Australian Govt: offered B52's?
- Thread starter Supe
- Start date
Pursuit Curve
New Member
That would be the first time that I have heard that one. Would Australia want to operate and maintain such a monster? If anyone thinks the operating and fuel cost of F22 and F35 are high, try maintaining a 50 year old airframe! If it is true, that would be the first time a B 52 system would be sold outside of the USA.
I highly doubt the validity of this info though.
I highly doubt the validity of this info though.
A
Aussie Digger
Guest
You haven't been reading DB's hypotheticals have you??? I could see Australia operating some B-1B's at an absolute pinch if our strateguic situation deteriorated massively, our budget and available manpower went through the roof, and a massive bombing capability was required, but B-52's? Can't see any reason for them whatsoever in Australian service.
We're trying desperately hard to get rid of our 30 year old aircraft. Why would we want 50 year old ones????
We're trying desperately hard to get rid of our 30 year old aircraft. Why would we want 50 year old ones????
Pursuit Curve
New Member
Well, I have to say that for the time being 30 year old F 111 and 25 year old F 18's are adequate for standoff (F 111) or Air defense (F-18), keep in mind the last time our CF 18's were involved in direct action (The air campaign over Yugoslavia) were ok but still lacking essential ECM self protection at that time.
I can just imagine if Canada was offered the B 52, just refeuling one of those monsters and doing post flight on them...it makes me shake my head in disbelief!
I can just imagine if Canada was offered the B 52, just refeuling one of those monsters and doing post flight on them...it makes me shake my head in disbelief!
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #6
Guilty. But I'm pretty sure it wasn't a DB 'hypothetical' that referred to an offer of B-52's though. I was hoping I'd not have to wade through that steaming pile of poo forum to find out just who posted it.Aussie Digger said:
I created this thread because I am sceptical of such an offer pretty much for the reasons you and Pursuit Curve mentioned. That said, stranger things have happened....
Pursuit Curve
New Member
Could the quote maybe referring to the B 52's being based and flow from Australia by USAF Crews perhaps? And for that matter B 1 bombers as well?
A
Aussie Digger
Guest
For an exercise maybe. Not on a permanent basis. The last time we had permanent US forces based in Brisbane Australia, a "battle" erupted...Pursuit Curve said:
Pursuit Curve
New Member
Aussie, Surely your not referring to the Second World War are you? Hey, we had a U2 spy plane do an emergency landing on a frozen lake in my home province of Saskatchewan back in the early sixties or late fifties, I do not recall if the pilot was entertained by the locals or chased with shotguns and pitchforks until the mounties arrived! isn't it amazing what one can dig up on the internet? I think someone misread a post regarding B 52's for Australia. Yeah, TDY definitely, but permanent basing?? I know they did that in teh UK for years, but Australia! Unless they are wanting to open a new front against some "Terrorists" in SEA, I can't imagine the reason.
I heard on and off again the past few year's that Australia would be offered a long range bomber by the USAF to replace its ageing F-111 fleet. The first time I heard this rumor was when 33 B-1's were retired early in 2001. This rumor has just moved to another step with the USAF recently announcing that they plan to cut back the fleet of B-52's to around 60 aircraft to fund further upgrades. While it would be interesting for the RAAF to gain long range bombers, but they have to much money tied up in procurements of the JSF and maybe the C-17A. Either way the B-1B or B-52H would be both very expensive aircraft to operate and I don't think the new long range abilities could stand the horrible cost of operating those aircraft.
A
Aussie Digger
Guest
Exactly. In our circumstances, the money would be better off going on additional tanker/transports, standoff weapons for RAAF AND RAN, and beefing up logistical support (ie: ordnance inventories etc) for our existing forces.LancerMc said:
Once we get our fully upgraded Bugs and AP-3C's, tankers, AWACS, Global Hawks and standoff weapons/JDAM's, we'll have a very capable air combat capability. This will be further improved when the JSF's arrive. If more combat capability is required, the money (if it were available) should be put into additional platforms (a figure of 120 JSF's is being bandied about as a real possibility for RAAF). Additional platforms such as Tanker/transport aircraft and AWACS would be of more benefit to RAAF than existing assets and a new (or rather old) bomber fleet.
Additional acquisitions such as TacTom and F-35B's to operate from our upcoming LPD's, would massively boost our combat capability and would likely be cheaper than maintaining the long range bomber fleet, if money were available to pursue additional air combat/strike capabilities.
