$400 million for a HELICOPTER!?!

[Freeman]

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5js5lwcxZ1ooD6IBBBK1RFu-QqeWQD96HKL0O0

McCain questions Obama about helicopter at summit

By DONNA BORAK – 1 hour ago
WASHINGTON (AP) — President Barack Obama never had a helicopter, which he says might explain why he's perfectly happy with the current White House fleet and doesn't need a more costly one. At the conclusion of a fiscal summit Monday, Obama faced questions from Republican and Democratic lawmakers, including his former presidential rival, Sen. John McCain.
McCain bemoaned cost overruns in military procurement. The new fleet of 28 Marine One helicopters being built by Lockheed Martin Corp. — now over budget at $11.2 billion — will cost more than Air Force One.
Obama said the helicopter he has now seems adequate, adding that he never had a helicopter before and "maybe I've been deprived and I didn't know it."
Obama said he has already talked to Defense Secretary Robert Gates about reviewing the program and its ballooning costs.
"It is an example of the procurement process gone amok, and we're going to have to fix it," Obama said.
The Navy — which is in charge of overseeing the helicopter program — reported to Congress in January that its price tag had nearly doubled. That notification triggered a formal process mandating the program be re-certified as a national security requirement by senior Pentagon leadership.
The Navy waited nearly a year before formally disclosing the information to lawmakers as it sought to find ways to keep the program within budget. Those efforts failed.
Gates already has warned of tough cuts in the upcoming fiscal 2010 budget as the Pentagon faces the pressure of paying for two wars during a recession.
Lockheed Martin spokesman Troy Scully said in a statement, "We are committed to the program's success and are confident we can deliver the required number of helicopters compliant with the specifications that emerge from the ongoing review."
A Navy spokesman could not be immediately reached for comment Monday evening.
The helicopter, which will be outfitted with communications equipment, anti-missile defenses and hardened hulls, is dubbed Marine One whenever the president is on board. The aircraft is expected to be similar to Air Force One, unlike the 30-year-old helicopters they would replace.
Shares of Bethesda, Md.-based Lockheed Martin fell $3.88, or 5 percent, to $73.87 Monday.
AP Business Writer Stephen Manning contributed to this report.

My question for you is this: what in the name of GOD could justify this price tag? For comparison, the cost of an Apache Longbow is about $16,000,000 per unit. Please someone tell me I'm making some sort of glaring, noobish miscalculation.

 

[Dzirhan]

The price tag could also include the support, maintainence and training package. The other thing is that being the presidential helicopter, this will be equipped with more than what the average helicopter carries as mentioned in the story and everything will likely be the latest and state of the art which will cost more paticularly in the communications, sensors and protection systems, the harden hull mentioned alone indicates that either some level of protective armor has been added or the hull will be made out of a differant type of material, either way that is going to cost too. It's hard to tell whether the cost overrun is justified unless the details are given as to what exactly caused this

 

[Freeman]

The price tag could also include the support, maintainence and training package.

True. If the price includes lifetime (read: 30+ years) support, mainteance, and training, then that might make up for some of the cost.

The other thing is that being the presidential helicopter, this will be equipped with more than what the average helicopter carries as mentioned in the story and everything will likely be the latest and state of the art which will cost more paticularly in the communications, sensors and protection systems, the harden hull mentioned alone indicates that either some level of protective armor has been added or the hull will be made out of a differant type of material, either way that is going to cost too.

As far as the avionics, sensors, countermeasures, etc. are concerned, I don't see how that could bring the price to more than three times the cost of an F-22 Raptor. As for the hardened hull, it'd better be made out of solid friggin' gold.

It's hard to tell whether the cost overrun is justified unless the details are given as to what exactly caused this

Agreed. Although I'd find it difficult to justify the initial projected cost, considering this is, essentially, a transport helicopter.

 

[Dzirhan]

As far as the avionics, sensors, countermeasures, etc. are concerned, I don't see how that could bring the price to more than three times the cost of an F-22 Raptor. As for the hardened hull, it'd better be made out of solid friggin' gold.

Agreed. Although I'd find it difficult to justify the initial projected cost, considering this is, essentially, a transport helicopter.

Well, the laser that blows missiles out of the sky might be some of the cost , in all seriousness though, I do agree there's probably a significant part of the cost overrun that may be unjustified though again it's always hard to tell minus the details, given that Marine One probably needs to have the capability to allow the President to communicate and receive info securely to and from US govt networks wherever and in whatever conditions the helo is flying, that alone would cost a signifcant amount of money and should also add small specialized production runs tend to add to the cost even though the US-101 (Marine One) is based on the EH-101, there are actually composites and metals worth more than their weight in gold that are probably used in the hull (know you're joking on the made of gold part). For all we know, the bird could be hardened to ride out a nuclear strike .Some of the cost overruns could also be due to the integration and testing works concerned, most of the systems used in Marine One are likely to be largely never before installed on a helo before or one of a kind, first time use so that gives the problem of figuring out how to install the systems properly and making sure it works well and doesn't interfere with everything else on the helo.

 

[dragonfire]

Whatever it is, the avg cost of the heli at 400 Mil USD a piece is way way way too much, classic example of the def equipment devevelopment companies in collusion with defence equipement procurement professional overcharging for the stuff, would love to see a component by component cost on the heli

 

[rjmaz1]

The 400million pays for the development cost.

If only 28 F-22 fighter jets were built they would have cost 1300 million each.

Luckily these helicopters will cost far far less than 400 million.

Though these helicopters would no doubt have some very advanced technology in them that will be reused in future helicopters so the development cost may very well be spread across thousands of helicopters.

 

[FluffyThoughts]

TEXT DELETED.
The worlds first "glass-helicopter",

Some of the most advanced avionics,

Three-engines, of which only one is required to coast,

It's not a hybrid Sikorsky,

HMG's investment in best-of-breed, and

This is the 2nd overly political post of yours I had to edit, if any of the mods have to edit a 3rd you'll be banned for a couple weeks.

 

[Tony Williams]

I think that the helo is being unfairly blamed here. The EH-101 is in service in some numbers in several countries, and it only costs a tiny fraction of the cost of the proposed Presidential helos. The difference is entirely in the changes wanted to adapt it for Presidential use, which would apply to any chosen helo.

I understand that the first five helos are already being made, but these have very little of the special adaptations (especially communications) installed so are much cheaper. If they want to replace the current helos at a lower cost, the only way is to cut the specified adaptations to something a lot less ambitious - changing the type of helo used will have very little effect.

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website

 

[Sea Toby]

Face it, the press is not a friend of the military establishment, always ignoring and confusing military principles. Development costs are not fly away costs, any aircraft with similar technical toys and black boxes would cost as much, and the government is not buying one aircraft, several will be built. The press did the same false story with the new Air Force One jumbo jet as well.