is Prevent PAF from Procuring SAAB Grippens and F-16 by Tying up Saab and Lockheed in a Bid Down loop that would last for a better part of a quarter of a century. I don't think Lockheed nor Saab are going to allow PAF to Move on to French Options such as Rafael (The AC). If PAf makes the Move then Lockheed can Kiss Good Bye there Market Dominance on PAF and Various other i.e. RSAF Forces and for what a One in a million chance that IAF may choose there AC after 20 years of evaluation even when IAFs Procurement Pattern would suggest Mirages as the Cheapest Option and Cost effective option for them. Its Just all a front for the Press Everyone Knows PAF is about to Sign a deal with Lockheed and is ready to Purchase SAAB Grippens, so suddenly IAF Shouts out for New bids trying to Lure Developers in the 126 Fighter Deal.

Besides you can't win War just with Technology PAF like other Forces Utilizes Blend of Training Doctrine and Technology, Its the way things work The AC is small part of the Defense, Paying too much attention on toys rather then Doctrine is a fatal error.
 

ajay_ijn

New Member
Besides you can't win War just with Technology PAF like other Forces Utilizes Blend of Training Doctrine and Technology, Its the way things work The AC is small part of the Defense, Paying too much attention on toys rather then Doctrine is a fatal error.
Your Right,
Army and Navy Changed its doctrines accrding to the situations but Air-Force is yet to make any decision.
Even performance in conflicts must be considered.
Mirage-2000 was a big hit during Kargil War,IAF Just loves Mirages so they did want to buy them.
Its Just all a front for the Press Everyone Knows PAF is about to Sign a deal with Lockheed and is ready to Purchase SAAB
Sweden refused to sell any weapons to pakistan during the Perverz visit to sweden last year in july.
http://in.rediff.com/news/2004/jul/07pak.htm
so suddenly IAF Shouts out for New bids trying to Lure Developers in the 126 Fighter Deal.
Actually if IAF Gets F-16 then automatically Pakistan will get them too.
 
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adsH

New Member
ajay_ijn said:
Your Right,

Actually if IAF Gets F-16 then automatically Pakistan will get them too.
It wouldn't make PAF a difference If IAF Purchases the Same F-16, But it would Irk IAF planners since PAF would Have the Same Jet in service as a second line Area Defense fighter, IAF is going to form its Backbone with these 126 fighters, IAF will definitely Request Denial of F-16 to PAF. Which may or may not come depending on the changing strategic situation for the US in that region.

 

adsH

New Member
ajay_ijn said:
Sweden Foriegn minister to sell any weapons to pakistan during the Perverz visit to sweden last year in july.
http://in.rediff.com/news/2004/jul/07pak.htm
Its an Old news, the last time I had heard SAAB was willing and the Parliamentary comity that decides clearance had decided to sell the weapon system. There has been no official request yet for the AC. the defense minister was following the rules to the letter at that time since there was no request, and the Parliament had not given out an approval. the Swedes are dying to sell Grippens, and if they land the PAF deal they can sure as hell count the Saudi's in too. Saudis have a Bulk requirement.


Do you honestly believe that if a President of a nation makes an official State visit to a Country for the First time! The Host Country would slap him out right on his blank face. Do you honestly believe that? Look at the pattern Saab has kept all the Negotiations secret i.e. Away from the press. And refusing a request made by a dignitary on an official state visit is un-heard off (Protocols are followed Notifications are private). Not even Russia would attempt such a thing with Pakistan. This Is a Political Language its very confusing to people his statement was quoted but it indicated a different response, the Comments are open ended so anyone can make whatever they want to make out of it.

If I remember correctly Musharaf only indicated that he was going to purchase the Saab AEW&C, and he said they were interested in Grippens. The Minister was quoted saying "There is no question of selling them weapons or anything directly related to weapons," First off he acknowledges the AEW&C is not a weapon as its out in the open that Pakistan will purchase the System. Before that he Sweeps lower to cover his back and acknowledges that there are no requests for Grippens, so you see Political language is dissimilar to our language and can be completely misunderstood if Extracts are taken out of the whole text.
 