Also a medium/long range SAM system to protect Australia and it's ground forces from air/cruise missile attack would also be nice to have, if more money were available...
U.S., Australian forces team up in realistic training
by Capt. Yvonne Levardi
Kenney Headquarters Public Affairs
4/11/2006 - HICKAM AIR FORCE BASE, Hawaii (AFPN) -- Three Air Force B-1 Lancers recently flew more than 7,000 miles and 16 hours to participate in the Royal Australian Air Force’s Aces South exercise, providing realistic training for the coalition partners.
“It was a tremendous success for all parties,” said Lt. Col. Thomas Curran, commander of the 34th Expeditionary Bomb Squadron. “We got very positive feedback from the host unit and met all our training objectives.”
The colonel’s assessment was echoed by Capt. Matt Brooks, a 34th EBS assistant director of operations.
“Every mission, 34th EBS B-1s were ‘on time, on target’ which was important to the success of our mission and the overall training objectives of the Australian forces,” Captain Brooks said.
The Aces South exercise involved large-force employment for the RAAF Weapon School. The B-1s each flew one sortie as simulated Red Air bombers conducting anti-ship strikes off the southeast Australian coast during the three-day exercise, Colonel Curran said. Blue Air forces consisted of Australian F/A-18 Hornets and F-111 Aardvarks flown by the weapon school students.
“We flew with a variety of RAAF fighters, including the F/A-18s, F-111s and Hawks,” Colonel Curran said. “The training closely replicates the types of mission profiles we fly in support of operations Enduring Freedom and Iraqi Freedom."
The “Green Lightning” missions the B-1s flew were more than 16-hour round-robin missions from Andersen Air Force Base, Guam, to Australia. KC-135 Stratotankers from Wisconsin and Mississippi Air National Guard units refueled the bombers in-flight.
For many of the new aircrew, this was their first experience flying 16-hour plus missions, Colonel Curran said.
“It was also a chance to integrate with dedicated air-to-air escorts and other support assets, while going against a very capable adversary,” Colonel Curran said. “This training is priceless for us.”
“The B-1 aviators who flew the missions brought back a wealth of lessons learned and information that we can use to make ourselves a better combat unit and integrate better in the future with our allies,” Captain Brooks said.
Having B-1s in their exercise will help improve training and experience for the RAAF flyers as well, said Wing Commander Chris Huet, Commanding Officer of the No. 2 Operational Conversion Unit, RAAF.
“Our fighter combat instructors are the RAAF equivalent of Air Force weapons instructors and the training we give them is the most advanced we give any of our operators,” he said.
“As we are a small force, any additional aircraft can add to the realism and complexity of the scenarios. The B-1 in particular is an aircraft type distinctly different to those we currently operate. It will present a different problem for our aircrew and fighter controllers to solve,” Wing Commander Huet said.
The RAAF fighter and strike aircraft train with USAF units about two to four times per year, Wing Commander Huet said. Two of the most significant exercises they participate in are Red Flag at Nellis Air Force Base, Nev., and Pitch Black and Talisman Saber in Australia. This was the first time the B-1s had participated in a RAAF exercise in Australian territory.
The RAAF weapon school benefits from combined training in many ways, Wing Commander Huet said. They can measure performance against experienced Air Force units to give them a good idea of their capability. Also, the aircrew are exposed to different aircraft and tactics, making training more realistic.
“We are exposed to slightly different ways of doing things and are able to learn from our friends how better to do our job,” he said. “Finally, we are able to create and maintain relationships that help us to work side by side with our allies in operations around the world.”
“I think the perspective we gained and the relationships we fostered will be a major benefit to any future operations with the Australian forces,” Captain Brooks said. “In the end, we all walked away from the exercise with some great lessons learned that will make us all better combat aviators.”
http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?storyID=123018919
The countries are working together as far as practicing for an attack goes as witnessed in this article. As for Australia actually buying any type of long range heavy bomber, there wouldn't be any need for it as the theatre's that they (Australia) operate in already have a strong US bomber presence. I think that I can confidently say that the US would be there for their ally Australia should it be necessary.
Attila
by Capt. Yvonne Levardi
Kenney Headquarters Public Affairs
4/11/2006 - HICKAM AIR FORCE BASE, Hawaii (AFPN) -- Three Air Force B-1 Lancers recently flew more than 7,000 miles and 16 hours to participate in the Royal Australian Air Force’s Aces South exercise, providing realistic training for the coalition partners.
