DSCA : Sale of JDAM's to Saudi Arabia

[SaudiArabian]

Saudi Arabia - Joint Direct Attack Munitions

WASHINGTON, January 14, 2008 – The Defense Security Cooperation Agency notified Congress of a possible Foreign Military Sale to Saudi Arabia of Joint Direct Attack Munitions as well as associated equipment and services. The total value, if all options are exercised, could be as high as $123 million.

The Government of Saudi Arabia has requested a possible sale of 900 Joint Direct Attack Munitions (JDAM) tail kits (which include 550 GBU-38 for MK-82, 250 GBU-31 for MK-84, 100 GBU-31 for BLU-109). Also included are bomb components, mission planning, aircraft integration, publications and technical manuals, spare and repair parts, support equipment, contractor engineering and technical support, and other related elements of program support. The estimated cost is $123 million.

This proposed sale will contribute to the foreign policy and national security of the United States by helping to improve the security of a friendly country that has been and continues to be an important force for political stability and economic progress in the Middle East. Saudi Arabia will have no difficulty absorbing this equipment into its armed forces.

The proposed sale will greatly improve the accuracy of unguided, general-purpose bombs in any weather condition enabling the Royal Saudi Air Force’s (RSAF) F-15S aircraft to participate to a greater degree in coalition operations. The proposed sale of JDAMs for use on RSAF F-15S aircraft will enhance training opportunities; increase RSAF F-15 operational capability, sustainability, and interoperability with USAF, Gulf Cooperation Council, and other coalition air forces.

The proposed sale of this equipment and support will not affect the basic military balance in the region.

The prime contractor will be The Boeing Company of St. Louis, Missouri. There are no known offset agreements in connection with this proposed sale.
Implementation of this proposed sale will require the assignment of approximately four contractor representatives to Saudi Arabia to provide technical assistance to integrate the weapons into the operational units. Also, this program will require annual Program Management Reviews in Saudi Arabia with U.S and contractor personnel participation for a period of approximately one week.

There will be no adverse impact on U.S. defense readiness as a result of this proposed sale.

This notice of a potential sale is required by law; it does not mean that the sale has been concluded.

DSCA
http://www.dsca.mil/PressReleases/36-b/2008/Saudi_Arabia_08-18.pdf

 

[ROCK45]

Mixed

I like how the article say " The proposed sale of this equipment and support will not affect the basic military balance in the region." How many other countries in the region have JDAM equipped F-15s?

Question - If the US government turns down the Kingdom and doesn't make this sale does England has a similar weapon or weapons it could sell to arm the Typhoon's? What are the Saudi's options if this sale doesn't go through?

 

[SaudiArabian]

unfrotunately this sale is small and insiginificant. it must include full transfer of technology and production of JDAM's in Saudi Arabia inorder to call it an important armsale.

I like how the article say " The proposed sale of this equipment and support will not affect the basic military balance in the region." How many other countries in the region have JDAM equipped F-15s?
?

one only ; israel.

Question - If the US government turns down the Kingdom and doesn't make this sale does England has a similar weapon or weapons it could sell to arm the Typhoon's? What are the Saudi's options if this sale doesn't go through?

its not for the benifit of US to turn this small sale down. the US secertary of defense has stated earlier that if the US doesn't sell JDAM's for the kingdom then it will easily go for other suppliers.

 

[ROCK45]

Sale

Thanks I knew Israel had them I was just joking. You mentioned if the US doesn't sell JDAM's for the kingdom then it will easily go for other suppliers. What other suppliers and weapons? Wouldn't codes for the F-15 weapons systems be needed? And does England produce a similar weapons I assume Saudi's Typhoon's in time will be duel purpose frames right? Thanks

 

[SaudiArabian]

Thanks I knew Israel had them I was just joking. You mentioned if the US doesn't sell JDAM's for the kingdom then it will easily go for other suppliers. What other suppliers and weapons?

i don't know who exactly was the US secertary of defense referring to when he stated that. perhaps the Kingdom can sign an agreement with a European defense firm to produce JDAM's of its own for Saudi F-15s

Wouldn't codes for the F-15 weapons systems be needed?

the Saudi F-15S electronice were made by AEC in the Kingdom. its technology is been transfered.

