Go Back   DefenceTalk Forum - Military & Defense Forums > Global Defense & Military > Space & Defense Technology

Defense News
Land, Air & Naval Forces






Military Photos
Latest Military Pictures
Defense Reports
Aerospace & Defence


"Nudol" Russia's new ASAT

This is a discussion on "Nudol" Russia's new ASAT within the Space & Defense Technology forum, part of the Global Defense & Military category; Not many know that in addition to the S-500, Russia is working on what appears to be a dedicated ASAT. ...


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread
Old December 4th, 2015   #1
Super Moderator
General
Feanor's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Under your bed. No seriously, take a look.
Posts: 14,976
Threads:
"Nudol" Russia's new ASAT

Not many know that in addition to the S-500, Russia is working on what appears to be a dedicated ASAT. A drawing of the proposed TEL for it was leaked to the press, in the form of a corporate calendar picture. And now there is information that it has been tested 3 times. Twice unsuccessfully, and once, most recently on Nov 18th, successfully. The info on the testing comes from the US.

Первое успешное испытание противоспутниковой ракеты системы "Нудоль" - bmpd

While information is lacking, and the S-500 was supposed to be able to reach targets in near orbit, there's a good chance that work in that direction has not proceeded well, and the Nudol is also a full fledged ASAT, not just something for the low hanging fruit.
Feanor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 4th, 2015   #2
Grumpy Old Man
General
gf0012-aust's Avatar
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Australia
Posts: 17,997
Threads:
the problem for the average reader is that they don't understand that any ASAT is about killing a Sat in a specific orbit range.

Its not about an ability to kill "all" satellites. eg it will be about killing LEO sats etc....

the result is that if people don't comprehend the differences you end up with "youtube quality" commentary.
________________
A corollary of Finagle's Law, similar to Occam's Razor, says:

"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity"
http://au.linkedin.com/pub/gary-fairlie/1/28a/2a2
http://cofda.wordpress.com/

gf a.k.a. ROBOPIMP T5C
gf0012-aust is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 4th, 2015   #3
Super Moderator
General
Feanor's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Under your bed. No seriously, take a look.
Posts: 14,976
Threads:
Quote:
Originally Posted by gf0012-aust View Post
the problem for the average reader is that they don't understand that any ASAT is about killing a Sat in a specific orbit range.

Its not about an ability to kill "all" satellites. eg it will be about killing LEO sats etc....

the result is that if people don't comprehend the differences you end up with "youtube quality" commentary.
It's my understanding, though I may be wrong, that Nudol is not a missile. It's a system that includes a family of missiles with varying characteristics. Whereas the S-500 is supposed to have only some limited ASAT potential (it's not even described as ASAT, it's described as being able to reach low-orbit, presumably in anticipation of military aircraft that operate at or near those altitudes), Nudol is dedicated to the ASAT mission. It's still not clear how they intend to link the launch units with target detection and tracking, though the stuff they've been doing with the Krona complex suggests a direction for further exploration.

It's also important to note that currently the VVS, PVO, and Space Troops are all under a single structure, the air-space command (VKS in Russian). This was only done recently and provides another hint as to what exactly the Nudol may be aiming at.

Finally there may be some intent to include an airborne component in this ASAT, likely based on either existing MiG-31s or the successor interceptor currently being worked on.

Thus individual components of the system will deal with different kinds of orbital targets.
Feanor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 4th, 2015   #4
Grumpy Old Man
General
gf0012-aust's Avatar
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Australia
Posts: 17,997
Threads:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feanor View Post
It's my understanding, though I may be wrong, that Nudol is not a missile. It's a system that includes a family of missiles with varying characteristics. Whereas the S-500 is supposed to have only some limited ASAT potential (it's not even described as ASAT, it's described as being able to reach low-orbit, presumably in anticipation of military aircraft that operate at or near those altitudes), Nudol is dedicated to the ASAT mission. It's still not clear how they intend to link the launch units with target detection and tracking, though the stuff they've been doing with the Krona complex suggests a direction for further exploration.

It's also important to note that currently the VVS, PVO, and Space Troops are all under a single structure, the air-space command (VKS in Russian). This was only done recently and provides another hint as to what exactly the Nudol may be aiming at.

Finally there may be some intent to include an airborne component in this ASAT, likely based on either existing MiG-31s or the successor interceptor currently being worked on.

Thus individual components of the system will deal with different kinds of orbital targets.
so fundamentally the S500 is the launch vehicle?
________________
A corollary of Finagle's Law, similar to Occam's Razor, says:

"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity"
http://au.linkedin.com/pub/gary-fairlie/1/28a/2a2
http://cofda.wordpress.com/

gf a.k.a. ROBOPIMP T5C
gf0012-aust is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 4th, 2015   #5
Super Moderator
General
Feanor's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Under your bed. No seriously, take a look.
Posts: 14,976
Threads:
Quote:
Originally Posted by gf0012-aust View Post
so fundamentally the S500 is the launch vehicle?
No. Just what I'm trying to say. This is completely separate from the S-500. The S-500 will only deal with near orbit. The Nudol is a family of missiles with new unique TELs and C4I, that deal, in theory, with higher orbit targets, and the third component, the further off from the looks of it, is an air-launched missile with a MiG-31 or MiG-41 carrier.

The S-500 will be predominantly aimed at aircraft. The ASAT, at least from everything they've said so far, is a secondary (perhaps simply second, rather then secondary) capability for that system.
Feanor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 4th, 2015   #6
Super Moderator
General
Feanor's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Under your bed. No seriously, take a look.
Posts: 14,976
Threads:
Quote:
Originally Posted by gf0012-aust View Post
so fundamentally the S500 is the launch vehicle?
Just as clarification, it's more likely that Nudol is linked to the A-235 BMD, then to the S-500. In fact there are some who think that the Nudol will be part of the A-235, meaning the BMD will have anti-space capabilities built in. In fact it may be, if this turns out to be true, no longer accurate to classify the A-235 as BMD, but rather a space-defense system? However for the time being I'm proceeding on the assumption that the Nudol and the A-235 are separate, if related, projects.

It's important to note OKR Nudol and the OKR for the A-235 are different projects. That one is called OKR Samolyot-M.
Feanor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 7th, 2015   #7
Defense Professional / Analyst
Lieutenant General
kato's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Germany
Posts: 2,969
Threads:
The last Russian launch on Dec 5th included KYuA-1 (Kosmos 2512) as a passenger for LEO, a 15-kg radar calibration sphere to be used specifically by Almaz-Antey - i.e. a target for ground radars. Unlike the main payload, KYuA-1 deployed succesfully. A second unit will launch sometime next year. Just noting it in this context.
kato is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 2nd, 2016   #8
Super Moderator
General
Feanor's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Under your bed. No seriously, take a look.
Posts: 14,976
Threads:
Nudol just had a second test-launch from Plestsk. A total of 4 tests have been done, 2 successful including this one.

Новое испытание ракеты комплекса "Нудоль" - bmpd
Successful Nudol test reported - Blog - Russian strategic nuclear forces
Feanor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 21st, 2016   #9
Super Moderator
General
Feanor's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Under your bed. No seriously, take a look.
Posts: 14,976
Threads:
And another successful test reported. Maybe someone with more knowledge in the area can comment on whether this many tests without an actual intercept are normal. I also can't help but wonder how the recent adjustments in spending plans have affected this development.

ВМФ *оссии переданы отремонтированные вертолеты Ка-29 - bmpd
Successful Nudol ASAT test reported - Blog - Russian strategic nuclear forces
Feanor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 25th, 2016   #10
New Member
Private
No Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 34
Threads:
They would be unlikely to do an actual intercept as that will result in too much additional space junk. The situation is that orbital debris is already thought to be close to a cascade starting, if it hasn't already.

One must wonder though, how will network centric warfare cope when at least the lower orbits become inhospitable for satellite operation.
foxdemon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 21st, 2017   #11
Just Hatched
Private
No Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Vietnam
Posts: 6
Threads:
Quote:
Originally Posted by gf0012-aust View Post
so fundamentally the S500 is the launch vehicle?
the problem for the average reader is that they don't understand that any ASAT is about killing a Sat in a specific orbit range.

Its not about an ability to kill "all" satellites. eg it will be about killing LEO sats etc....

the result is that if people don't comprehend the differences you end up with "youtube quality" commentary.
humphuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 21st, 2017   #12
Grumpy Old Man
General
gf0012-aust's Avatar
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Australia
Posts: 17,997
Threads:
Quote:
Originally Posted by humphuy View Post
the problem for the average reader is that they don't understand that any ASAT is about killing a Sat in a specific orbit range.

Its not about an ability to kill "all" satellites. eg it will be about killing LEO sats etc....

the result is that if people don't comprehend the differences you end up with "youtube quality" commentary.
I think you need to do some further reading and start understanding where some of us work or probably have worked ....
________________
A corollary of Finagle's Law, similar to Occam's Razor, says:

"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity"
http://au.linkedin.com/pub/gary-fairlie/1/28a/2a2
http://cofda.wordpress.com/

gf a.k.a. ROBOPIMP T5C
gf0012-aust is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:20 AM.