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A

Aussie Digger

Guest
Yep, supplying weapons to both sides in a difficult "strategic" situation doesn't pose any great problems for the US. They have sold F-16's to both Turkey and Greece in the past...
 

kashifshahzad

Banned Member
:coffee I think Indai has already 1500 fighter planes.Why should India wants to manufacture its own planes like Pakistan(I know they are not multirole fighter but they are intercepters )they can do well onthe battle ground:coffee
 

cerilchan

New Member
yes can buy f16d/c series of block 50 series, but they must chose ge engine f110, because pw100-229 and pw100-220 are problem engine.and they have check into the maintenance problem.
 

aaaditya

New Member
in an interview today in ndtv news the indian airchief stated the iaf will sign a deal with hal for purchasing a first batch of 40 lca's and an option for (20 more) in a deal worth rs4000crores(that is each lca will cost 22.8 million us dollars)the weaponisation alogrithms are ready for the lca and the weapons testing will begin this year.
british aerospace has offered india ef2000 typhoon with full technology transfer.
snecma has claimed that it is assisting india in the javeri programme.
mbda has stated that it will make india a hub for its missile and software outsourcing .it has also stated that india is considering mbda missiles for the bangalore class of warships and that the missiles have also been offered for the iaf.
a lot is information is filtering out this aeroindia.
tommorow at 8.30pm ist there is a documentary on the aeroindia 2005 with discussions on all the related news on the ndtv looking eagerly for ward to any titbits from that source.:D
 

ajay_ijn

New Member
I think Indai has already 1500 fighter planes
Nope,India has 683+ Fighters.Others are Trainers,Helo's,Transport Planes.
They Comprise of
Air Superiorty/Multirole:
3 Mig-29 Sqns
3 Mirage-2000 sqns
3 Su-30MKI sqns
4 Mig-21 Bison sqns
6 Mig-21 Bis sqns

Ground Attack:
6 Mig-27 sqns
3 Mig-23BN sqns
4 Mig-21 M/MF
6 Jaguar IS Sqns

Second Line:
1 Canberra sqn
1 Mig-23MF sqn
1 Mig-25R sqn
5 Mig-21FL sqns
 
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ajay_ijn

New Member
UK lobbying for selling Eurofighter to IAF
http://www.deccanherald.com/deccanherald/feb022005/i7.asp

The British government is “pushing hard†for India to purchase the Eurofighter for the IAF, a visiting Indian MP has revealed.

Congress MP Jyotiraditya Scindia, who is co-chair of a delegation of cross-party MPs and businessmen from the Federation of Indian Chambers of Commerce and Industry (FICCI) currently visiting London, told Deccan Herald that the issue of selling the Eurofighter, developed jointly by the UK, Germany, Italy and Spain, was raised by British Defence Procurement Minister Lord Bach last Monday.

Other MPs who were received by Lord Bach include Shiv Sena’s Suresh Prabhu, BJP’s Ananth Kumar, Anand Sharma and Ajay Maken of Congress, Samajwadi’s Akilesh Yadav and Rajya Sabha MP Lalit Puri.

India recently signed a $1 billion deal to purchase 66 Advanced Jet Trainer (AJT) aircraft from the UK and the idea of future defence deals involving other fighter aircraft has now been raised by British officials and defence exporters in London.
“As you know the AJT deal has been finalised and that’s close to a billion dollar deal for 66 jets, but there’s also the issue of upgrading six squadrons of MiG 21s and the UK government is pushing hard for the Eurofighter,†Mr Scindia told Deccan Herald in an exclusive interview.
This is the most unlikely to happen (India Buying EF)
But India is giving surprises these days by considering F-16.

Now Pakistan Says that it has no problem if India gets F-16 but they must too get F-16.

'Pak, India should both get F-16 jets'


Washington, February 12: Pakistan would not object to India buying American-made F-16s if Islamabad is also permitted to acquire the sophisticated fighter jets, Pakistan's ambassador to Washington said on Friday.
"As long as we are on the list for F-16s, it's all right if India gets them," Ambassador Jehangir Karamat told Reuters.

"We wouldn't have any problem because we have no problem with India buying defense equipment worldwide. We are no longer in an arms race with them," he said of Pakistan's South Asian nuclear rival. The comments seemed designed to open new political possibilities for advancing Pakistan's stalled 15-year quest for the F-16 fighters and to strike a contrast with India, which has opposed the sale to Islamabad.



Sounds Funny Both countries will get same Fighter Plane and also in large numbers and also in front line Positions.
But It would vastly depend of which versions India and Pakistan would get.
 
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adsH

New Member
PJ-10 BrahMos said:
Guys, F-1616E/F (block 60) is about 50-55 million while the F-1616C/D (block 50/52) is ??



Establishing a Logistical foot print for the Lockheed jets would be too pricy would take years, while the French mirages would complement the Numbers by adding extra Squadron as they are inducted. F-16 is not a good option, As i have said Pakistan would have no problem with the Deal since Pakistan Is more concerned with warfare and doctrine not the equipment as equipment itself is a mere tool to achieve the intended goal. BAE systems Equipment would be alot more suited since Bae has a large presence, but Euro fighter is too pricey!!. F-16 Block 60 is again out of the question its too pricy for a large order such as this. Remember Unit price is a fraction of the Cost, that will be incurred during the product lifetime.
 
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