Go Back   DefenceTalk Forum - Military & Defense Forums > Global Defense & Military > Air Force & Aviation

Defense News
Land, Air & Naval Forces






Military Photos
Latest Military Pictures
Defense Reports
Aerospace & Defence


Argentina Air Force News and Discussion

This is a discussion on Argentina Air Force News and Discussion within the Air Force & Aviation forum, part of the Global Defense & Military category; Originally Posted by Todjaeger Do you mean the T-38 trainer version? Or are you talking about the F-5's in US ...


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread
Old May 17th, 2016   #46
Defense Aficionado
Lieutenant General
StingrayOZ's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Sydney
Posts: 2,748
Threads:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Todjaeger View Post
Do you mean the T-38 trainer version? Or are you talking about the F-5's in US service for DACT purposes? AFAIK the US only used F-5's in a combat role during Vietnam. After Vietnam, US F-5's served in various training roles.
The ones used for DACT. While not a front line asset, doesn't mean that the US wants to give them away. Given the inability to get fighters from the Russians, the Chinese, the Israelis, the french etc I would find it surprising if they were lifted out of US service and gifted to a user who never operated F-5's.
StingrayOZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 21st, 2016   #47
Junior Member
Private First Class
No Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 73
Threads:
More evidence - IMO - that the new Government are more interested in their armed forces than the previous. One of the key issues with Argentina in general is the huge amount going onto personnel and very little in acquisition and sustainment. There's plans afoot to change that.

Argentina may reorganise air force, other units | IHS Jane's 360
Vulcan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 21st, 2016   #48
Super Moderator
General
swerve's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Reading, Berkshire
Posts: 6,674
Threads:
The amount going into personnel isn't huge. It's a lot less than it used to be. The problem is that everything else has been cut back to almost nothing, because spending has been cut so much that there's nothing left after personnel have been paid.

The new government doesn't seem to have any plans for a major re-armament programme, but it is making moves to restore basic capabilities that have been lost, such as the ability to police national airspace.
swerve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 22nd, 2016   #49
Junior Member
Private First Class
No Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 73
Threads:
Quote:
Originally Posted by swerve View Post
The amount going into personnel isn't huge. It's a lot less than it used to be. The problem is that everything else has been cut back to almost nothing, because spending has been cut so much that there's nothing left after personnel have been paid.

The new government doesn't seem to have any plans for a major re-armament programme, but it is making moves to restore basic capabilities that have been lost, such as the ability to police national airspace.
I would agree which - to me - is at least more constructive than the majority of the last lot in office.

In the last ~6 months (off the top of my head) from the Government's formation, in terms of procurement they are attempting
  • F-5's from the US (as unlikely as that may be)
  • Presumably still working on Israeli Kfir's but the F-5 attempt indicates this isn't going well
  • Procurement of 3 ex-MN A69 Corvettes
  • Beginning construction of more OPVs
  • Overhaul of FAdeA both in terms of personnel and programs as well as instigating criminal investigation proceedings against their executives
  • Overhaul of Air Force structure
  • 2 more L-band radars to counter low flying narcotics traffickers
  • New medium helicopters for the Coast Guard (Super Puma)
  • 3rd micro satellite to be completed
  • Re-engine A-4 fleet
  • New Chief of Staff and heads of the Army/Air Force/Navy appointed

Much of it is - as you say - getting back to the most basic of military capability, however I find it too be an impressive level of effort compared next to the clowns that were there before.
Vulcan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 13th, 2016   #50
Moderator
General
ngatimozart's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Posts: 4,202
Threads:
The Argentine Air Force is apparently evaluating the KAI FA50 light weight fighter. The real question is do they have the cash to pay for them?
________________
"There is one immutable truth we cannot prevent; war is coming, we just don’t know when or where." Brigadier Andrew Harrison DSO MBE
ngatimozart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 14th, 2016   #51
Junior Member
Private First Class
No Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 73
Threads:
They've got the cash, they've just had a horrific system in place to spend it which was biased against the armed forces. I'm pretty positive about how their economy will change under the new President, he's backed by the business community and wants to increase global investment rather than the previous President's apparently wish to ostracise the country.

