Power from space?

[FutureTank]

A recent news item from http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21253268/_

I'd like to find out if anyone knows where the National Security Space Office report mentioned in the article can be obtained from.

First couple of sentences

"A new Pentagon study lays out the roadmap for a multibillion-dollar push to the final frontier of energy: a satellite system that collects gigawatts’ worth of solar power and beams it down to Earth.
The military itself could become the “anchor tenant” for such a power source, due to the current high cost of fueling combat operations abroad, the study says.
The 75-page report, released Wednesday, says new economic incentives would have to be put in place to “close the business case” for space-based solar power systems — but it suggests that the technology could be tested in orbit by as early as 2012."

 

[Ozzy Blizzard]

A recent news item from http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21253268/_

I'd like to find out if anyone knows where the National Security Space Office report mentioned in the article can be obtained from.

First couple of sentences

"A new Pentagon study lays out the roadmap for a multibillion-dollar push to the final frontier of energy: a satellite system that collects gigawatts’ worth of solar power and beams it down to Earth.
The military itself could become the “anchor tenant” for such a power source, due to the current high cost of fueling combat operations abroad, the study says.
The 75-page report, released Wednesday, says new economic incentives would have to be put in place to “close the business case” for space-based solar power systems — but it suggests that the technology could be tested in orbit by as early as 2012."

interesting report.

Apart from the obvious benifits for the planets energy needs and climate change, which will end up affecting the military as much as everyone else, the effect this system would have on logistics is well worth the effort. No more PLUTO (Pipe Line Under The Ocean) like logistical structures!

Anyways its promising that the military is driving this. Look what it did for the internet, now it runs the world. Hopefully with the US military as an anchor customer it might just get this stuff off the ground.

 

[FutureTank]

That was just the article. I can't find the report.
Yes, I can see lots of potential applications, particularly for water and air based systems large enough to carry 1st generation collectors.

 

[radiosilence]

I'd like to find out if anyone knows where the National Security Space Office report mentioned in the article can be obtained from.

The report can be found here

This idea has been around close to 40 years and the technology is now catching up.

 

[FutureTank]

The report can be found here

This idea has been around close to 40 years and the technology is now catching up.

Thank you for the link. I had a search and nothing came up, but I was sure someone would know where to look.

Yes, I read about it in a sci-fi novel when I was in school ;-) It was promised for the 1980s ;-)

 

[Firehorse]

Реализации проекта препятствует высокая стоимость доставки полезных грузов на орбиту. Спутник такого назначения, равный по мощности современной электростанции, будет весить около трех тысяч тонн – в десять раз больше, чем вся МКС. Для транспортировки потребуются сотни ракетных стартов. Сегодня США запускают около 15 ракет в год.
http://www.pravda.ru/science/technolgies/241750-1/

Auto translation:

Realization of the project is prevented with high cost of delivery of payloads into an orbit. The satellite of such purpose equal on capacity of modern power station, will weigh about three thousand tons – ten times more, than all ISS. For transportation hundreds rocket starts be required. Today the USA start about 15 rockets in a year.

Don't hold your breath-until they figure out the more economical way to assemble it in orbit!

 

[radiosilence]

If the SBSP idea is sucessful, some military benefits are dramatically reduce the energy logistics train to forward operating bases and reduce the need to secure massive energy convoys and stores in Combat zones, Nation building efforts and Disaster relief efforts.

 

[FutureTank]

Auto translation:


Don't hold your breath-until they figure out the more economical way to assemble it in orbit!

Much of the materials can come from the actual delivery systems by not disposing of them after the payload reaches orbit. I haven't read the report yet, but the USA alone has sufficient missiles that can be used for orbital delivery by using decommissioned/ing strategic units..

 

[Chrom]

Much of the materials can come from the actual delivery systems by not disposing of them after the payload reaches orbit. I haven't read the report yet, but the USA alone has sufficient missiles that can be used for orbital delivery by using decommissioned/ing strategic units..

And then small missile will leave your entire army powerless.... great!

 

[FutureTank]

And then small missile will leave your entire army powerless.... great!

I'm not sure I understand what you mean Chrom. What I meant is that large older missiles can be used to deliver payloads to orbit. Many are decommissioned or will be decommissioned, and therefore surplus to requirements. Only USA and Russia are in this position. In fact if the two cooperated, they could put the satelite network in place much faster.

 

[eckherl]

I'm not sure I understand what you mean Chrom. What I meant is that large older missiles can be used to deliver payloads to orbit. Many are decommissioned or will be decommissioned, and therefore surplus to requirements. Only USA and Russia are in this position. In fact if the two cooperated, they could put the satelite network in place much faster.

He most likely did not realize that you are not American

 

[FutureTank]

He most likely did not realize that you are not American

What part of this project is negative to warrant being anti-American?
In all prospects this is likely to be a partly commercialised project since the US DoD can not use the satellite network around the globe all the time, so others would benefit.
Reduction in demand for fossil fuels would also reduce the cost of fuel to ordinary people around the World, increasing individual's prosperity and therefore quality of life, never mind the benefits for the environment.

 

[eckherl]

What part of this project is negative to warrant being anti-American?
In all prospects this is likely to be a partly commercialised project since the US DoD can not use the satellite network around the globe all the time, so others would benefit.
Reduction in demand for fossil fuels would also reduce the cost of fuel to ordinary people around the World, increasing individual's prosperity and therefore quality of life, never mind the benefits for the environment.

He threw the dig in there because of the use of American missiles comment that you made so in part I was referring to Chroms remark. Other than that it would be a good project if we could get the Russians involved or maybe the U.S could do it on their own. With the economic growth of China and India natural resources like oil and natural gas will be scarce in future times.

 

[Chrom]

He threw the dig in there because of the use of American missiles comment that you made so in part I was referring to Chroms remark. Other than that it would be a good project if we could get the Russians involved or maybe the U.S could do it on their own. With the economic growth of China and India natural resources like oil and natural gas will be scarce in future times.

I have absolutely nothing against USA or Russia using they old missiles to deliver payload to space. In fact, Russia do it, and funny part, in cooperation with USA.


My (sarcastic) comment was refered to your "power from space". One single shot by 1 small missle, laser, or whatever - and entire army depended from this "power from space" is powerless. It is already very bad with GPS, but this proposed thing will have 1000 times worse effect.

In short, i dont see much gain for military here.

In civilian use there is however 1 feasible project i know of - space mirrors. These (relatively) cheap things can direct sun light to ground electrical solar panels and increase they power output tenfold, also providng sun light at night. This project is actively being developed right now.

 

[Ozzy Blizzard]

And then small missile will leave your entire army powerless.... great!

How many missile can reach geo stationary orbit??????? Not many i would think!

Pluss these instalations are huge, the small damage from a single missile or laser would only degrade the system, and i doubt significantly. You would need to hit it with massive ammounts of firepower, and when its 30 000 miles above you thats not easy.

Anyway its a complementry system, used in conjunction with other energy sources.

 

[Chrom]

How many missile can reach geo stationary orbit??????? Not many i would think!

Pluss these instalations are huge, the small damage from a single missile or laser would only degrade the system, and i doubt significantly. You would need to hit it with massive ammounts of firepower, and when its 30 000 miles above you thats not easy.

Anyway its a complementry system, used in conjunction with other energy sources.

If you ever dealt with space constructions - you know HOW fragile they are. They can be destroyed litteraly by single bullet. Weight saving, you know... And geo orbit is much too far for any usefull energy transfer.
The project itself is about as real as plasma guns and laser rifles. While we can theoreticaly build laser rifle right now, but it will have huge cost, require own power plant, and weight 400kg. On top of that will not work in bad weather.
In other words - unless major science breakthrougt - not gonna happen.

 

[FutureTank]

If you ever dealt with space constructions - you know HOW fragile they are. They can be destroyed literally by single bullet. Weight saving, you know... And geo orbit is much too far for any useful energy transfer.
The project itself is about as real as plasma guns and laser rifles. While we can theoretically build laser rifle right now, but it will have huge cost, require own power plant, and weight 400kg. On top of that will not work in bad weather.
In other words - unless major science breakthrough - not gonna happen.

Ok, I misunderstood what you said.
Firstly these installations are going to be huge. Given their size, they will be able to house a countermeasures suit and probably include anti-missile defences to cope with possible terrorist threats.

The collectors have to be in geo orbit to be effective, the issue is with the surface reception.

If the laser rifle could be built now, and only required a 400kg powerplant, even if it only worked in good weather there would be lots of them mounted on various existing chassis.
The reason there aren't any is because the powersource would weigh about 400 ton and not kgs.

 

[Chrom]

Ok, I misunderstood what you said.
Firstly these installations are going to be huge. Given their size, they will be able to house a countermeasures suit and probably include anti-missile defences to cope with possible terrorist threats.

The collectors have to be in geo orbit to be effective, the issue is with the surface reception.

If the laser rifle could be built now, and only required a 400kg powerplant, even if it only worked in good weather there would be lots of them mounted on various existing chassis.
The reason there aren't any is because the powersource would weigh about 400 ton and not kgs.

I said laser RIFLE, and NOT laser cannon as you suggested. Understood it? We cant build laser cannon yet even if we try. And laser rifle with the weight and cost of laser cannon is not very usefull. We CAN build it. But name me where it can be used.... And its advantage compared to similar size and cost normal weapon...

As for Star Fortress (and your propose IS Star Fortress) - well, we are struggling to build very small ISS. And you want something much bigger, and much more expencive... Economic nonsence.

P.S. In fact, Israel already advertise anti-missile laser SAM. In fact, it is nothing more than laser rifle married with radar control. Reportedly, they already even tested it against some MLRS rockets.
We can also remember THEL, what is first step to true laser cannon.

 

[kato]

As for Star Fortress (and your propose IS Star Fortress) - well, we are struggling to build very small ISS.

Actually, we aren't. The last components that were planned to be added are rotting in NASA halls though and will never be added. Columbus for example has been stowed around for like the last 3-4 years. Due to NASA being too afraid to launch another Shuttle, and certain loads for ISS specifically designed for Shuttle launch (in both size and weight).

 

[Chrom]

Actually, we aren't. The last components that were planned to be added are rotting in NASA halls though and will never be added. Columbus for example has been stowed around for like the last 3-4 years. Due to NASA being too afraid to launch another Shuttle, and certain loads for ISS specifically designed for Shuttle launch (in both size and weight).

Is there a reason for NASA to be afraid? Or NASA is just angsty?
See, it is not that simply even with small ISS...