Chinese AWACs

[weasel1962]

Has Kopp lost it?

China’s Eyes in the Skies | The Diplomat

The recent deployment of China's first four indigenous KJ-2000 AWACS aircraft marks an important milestone in the PLA Air Force’s long march from being a ‘numbers intensive’ low technology force, to a much more modern high technology one.

Yet despite the fact that this system employs radar technology two generations ahead of that used by the US Air Force’s E-3C AWACS—generally seen as a benchmark by the rest of the world—the deployment of China’s new aircraft elicited almost no response from Washington.

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Separately, link to the APY-2 brochure
http://www.es.northropgrumman.com/solutions/awacs/assets/AWACS.pdf

 

[Todjaeger]

Has Kopp lost it?

China’s Eyes in the Skies | The Diplomat

The recent deployment of China's first four indigenous KJ-2000 AWACS aircraft marks an important milestone in the PLA Air Force’s long march from being a ‘numbers intensive’ low technology force, to a much more modern high technology one.

Yet despite the fact that this system employs radar technology two generations ahead of that used by the US Air Force’s E-3C AWACS—generally seen as a benchmark by the rest of the world—the deployment of China’s new aircraft elicited almost no response from Washington.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Separately, link to the APY-2 brochure
http://www.es.northropgrumman.com/solutions/awacs/assets/AWACS.pdf

One of the first things which comes to mind is to take anything coming from Kopp with a grain of salt. A large grain at that, unless there is reliable, independent sources confirming what he claims.

Now, the AN/APY-2 radar, even with the RSIP, is not the most advanced AEW&C radar system out there anymore, since it is still a MSA. The upgrade was designed ~15 years ago, with the original AN/APY-2 being older still, and the AN/APY-1 being a design from ~40 years ago. The US E-3 Sentry fleet itself is being given gradual upgrades, with the last upgrades expected in 2018, with fleet retirement being done by 2025.

With all that in mind, I am not terribly concerned that the PRC has debuted an indigenous AEW&C aircraft, or that it is supposed to be equipped with an AESA. Whether or not it is actually as effective as the Israeli IAI/Elta EL/M-2075 Phalcon AESA, I personally have my doubts, but the existence of 4 such aircraft is hardly a significant shift in capability. Particularly since in order for such a capability to be effective, the PRC would also need have complimentary supporting systems for comms and datalinking. An AEW is a step in the right direction, but more (much more) is needed.

Incidentally, Kopp keeps writing about C3ISR systems. Most advanced nations, with sophisticated comms and datalink systems use C4ISR, with the US operating on a C5ISR level. It does manage to leave me with the notion that Kopp only partially (at best) understands the conops behind NCW.

-Cheers

 

[justone]

I will said this no matter how old this system is this is a big step for PLAAF. Now they can have a head up view of what going on. I'm just amaze how China is rising in technology they coming up fairly good. China is behind the U.S. EU and Russia but is climbing the ladder at rapid pace. When China get the technology and I know they working on it thing will change.

 

[weasel1962]

Re:

Its not just the KJ-2000s, but the KJ-200s and the Y-8 AEWs...

Copying is a current chinese tactic. Innovating, that's the weakness at this time. Took the Japanese a whole generation to move from one to the other. Could be just a matter of time.

 

[tphuang]

Its not just the KJ-2000s, but the KJ-200s and the Y-8 AEWs...

Copying is a current chinese tactic. Innovating, that's the weakness at this time. Took the Japanese a whole generation to move from one to the other. Could be just a matter of time.

if you are talking about KJ-2000 copying Phalcon, that's a bit of a misnomer. Phalcon radar had always been nose-mounted prior to the ill fated sale to China. China started the project with Israel to mount it on A-50. They paid for the development and also received the production technology for AESA modules from Israelis. Of course, India received the fruit of that development since Israelis knew after that contract how to properly mount the radar on A-50.

That's basically how they were able to crank out KJ-2000. You can't copy something that you helped to develop.

 

[weasel1962]

Re:

China's AEW development is pretty well-established since the Tupolev KJ-1.

Nevertheless, China wasn't the first to come up with a top-mounted radar, neither does it apply to the balance beam design nor the helo AEW.

I'm not so much referring to the radar itself which was the object of the Clinton veto, as to the concept of AEW and the design. The top-mounted AWACs radar for the Il-76 is not exactly a new design (see A-50 mainstay).

How much of the inputs came from Russia to Israel or the Chinese (whether via Israel or direct) is not public knowledge but looking at the mainstays, the chinese design is not exactly that much different from the russki design, isn't it? Probably as much as the J-11B is a "chinese" aircraft....

The Phalcon is not just a nose-mounted design but relies on its conformal arrays (unlike the nimrods) and a rear-facing radar. In fact, the conformal design has its flaw in the perception that the forward/rear radar is less effective than the conformal arrays.

I think the main point I am making is that China's military development is very much focussed on obtaining catch-up capabilities. Even the new ASBM isn't exactly a new concept.