“It was a tremendous success for all parties,” said Lt. Col. Thomas Curran, commander of the 34th Expeditionary Bomb Squadron. “We got very positive feedback from the host unit and met all our training objectives.”
The colonel’s assessment was echoed by Capt. Matt Brooks, a 34th EBS assistant director of operations.
“Every mission, 34th EBS B-1s were ‘on time, on target’ which was important to the success of our mission and the overall training objectives of the Australian forces,” Captain Brooks said.
The Aces South exercise involved large-force employment for the RAAF Weapon School. The B-1s each flew one sortie as simulated Red Air bombers conducting anti-ship strikes off the southeast Australian coast during the three-day exercise, Colonel Curran said. Blue Air forces consisted of Australian F/A-18 Hornets and F-111 Aardvarks flown by the weapon school students.
“We flew with a variety of RAAF fighters, including the F/A-18s, F-111s and Hawks,” Colonel Curran said. “The training closely replicates the types of mission profiles we fly in support of operations Enduring Freedom and Iraqi Freedom."
The “Green Lightning” missions the B-1s flew were more than 16-hour round-robin missions from Andersen Air Force Base, Guam, to Australia. KC-135 Stratotankers from Wisconsin and Mississippi Air National Guard units refueled the bombers in-flight.
For many of the new aircrew, this was their first experience flying 16-hour plus missions, Colonel Curran said.
“It was also a chance to integrate with dedicated air-to-air escorts and other support assets, while going against a very capable adversary,” Colonel Curran said. “This training is priceless for us.”
“The B-1 aviators who flew the missions brought back a wealth of lessons learned and information that we can use to make ourselves a better combat unit and integrate better in the future with our allies,” Captain Brooks said.
Having B-1s in their exercise will help improve training and experience for the RAAF flyers as well, said Wing Commander Chris Huet, Commanding Officer of the No. 2 Operational Conversion Unit, RAAF.
“Our fighter combat instructors are the RAAF equivalent of Air Force weapons instructors and the training we give them is the most advanced we give any of our operators,” he said.
“As we are a small force, any additional aircraft can add to the realism and complexity of the scenarios. The B-1 in particular is an aircraft type distinctly different to those we currently operate. It will present a different problem for our aircrew and fighter controllers to solve,” Wing Commander Huet said.
The RAAF fighter and strike aircraft train with USAF units about two to four times per year, Wing Commander Huet said. Two of the most significant exercises they participate in are Red Flag at Nellis Air Force Base, Nev., and Pitch Black and Talisman Saber in Australia. This was the first time the B-1s had participated in a RAAF exercise in Australian territory.
The RAAF weapon school benefits from combined training in many ways, Wing Commander Huet said. They can measure performance against experienced Air Force units to give them a good idea of their capability. Also, the aircrew are exposed to different aircraft and tactics, making training more realistic.
“We are exposed to slightly different ways of doing things and are able to learn from our friends how better to do our job,” he said. “Finally, we are able to create and maintain relationships that help us to work side by side with our allies in operations around the world.”
“I think the perspective we gained and the relationships we fostered will be a major benefit to any future operations with the Australian forces,” Captain Brooks said. “In the end, we all walked away from the exercise with some great lessons learned that will make us all better combat aviators.”
http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?storyID=123018919
The countries are working together as far as practicing for an attack goes as witnessed in this article. As for Australia actually buying any type of long range heavy bomber, there wouldn't be any need for it as the theatre's that they (Australia) operate in already have a strong US bomber presence. I think that I can confidently say that the US would be there for their ally Australia should it be necessary.
Attila
calvinb1nav
New Member
The Aussies WERE offered B-1s
The Aussies(and the Brits) were offered some of the B-1s that went to AMARC at Davis-Monathan AFB. They both turned the offer down as unaffordable. The person who told me this was the head of Boeing's B-1 division. There was an article published about this a couple of years ago in Aviation Week IIRC.
PBAR
B-1B IWSO
The Aussies(and the Brits) were offered some of the B-1s that went to AMARC at Davis-Monathan AFB. They both turned the offer down as unaffordable. The person who told me this was the head of Boeing's B-1 division. There was an article published about this a couple of years ago in Aviation Week IIRC.
PBAR
B-1B IWSO
Michael RVR
New Member
I can certainly remember reading about that one somewhere. IIRC they would have needed some work done on them as well, and as calvin said it was put down as too expensive.calvinb1nav said: