NZDF General discussion thread

[Rob c]

My own view is that the government would like to join AUKUS, if the can get away with it with the least political damage. The reason being that they can then be involved in a defence structure without having to actually spend any money on our armed forces, which are hopelessly underfunded. They can say that they are pro defence without doing anything about our own defence.

 

[John Fedup]

My own view is that the government would like to join AUKUS, if the can get away with it with the least political damage. The reason being that they can then be involved in a defence structure without having to actually spend any money on our armed forces, which are hopelessly underfunded. They can say that they are pro defence without doing anything about our own defence.

Given the recent history of NZ and Canada defence investment I doubt either country would be particularly welcomed. Both countries are lucky to remain in the 5eye club.

 

[recce.k1]

More signals that change is coming. Foreign Minister Winston Peters delivers an address to the NZ Institute of International Affairs, covering foreign policy, security and AUKUS P2 (and gives a robust smack down to the agenda driven uninformed critics of AUKUS P2).

Whist defence is not the Foreign Minister's primary domain he did make an "interesting" comment that:

"New Zealand’s long history of parsimony when it comes to defence cannot hold if we wish to continue garnering respect from, and influence on, others".

I won't bother linking to MSM articles on his speech only because they cannot fully emphasise the points and detail he covered. So for those that are interested here is his speech.

Speech to New Zealand Institute of International Affairs, Parliament – Annual Lecture: Challenges and Opportunities

Good evening –

www.beehive.govt.nz

 

[pea032]

"The Pacific region’s strategic environment is not benign, far from it."

Feels like a bit of a dig there, who could have seen that coming in 2001 apart from everyone who opposed scrapping the ACF

 

[Teal]

'Not good enough': Defence Force staff left stranded in Antarctica for a month Stuff

Latest negative news on the NZDF.
Sadely we all know RTNZ dates and times are a moving feast from all overseas missions, this is not new , noting the location and the means of transport its no surprise. My only thought is if NZ wants to take activities on the ice seriously , we need to aquire a platform that can conduct a return trip on one tank , C2 would be good , dreaming i know.

 

[recce.k1]

we need to aquire a platform that can conduct a return trip on one tank , C2 would be good , dreaming i know.

KC-46 may also be a worthy contender? (It has been suggested here before by a couple of the mods, with Antarctic ops in mind).

(Acquire a long range true multi-role transport/tanker and enabler and lookee-here it also does VIP .... oops we weren't thinking of ourselves say the pollies, honest guv)!

 

[Teal]

KC-46 may also be a worthy contender? (It has been suggested here before by a couple of the mods, with Antarctic ops in mind).

(Acquire a long range true multi-role transport/tanker and enabler and lookee-here it also does VIP .... oops we weren't thinking of ourselves say the pollies, honest guv)!

I agree, dream option is C2 , the KC46 would be a great 757 replacement , the variety of fit outs, a cargo door plus being a comms link/node and then a tanker. Air NZ have a wealth of experience too.
The KC30 is just to big for little old NZ

 

[RegR]

'Not good enough': Defence Force staff left stranded in Antarctica for a month Stuff

Latest negative news on the NZDF.
Sadely we all know RTNZ dates and times are a moving feast from all overseas missions, this is not new , noting the location and the means of transport its no surprise. My only thought is if NZ wants to take activities on the ice seriously , we need to aquire a platform that can conduct a return trip on one tank , C2 would be good , dreaming i know.

Not really sure range is a game changer especially if it is just to suit Antarctica. Either way a full tankload still does not change the weather so no point flying all the way down there just to turn around vs half way. It would be different I guess if we didn't have people, technology and infrastructure already down there to make the D on "weather" or not to land beforehand. If it was such an issue the US would only use C-17, but even they use C-130 and they still have the same issues, or should I say consideration.

A KC46 would surely have the same cut off date as the 757, ie earlier, and I doubt it's range related.

I also think whoever this person who was in "contact" is being alittle precious and should be more than well aware before they left of possible delays on any deployment, but Antarctica especially as it is very much weather dependant. Along with the supposed information updates which I find again alittle off as what did he expect, a direct line to the pilots?

You can actually follow the comings and goings of these particular aircraft on the Canterbury planespotters page and they were almost routinely turning back, C-17s included, so delays in flights are actually not as uncommon as people seem to think and they do not just become "reliable" for aero-medical events and breakdown every other time, although breakdowns are still a factor of life. Infact that C-17 mentioned in the article WAS the broken down aircraft and they had to wait for a part which took a few days and the RNZAF C130 went in the meantime (for the aero) as the US hercs had already left.

Point is I just don't think we need to base our military aircraft on essentially a civilian mission as IMO they are there to support, which is nice to have but this is why we have a joint support operation with the US and share resources not essentially duplicate them.

 

[Rob c]

oint is I just don't think we need to base our military aircraft on essentially a civilian mission as IMO they are there to support, which is nice to have but this is why we have a joint support operation with the US and share resources not essentially duplicate them.

Totally agree with this point, However the aircraft mentioned (C2-KC 46) would definitely add to our ability to position and support army operations in our area and would boost our logistical abilities overall.
As a side note has anyone seen the range payload of our new C130Js as fitted with under wing tanks? As it appears that we may be the first to have them.

 

[John Fedup]

Totally agree with this point, However the aircraft mentioned (C2-KC 46) would definitely add to our ability to position and support army operations in our area and would boost our logistical abilities overall.
As a side note has anyone seen the range payload of our new C130Js as fitted with under wing tanks? As it appears that we may be the first to have them.

This article link claims an extra 4 hours of flying but no load specs are mentioned so range can only be guessed at but 1,000-1200 miles minimum seems reasonable.

USAF Demos Max Endurance Flight of Super Hercules With External Fuel Tanks

The US Air Force has completed a max endurance flight test of a C-130J military transport aircraft equipped with external fuel tanks.

www.thedefensepost.com

 

[recce.k1]

RAAF also have (or certainly have been trialing) external fuel tanks, increasing the fuel capacity from 19t to 27t according to AF-T.

RAAF’s C-130J Hercules to conduct flight tests using external fuel tanks

The RAAF is set to carry out trials of the external fuel tanks on two of its military C-130J Hercules military transport aircraft over the next one year.

www.airforce-technology.com

 

[Rob c]

If these are the same tanks as fitted to the H I remember installing them after a servicing at base Auckland in the late 1960's and they were marked as a bit over 1300 US gallons each. If my memory is any good
It was a hell of a job due to the extreme torque settings for the attachment bolts. The new sockets supplied di not hack it and split, we reverted to gnarly old King Dicks to complete the job, they did not break.

 

[Hawkeye69]

I see our PM on Sky News Australia talking about this and that and he brought up how NZDF will now be working for commonality of platforms with Australia, so one wonders when the MH-60R Seahawk will get the green light. I see a big push for the Wildcat but it goes against the commonality with Australia and it’s got the European factor and we have had great success with proven US products, the Texan, P-8A and C-130J as examples and I am sure that will be well considered even if the cost makes a few faint feeling.

 

[recce.k1]

Finance Minister interviewed by the Australian Associated Press.

Defence budget boost as New Zealand looks to 'step-up'.
By Ben McKay.

New Zealand will boost funding for both defence and foreign affairs in its upcoming budget, in a move likely to please its international partners.

Finance Minister Nicola Willis will come good on campaign pledges to shrink the public service and right-size the government when she unveils the budget on May 30. With the government books in structural deficit, the country’s new government led by Chris Luxon has ordered agency chiefs to find savings of around seven per cent, with full cuts to be revealed on budget day.

The Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade, the Ministry of Defence and the Defence Forces (NZDF) have not been exempt from the cost-saving exercise, but Ms Willis told AAP the grouping would see an budget boost on top of any efficiency dividend.