Can't help but feel why they'd go for FA50's though, it's not cheap enough for low intensity internal work (particularly with the Pampa they could build nationally) and it's not high enough performance to be the basis of their air force.
Vulcan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 14th, 2016   #52
Defense Enthusiast
Corporal
No Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 131
Threads:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vulcan View Post
They've got the cash, they've just had a horrific system in place to spend it which was biased against the armed forces. I'm pretty positive about how their economy will change under the new President, he's backed by the business community and wants to increase global investment rather than the previous President's apparently wish to ostracise the country.

Can't help but feel why they'd go for FA50's though, it's not cheap enough for low intensity internal work (particularly with the Pampa they could build nationally) and it's not high enough performance to be the basis of their air force.
I thought decades of neglect has caused Argentina's aviation industry to lose the ability to make IA-63 Pampa? There was a promised revitalization several years ago in which the government is supposed to inject millions of dollars into FMA as part of a new order of Pampa, but then there is no follow-up. No actual injection of cash. No actual production of Pampa.

My information may be outdated since I don't speak Spanish. If anyone can give me an update on the status of the third batch of Pampa, please do and thanks.

Anyway, if there is no new Pampa then it makes sense for Argentina to look at foreign aircrafts.
tonnyc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 14th, 2016   #53
Defense Professional / Analyst
General
Waylander's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Kiel, Schleswig-Holstein
Posts: 4,940
Threads:
They could buy Super Tucanos from Brazil even if it goes against their dignity. With big enough numbers partial build or assembling could be done in Argentina, bringing their air industry a bit back on track and at least ease on the maintenance front.

This would leave more money for the high performance part of the air force combat requirements. Probably looking for China or Sweden may be advisable.
Waylander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 14th, 2016   #54
Junior Member
Private First Class
No Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 73
Threads:
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonnyc View Post
I thought decades of neglect has caused Argentina's aviation industry to lose the ability to make IA-63 Pampa? There was a promised revitalization several years ago in which the government is supposed to inject millions of dollars into FMA as part of a new order of Pampa, but then there is no follow-up. No actual injection of cash. No actual production of Pampa.

...

Anyway, if there is no new Pampa then it makes sense for Argentina to look at foreign aircrafts.
FAdeA's first serial production IA-63 Pampa III takes flight | IHS Jane's 360
Argentina's FAdeA 'mulls major changes' | IHS Jane's 360
FAdeA hopes to accelerate, increase work | IHS Jane's 360

Not new production, but modernisation of 40 aircraft to the Pampa III standard for LIFT seems to be the plan. It may not be a large stretch to restart production potentially, but maybe it is, they don't seem to have a whole lot going on at the minute.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Waylander View Post
They could buy Super Tucanos from Brazil even if it goes against their dignity. With big enough numbers partial build or assembling could be done in Argentina, bringing their air industry a bit back on track and at least ease on the maintenance front.

This would leave more money for the high performance part of the air force combat requirements. Probably looking for China or Sweden may be advisable.
Doesn't seem to be as much of a thing anymore, a while ago they signed a letter of intent for 24 Gripen to be co-produced by the 2 countries or words to that effect, all surrounded with the fluffy words of geopolitics.

As for the latter if the plan to improve relations with the UK pays off then they may relent in arms trade legislation with the country. How practical that is in reality I don't know, but it may be theoretically possible in the current political climate. Apparently their air force didn't like the JF-17 as is and wanted Western avionics, however that'd negate one of the main reasons of buying it; cost.

