India Opposes Sale Of F-16s By US To Pak

XEROX

New Member
India Opposes Sale Of F-16s By US To Pak

New York, Oct. 22 (NNN) : Even though the US maintains that no sales of F-16s to Pakistan are being contemplated, India is voicing concern about reports of a renewed Pakistani effort to buy the fighter jets, The Washington Times says

“We are against introducing such advanced weaponry into South Asia,†an unnamed Indian government official was quoted saying. “They are not useful in the war on terror, and experience has shown that they could be used against India. They could spark a buildup or a weapons race in the region,†said the paper.

In September, the Pakistani press carried a statement by a Pakistani defence official saying the US had agreed to consider selling the nation F-16 fighter jets. Last week, Rear Admiral Craig McDonald, head of the office of the US defence representative in Pakistan, was quoted in press reports telling a Pentagon-organized conference on security cooperation that the Bush administration would go before Congress early next year to seek authorization for the sale.

“It’s a very long, involved process that will be taken up with our Congress,†he was quoted by a British news agency. Participants in a six-day US-India forum sponsored by the Aspen Institute and the Confederation of Indian Industry that ended Tuesday said they told Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld that such a sale, while manageable for the Indian military, would be taken badly by the Indian public, the newspaper said.

Rumsfeld did not comment on the prospects of the sale of the F-16s at the meeting on Monday, the participants said. But a retired senior Indian military officer said he understood the plan called for an initial sale of 18 planes, with another 62 aircraft to be sold later.

The State Department, however, bluntly refuted the idea on Tuesday. “There has been absolutely no decision taken anywhere, at any level of the US government, on the sale of F-16s to Pakistan,†a department official said on the condition of anonymity.

The official said that the sale of F-16s to Pakistan, along with dozens of other issues relating to US-Pakistan relations, had been on the table for months, but nothing had changed.

“Everyone wants to know if the ball has moved. The ball has not moved,†the official said.

Washington sold 40 F-16s to Pakistan from 1983 through 1987, during the period Pakistan supported US in its efforts to drive the Soviet Union out of Afghanistan. But in 1990, Congress passed legislation halting delivery of the jets for fear that Pakistan had built a nuclear bomb.

US concerns over a Pakistani nuclear device proved correct in May 1998 when Pakistan carried out nuclear weapons tests in response to tests by India. However, since September 11 attacks in the US, Pakistan has re-emerged as a key US ally in the war on terrorism.

http://www.indolink.com/displayArticleS.php?id=102104105823

"They are not useful in the war on terror, and experience has shown that they could be used against India" :xmas
 

adsH

New Member
well thaaaaaa!! which part of the world have you guys been in.almost all the stuff Pakistan has been given from the US is to strengthen Pakistani Armed forces that have one single aim and that is to defend and protect the county's interest that includes keeping an enemy 5 times its size at bay!!. the US has to provide those articles to maintain the balance in the region. F-16 would only insure that a deadlock remains, which would hold off a conflict. this hold off then gives the Pakistanis the Comfort space where they can carry out with the Anti terror operations!! its simple logic if you guys can't see it then your a lost cause!!!
 

mysterious

New Member
First and foremost, these half-hearted and double standard cries by the Indian side make me want to puke!! Their main point is that such 'advanced' tech should not be introduced in South Asia; let me ask some Indians, what the 'hell' are you doing by leasing nuclear subs from Russia, discussing Arrow systems with Israel, piling up Su-30s, and what not?!?!?!? Isn't all that 'advanced' tech or do you think that the entire world is dillusional?? :mad
 

srirangan

Banned Member
See the US pretence of selling equipment to Pak is that Pak needs them to fight Al Queda. India is just pointing out that US selling F16's to Pak doesn't help them fight terror, instead is help's them against India.

adsH,
Allow me to say, that US doesn't care about regional balances. Pak is getting all this aid just to kill off Al-Queda. If it weren't for that, US wouldn't sell shit no matter what advanced tech's the Indians acquired. US doesn't care about Pak, I think Pak would be better off distancing itself from such an "ally" like the US.

Once Osama Bin Laden is caught and the jehadi's are contained, do you think Musharraf will get the treatment he has been getting?
 