"We have a view that New Zealand’s presence on the world stage is incredibly important and also that we are living in a less benign geostrategic environment" she said. "There are real challenges to global peace and security and it’s going to be appropriate that we step up our defence capability".

Without giving firm details across agencies, Ms Willis said both capital and operational spending would be increased. Further boosts in future budgets also appear to be assured, particularly for defence. Defence Minister Judith Collins is currently preparing New Zealand’s latest Defence Capability Plan, which will spell out defence force needs through to 2040.

Given the NZDF’s high attrition - which has seen almost half its navy fleet grounded - as well as ageing equipment and infrastructure issues, the need to invest is well understood.

"Until we’ve got that (Capability Plan) we don’t want to be making the big investments, but even so there are some obvious investments that we’re making this budget" Ms Willis said.

The previous year’s total foreign affairs budget was $NZ2.2 billion ($A2 billion), with defence spending just under $NZ5.3 billion ($A4.8 billion). Ms Willis, of the centre-right National party that is the biggest coalition member, will have pleased junior parties ACT and NZ First with the move. Both ACT and NZ First campaigned on lifting defence spending to two per cent of GDP. It is currently a little more than one per cent.

Ms Willis has committed to a lift, though she isn’t sold on a particular benchmark. "We shouldn’t just blindly go for a percentage. What’s most important is that we invest in the right capability" she said, arguing for interoperability with partners. "They want to see that we can work well with their forces, that we’re complimentary to what they’re doing and what they have" she said. "The most important contribution we can make is to think carefully through what those requirements are".

That’s likely to be music to the ears of Australia, given Canberra’s eagerness to partner with Wellington on challenges in the region. The interoperability goal follows a pledge earlier in 2024 by Ms Collins, who told AAP it’s really important that New Zealand not be a freeloader on regional defence. In a major foreign policy address on Wednesday, Foreign Minister Winston Peters said New Zealand’s long history of parsimony needed to end if we wish to continue garnering respect, citing a more dangerous world.

Ms Willis agrees, recalling her dining company at a gathering of finance ministers on a recent trip to Washington DC. "On one side, I had the Ukrainian finance minister who is in an existential battle for the future of his country she said. On the other side, the Polish finance minister who was looking at spending four per cent of GDP on defence because he views the security of his nation as being potentially imperilled. The United States, Australia, the United Kingdom, Canada, our intelligence partners, are all concerned about where conflict will go in our world over the next few years and its implications for trade, implications for security and peace. It’s very sobering and I’m very conscious of it".

Finance Minister also interviewed by Newstalk ZB today.

ZB: How much are you going to boost funding for defence in the budget. Is it quite substantial?

Willis: It'll be a modest uplift in this budget, and that's because we are still completing the Defence Capability Review, which is a very important step in terms of working out what are the big bits of kit, what are the big capabilities, we need to be good partners to those countries that we have defence relationship with, what capability do they want us to have, and then, once we've got that clear and we've got a view out to 2040.

Then let's systematically make those big investments. But for this budget there are some obvious investments, we need to make to uplift the Defence Force, but they will be modest.

ZB: As the Finance Minister. Is it your goal to lift it to a standard where our ally who is never happy with how much we're spending will be happy with how much we're spending in the long term or the medium term.

Willis: My goal is that New Zealand is a good partner to those countries we depend on for peace and security. but also that when one of our pacific nation friends need us, that we can be there, so that if there's a cyclone or something terrible happens, we're able to be there with the right equipment to be supportive.

And that also, we're providing capability that helps the countries we're working with. And you know, we have some areas of expertise. Be that space be that monitoring our part of the ocean. And so we need to make sure we've got the modern equipment and skills to do those jobs.

So in summary small steps forward at this point in time when the Budget is released at the end of the month.

Future investments and real improvements to be articulated by the Defence Capability Review when it is released in June.

The extent of which will be dependent on future defence expenditure settings ...