If the French/Israeli's don't pull something off i'll be astonished.
Vulcan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 14th, 2016   #55
Super Moderator
General
swerve's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Reading, Berkshire
Posts: 6,674
Threads:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waylander View Post
This would leave more money for the high performance part of the air force combat requirements. Probably looking for China or Sweden may be advisable.
Sweden requires the agreement of the UK even for JAS39C/D, because of British-made parts which it would not be practical to replace. That is very unlikely to be given. It would require a commitment by the Argentinean government which is probably politically impossible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vulcan View Post
Doesn't seem to be as much of a thing anymore, a while ago they signed a letter of intent for 24 Gripen to be co-produced by the 2 countries or words to that effect, all surrounded with the fluffy words of geopolitics.
That was a joke. A pure political gesture. I doubt very much that Mrs Kirchner had any intention of providing the money to pay for it, & it was obviously impossible for Embraer to fulfil its side of the proposed deal. What use would an aircraft with no radar be? Saab wasn't even asked about the possibility of removing British content, so one can see that it wasn't serious.
swerve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 14th, 2016   #56
Junior Member
Private First Class
No Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 73
Threads:
Quote:
Originally Posted by swerve View Post

That was a joke. A pure political gesture. I doubt very much that Mrs Kirchner had any intention of providing the money to pay for it, & it was obviously impossible for Embraer to fulfil its side of the proposed deal. What use would an aircraft with no radar be? Saab wasn't even asked about the possibility of removing British content, so one can see that it wasn't serious.
It wasn't brought up to reflect an actual capability, I brought it up because Waylander suggested if they bought Super Tucano's from Brazil it would be "against their dignity" and that, as you rightly say is a pure political gesture, it did come along with a backdrop of greater cooperation between the two countries. So the historical rivalry between the two does not exist at the same level as it once does.
Vulcan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 14th, 2016   #57
Defense Enthusiast
Chief Warrant Officer
No Avatar
Join Date: May 2014
Location: London
Posts: 407
Threads:
Quote:
Originally Posted by swerve View Post
That is very unlikely to be given. It would require a commitment by the Argentinean government which is probably politically impossible...
Well, things have changed very quickly as relations today have moved fwd toward they stood ~1999

Flights direct from Argentina will recommence and Sir Alan Duncan announced the relationship is 'open for business'

Smart cookie this Macri.. Has finally settled the bond holdout and it would seem the recent surge for 'high yield' EM markets is a double plus - providing countries like Argentina (reformist) with fresh life and plenty of fiscal movement.

O&G will open up soon, with JV (Norwegian type) partnership
Nick underscore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 14th, 2016   #58
Defense Professional / Analyst
General
Waylander's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Kiel, Schleswig-Holstein
Posts: 4,940
Threads:
But it is one thing to procure a foreign design together. But procuring a plane from a neighbour while some time ago you were abke build a similar plane by yourself is another level...
Waylander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 15th, 2016   #59
Junior Member
Private First Class
No Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 73
Threads:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waylander View Post
But it is one thing to procure a foreign design together. But procuring a plane from a neighbour while some time ago you were abke build a similar plane by yourself is another level...
Might you be thinking of the Pucara? That's closer to the Super Tucano than the Pampa (prop rather than jet propulsion).

Their new President seems to be better at geopolitics than CFK, then again that's not a particularly difficult record to beat!
Vulcan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 15th, 2016   #60
Super Moderator
General
swerve's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Reading, Berkshire
Posts: 6,674
Threads:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick underscore View Post
Well, things have changed very quickly as relations today have moved fwd toward they stood ~1999

Flights direct from Argentina will recommence and Sir Alan Duncan announced the relationship is 'open for business'

Smart cookie this Macri.. Has finally settled the bond holdout and it would seem the recent surge for 'high yield' EM markets is a double plus - providing countries like Argentina (reformist) with fresh life and plenty of fiscal movement.

O&G will open up soon, with JV (Norwegian type) partnership
Yes, & all that is good. But I don't expect sales of weapons - particularly potentially game-changing weapons - to be allowed any time soon.
swerve is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:03 AM.