And does England produce a similar weapons I assume Saudi's Typhoon's in time will be duel purpose frames right? Thanks

i don't know

 

[ROCK45]

Saudi F-15S

Thanks for helping I didn't know the Saudi F-15S electronic were made by AEC in the Kingdom learn something new everyday.

 

[metro]

Correct me if I'm wrong, I'm too lazy right now to look for the article but iirc the UAE has and/or will be getting more JDAM tail kits for their F-16s? I believe they will be getting several other similar items (i.e. some items in the package SA is getting-- iirc not the same amount as SA) as well... Also, I think Kuwait is getting several ground munitions and such (e.g. ATs, the TOW-2A RF and TOW-2B RF).

i don't know who exactly was the US secretary of defense referring to when he stated that. perhaps the Kingdom can sign an agreement with a European defense firm to produce JDAM's of its own for Saudi F-15s

-I think he's just telling congress to make sure it goes through, regardless if, and/or the amount of complaining that they might have to do first (Election Season--this one is truly seemingly endless).

-I think the implication is basically what you said, "Either, you [congress] put the deal through, or it will go through a 3rd party." So, it goes back to the above [Obviously, I'm not his spokesman though].

-Also, iirc, Bush/Gates decided to cut the larger deal to SA (or to you guys ) into 4 smaller deals--same thing in total. This way, when each goes to congress, it "appears/disappears to public" as smaller orders won't get the same "OMG" * response as one large order *(if you understand what I'm trying to say)

Cheers!

 

[Khairul Alam]

Lets suppose the Congress allows the proposed deal to pass through. Lets also assume that in the long run Saudi Arabia gets into a confrontation with Israel. Is there any way the US can render these JDAMs ineffective??..for example preventing the Saudi JDAMs from receiving data from the GPS satellites or something else.

(I know a confrontation does between SA and Israel is as remote as it can be. The reason i am asking this question is to know whether there is any backup system the US can possible use to deny the use of JDAMs against any of its allies. When the Shah of Iran fell from power, US military staff in Iran were said to have sabotaged some of the US-supplied weapons. So i think US wud not take any chances in case of SA)

 

[SaudiArabian]

metro i think you're right , UAE and Oman appear to have had the JDAM's before.

Lets suppose the Congress allows the proposed deal to pass through. Lets also assume that in the long run Saudi Arabia gets into a confrontation with Israel. Is there any way the US can render these JDAMs ineffective??..for example preventing the Saudi JDAMs from receiving data from the GPS satellites or something else.

(I know a confrontation does between SA and Israel is as remote as it can be. The reason i am asking this question is to know whether there is any backup system the US can possible use to deny the use of JDAMs against any of its allies. When the Shah of Iran fell from power, US military staff in Iran were said to have sabotaged some of the US-supplied weapons. So i think US wud not take any chances in case of SA)

there used to be claims about the E-3's delivered to KSA in 1985~1986 and the F-15's , all of such claims are baseless and untrue.

we saw these E-3's and F-15's very effective against israel in 1988 when the RSAF blocked all the airspace to prevent israel air force from carrying out its threats by attacking AlSulayyil base. these E-3's and F-15's , along with other air units , had direct orders to attack israel whenever any place in KSA gets attacked and were successful in defending the Kingdom. that confrontation which occured almost 20 years ago indicates that "American weapons can't be used against israel" theory is incorrect.

 

[Waylander]

The US can manipulate the GPS network everywhere and everytime if they want.
Because of that they are not that happy with systems like GLONASS or GALILEO which they cannot control directly (But are for sure able to jam them to some degree).

 

[radiosilence]

The Pentagon was putting together a plan to block overseas GPS access selectively during military operations, and apply similar jamming to non-U.S. systems. Also, another option is to shut down the whole GPS system in the event of a national crisis.

 

[Chrom]

The US can manipulate the GPS network everywhere and everytime if they want.
Because of that they are not that happy with systems like GLONASS or GALILEO which they cannot control directly (But are for sure able to jam them to some degree).

Ya, thats why for all other countries GPS-guided ammunition was very low priority. Only now, due to request of some foreign costumers and seeing the benefits of such ammunition in low-intencity conflicts, Russia (and other countries) started to develop such ammuntion.

 

[eaf-f16]

The Israeli "SPICE" guided munitions are probably the best type of guided munitions the world for this reason. It has a stand-off range of up to 60KM, uses GPS guidance and then laser guidance in the terminal stage. This stops the guidance system from being jammed by GPS-jammers and eliminates the disadvantages of laser guided munitions performance in bad weather.

It has whole bunch of other advantages over existing systems.

Here's a link for more info: SPICE

 

[Incognito129]

Boeing has a hybrid as well. There's another company too i forgot the name, but Boeing's laser/gps hybrid is capable of hitting moving targets.

SPICE doesn't use lasers either.

 

[Aussie Digger]

The Israeli "SPICE" guided munitions are probably the best type of guided munitions the world for this reason. It has a stand-off range of up to 60KM, uses GPS guidance and then laser guidance in the terminal stage. This stops the guidance system from being jammed by GPS-jammers and eliminates the disadvantages of laser guided munitions performance in bad weather.

It has whole bunch of other advantages over existing systems.

Here's a link for more info: SPICE

I think SPICE is a good weapon, however even the Israeli's seem to prefer JDAM and Paveway II...

http://www.dsca.mil/PressReleases/36-b/2007/Israel_07-32.pdf


SPICE actually has an electro optical / imagine infra-red sensor in addition to it's GPS/INS guidance system, rather than a laser based targetting system.

A laser targetting system doesn't possess anywhere near the same standoff range...

 

[eaf-f16]

I think SPICE is a good weapon, however even the Israeli's seem to prefer JDAM and Paveway II...

http://www.dsca.mil/PressReleases/36-b/2007/Israel_07-32.pdf


SPICE actually has an electro optical / imagine infra-red sensor in addition to it's GPS/INS guidance system, rather than a laser based targetting system.

A laser targetting system doesn't possess anywhere near the same standoff range...

Messed up, sorry. My mistake.

I was saying stuff from memory. I was wondering how they got their targeting pods to designate targets from 65KM's away.

As for them preferring the JDAM and Paveway, could this possibly be about the JDAM and Paveway being cheaper not necessarily being better?

 

[Izzy1]

'As for them...'

What... EAF?

Yes, the RSAF are getting JDAM. I'm very sorry Jordan gets it before you.

 

[Khairul Alam]

metro i think you're right , UAE and Oman appear to have had the JDAM's before.



there used to be claims about the E-3's delivered to KSA in 1985~1986 and the F-15's , all of such claims are baseless and untrue.

we saw these E-3's and F-15's very effective against israel in 1988 when the RSAF blocked all the airspace to prevent israel air force from carrying out its threats by attacking AlSulayyil base. these E-3's and F-15's , along with other air units , had direct orders to attack israel whenever any place in KSA gets attacked and were successful in defending the Kingdom. that confrontation which occured almost 20 years ago indicates that "American weapons can't be used against israel" theory is incorrect.

Well SaudiArabian, i didnt know about this incident. a saudi-israeli standoff?? can u kindly describe it in detail or provide a link?

 

[swerve]

I think SPICE is a good weapon, however even the Israeli's seem to prefer JDAM and Paveway II......

A very large part of Israels defence procurement is financed by the USA. Although the USA recently changed the rules to allow more of that portion to be spent on Israeli-made weapons, there's still a requirement to spend much of in the USA. Israeli procurement decisions are all based partly on the availability of US money, what it may be used to buy, & what non-qualifiying purchases they want to make in the same period, & they have even explored the possibility of getting non-US (Israeli & German, that I know of) weapons made in the USA so as to qualify for US aid. I would therefore never assume that an Israeli purchase of a US-made weapon rather than an Israeli alternative is because they prefer the US weapon.

 

[Aussie Digger]

A very large part of Israels defence procurement is financed by the USA. Although the USA recently changed the rules to allow more of that portion to be spent on Israeli-made weapons, there's still a requirement to spend much of in the USA. Israeli procurement decisions are all based partly on the availability of US money, what it may be used to buy, & what non-qualifiying purchases they want to make in the same period, & they have even explored the possibility of getting non-US (Israeli & German, that I know of) weapons made in the USA so as to qualify for US aid. I would therefore never assume that an Israeli purchase of a US-made weapon rather than an Israeli alternative is because they prefer the US weapon.

They are fair points, however the IAF's predominant weapon dropped in Lebanon in 2006 was the JDAM and even IMI and Rafael are complaining about the lack of Israeli orders in preferrence for American supplied weapons.

Still I don't doubt that "free" weaponry is always looked upon favourably...