Pathfinder-X

Tribal Warlord
Verified Defense Pro
I agree with Srir, the only reason U.S is giving large amount of suppot to Pak is because of american interest. Once the threat to U.S has been contained, americans will give Pak the boot faster than you can blink.

And getting those F-16 MLU's might not be such a good idea. We've all seen what sanctions can do to F-16 A/B's pak pocess. Getting a new batch while the american is close to their goals isn't exactly the smartest thing to do.
 

mysterious

New Member
How close the Americans are to their goals depends on Pakistan! It is up to the Pakistani government to hand over militants one by one over a long period of time so that in the meantime, it can get the military equipment it requires and other benefits. Also, Sri's highlightening of the fact that the Indian government just innocently pointed out that "US selling F16's to Pak doesn't help them fight terror, instead is help's them against India" is the less important reason of India's objection; the main one being "introduction of advanced tech" which I already have countered. I also do not believe that US is not interested in some sort of a balance in South Asia because if it wasn't then it also shouldn't have been interested in scaling down Indo-Pak tensions after the attack on the Indian parlianment and would've let the two countries take a go at each other. US, as far as I can see, wants some sort of a balance but it is tilting it towards India bit by bit just to counter China while the Chinese will make sure they keep Pakistani forces updated with their tech (which is also improving day by day - added to that the Pakistani capability of producing hybrid tech made from Western and Chinese ones) to keep the Pakistani headache for India online. :smokingc:
 

srirangan

Banned Member
Myst,
You make it sound like India and Pak are just small pawns in the hands of US and China. I don't think that's fair on your part, adversaries that we are, we both will agree that we both are strong adversaries and not pawns in someone else's hands.
 

lalith prasad

Banned Member
i beleive that usa would also like to develop india as a strategic counter to china.thats why us is offering defence equipment to india 9also to make it dependent on us for spares).recently they asked for berthing facilities for their aircraft ,and ships in india and joint patrolling of the ior.they found kochi port to be ideal for this purpose and have also evaluated kochi ship repair facilities.they want to neutralise chinese influence in the ior ,there have been news reports ehich have stated they wanted nations(australia,japan and southkorea) to collaborate with india.they are also supporting india's bid to acquire 2000000nm of sea terriotery(3.75million square kilometers.for polymettalic nodule research(as pioneers of pem research)
 

lalith prasad

Banned Member
hey guys check out todays times of india article indian su30 have proved to be superior to singaporean airforce f-16s in terms maneuverability and avionics and weapon systems,also india is going to try out their mirage2000 and mig29 against singaporean f-16s i beleive singapore has f-16 block52c's .they have been subjected to mlu 9either by usa or israel iam not exactly sure , i think it is israel as singapore found it to be comparable and less expensive than the mlu offered by usa) www.times of india.com.
(the article has been titled "dont fret if pakistan gets f-16s".)
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
lalith prasad said:
there have been news reports ehich have stated they wanted nations(australia,japan and southkorea) to collaborate with india.
actually, it's been in reverse, the issue of the US dealing with the region in a far more pro-active manner has been actively pushed by Australia - not the other way around. I think the Indian papers might have got their message confused..
 

srirangan

Banned Member
Yep, not new news, posting the article below:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/896301.cms

NEW DELHI: India need not lose sleep even if Pakistan manages to acquire more F-16 fighters from the US. After plastering American combat pilots in an exercise earlier this year, IAF top guns now have another reason to be gung ho: their top-notch mean machines have proved more than a match for F-16s, the much-vaunted 'fighting falcons'.

Russian-origin Sukhoi-30MKI jets are apparently outgunning American F-16s on "several aspects" at the ongoing Indo-Singapore air combat exercise in Gwalior.

This is the first-ever face-off between these two sophisticated war machines originating from the two former Cold War adversaries.

"Our Sukhois are doing very well against the F-16Cs (of Singapore Air Force) in terms of manoeuvrability, sophistication of avionics and weapon systems. Similarly, our MiG-29s and Mirage-2000s are also matching up to the F-16s," say IAF sources. IAF is pitting even its MiG-21s, which constitute over 45% of India's combat fleet, against F-16s during the 'Sindex-Ankush' exercise in Gwalior.

"Ever since the Pakistanis acquired F-16s from the US in the mid-1980s, we wanted to size them up. So, we are matching almost all our planes with F-16s of the Singapore Air Force, which are more advanced than the F-16s of Pakistan," said sources.

The IAF has also tasked its elite combat school to develop manoeuvres for MiG-21s to elude the radar cones of F-16s.

IAF spokesperson Squadron Leader Mahesh Upasani only said, "Results of the exercise will be assessed only after the debrief. It's premature to comment at this stage."

Instead of F-16s, the US had fielded the F-15C Eagles during the Cope India-04 exercise in February. So, the decks were promptly cleared when Singapore came knocking for training facilities with its F-16s.
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
srirangan said:
NEW DELHI: India need not lose sleep even if Pakistan manages to acquire more F-16 fighters from the US. After plastering American combat pilots in an exercise earlier this year,
That is a very cavalier statement in light of the information that has been progressively released about Cope India.

The ROE's were established by India at Indias request with odds of 3:1 against USAF aircraft and with US missile settings set to 1/3rd of normal capability to emulate specific platforms.

It was not an exercise where the F-15's were being used as they would normally - and certainly not at 3:1 odds under a missile handicap as well.
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
srirangan said:
"Our Sukhois are doing very well against the F-16Cs (of Singapore Air Force) in terms of manoeuvrability, sophistication of avionics and weapon systems. Similarly, our MiG-29s and Mirage-2000s are also matching up to the F-16s," say IAF sources. IAF is pitting even its MiG-21s, which constitute over 45% of India's combat fleet, against F-16s during the 'Sindex-Ankush' exercise in Gwalior.
One always has to be careful when making these kinds of comments.

At the recent Pitch Black exercises, Australian Hornets positively trounced the French M2k's that were in game. Australian F111's have regularly trounced USAF F-16's at Nellis (and they weren't flying "Red Air")

I wish newspapers would at least try to get information across properly as all they do is fail to represent what these events are designed to do.

The ROE's of all these things need to be known before comment is made. Otherwise the paper just looks a little silly.
 

mysterious

New Member
Propaganda never seems to end! Indian political channels lobby in the US against sale of F-16s to Pakistan saying that its 'introduction of advanced tech in South Asia' while India's military sources claim/brag about their Su-30s and their ACs' superiority over the F-16s and what not. Well if your Su-30s are so advanced and capable, then why cry about F-16 sales to Pakistan when you are so sure about beating them anyway(seems to me its the Pakistani pilots that they're scared of)?? Thinking in the two arenas in India seems to be a bit messed up! ;)
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
mysterious said:
Propaganda never seems to end! Indian political channels lobby in the US against sale of F-16s to Pakistan saying that its 'introduction of advanced tech in South Asia' while India's military sources claim/brag about their Su-30s and their ACs' superiority over the F-16s and what not. Well if your Su-30s are so advanced and capable, then why cry about F-16 sales to Pakistan when you are so sure about beating them anyway(seems to me its the Pakistani pilots that they're scared of)?? Thinking in the two arenas in India seems to be a bit messed up! ;)
I've got no doubt about the quality of the platforms - the Indian Flankers are regarded almost universally as the best of the breed. But the problem is that the press (and this applies to nearly all countries), misrepresents these training events and pumps them up to be things that have no bearing on what the purpose was intended.

It makes the whole fighter pilot thing a "Biggles" type scenario when nothing could be further from the truth.
 

P.A.F

New Member
the bottom line is that india don't need to scream and screech over salles of f-16's to pakistan because there getting su-30's, phalcon radar, russian subs and god knows what. i'm sure 18 f-16s would make that much difference. the indian press is taking it like it means the universe to them. :roll
 

corsair7772

New Member
Verified Defense Pro
I think the indians should get something to counter the gripen and Eyerie if there ever sold to pakistan. true there likely to be only 60 in number but since theyll be playing defence they can counter on a 3 2 1 ratio. I think sirri is wrong to compare IAF aircraft to the F-16 agn and agn and agn. Pakistan will never get more than 65 at most. And if you read tht JDW article entitled "Pakistan set to get Strike Edge" it has the ACm saying agn and agn that more F-16s in the inventory would be swell but well still need a hi tech AC like the M-2000 or Gripen or J-10 ( which i dont understand since the J-10 is merely an F-16 C).
 
Top