Is the Moon to be Crowded??

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redsoulja

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well US, ESA, China, India and Russia all have plans for the moon within the first quarter of the new century....

http://washingtontimes.com/upi-breaking/20041122-055051-7514r.htm

Russia may have moon base by 2025

Moscow, Russia, Nov. 22 (UPI) -- Russia may have a base on the moon by 2025, according to a Russian space official, the Interfax news agency reported Monday.

Nikolai Moiseyev, deputy chief of the Russian Space Agency for the International Space Station, made the prediction at a NASA conference in Washington, D.C.

"Moiseyev told the conference that the task may be put forward in 2020-2025 to set up an automatic lunar base. Closer to the middle of the century, such a base may also appear on Mars," the agency's press service told Interfax Monday.

Moiseyev informed space officials from other countries about Russia's International Space Station program, which includes advanced studies aimed at the exploration of the solar system and the use of automated spacecraft.

In particular, he mentioned the Luna-Globe project for studying the internal structure of the moon, delivering samples of moon rock to earth, and the use of moon resources.

India may plan more missions after Chandrayaan???

http://www.spacedaily.com/2004/041123160057.ig5cydtm.html

India to launch more lunar missions before 2015: space agency
UDAIPUR, India (AFP) Nov 23, 2004
India will launch more missions to the moon if its maiden unmanned spacecraft Chandrayaan-1, slated to be launched by 2008, is successful in mapping the lunar surface, a top space official said Tuesday.

"If there are good prospects for minerals then we will go for one or more robotic missions," said Madhavan Nair, chairman of the Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO), the country's premier space agency.

"It depends on the success of the first mission," said Nair, who was in the northern city of Udaipur to attend a five-day global conference on "Exploration and Utilization of the Moon."

Nair said the two planned missions would be launched before 2015.

India's 590 kilogram (1,298 pound) Chandrayaan-1, which will map the lunar terrain for minerals and conduct scientific experiments, will also carry an "impacter" module, Nair said.

The "impacter" weighing 20 kilograms will descend from the lunar orbit and touch the moon's surface to examine the surface more closely, he said.

"At the impact it will kick up some dust which our master control room will pick up through the mounted cameras and analyse. It is an one-shot affair," Nair explained.

The European Space Agency and National Aeronautics and Space Administration's X-ray and laser equipment will ride piggyback on India's Chandrayaan-1.

The ISRO chief called on the international community to draw a roadmap for future space programmes.

"International cooperation and collaboration is needed rather than competition, which exists today, to share space on an equitable basis. All the five nations should join hands to minimise costs," Nair said.

The United States, the European Space Agency, China, Japan and India are all planning lunar missions during the next decade.

The conference being attended by more than 200 delegates from 16 countries will draft a declaration on Friday underlining future cooperation in space programmes.
 

redsoulja

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http://www.kentucky.com/mld/kentucky/news/science/10210587.htm


Posted on Thu, Nov. 18, 2004
Click here to find out more!

Foreign moon missions

• Smart-1, a project of the European Space Agency, was launched in September 2003. It's taking 14 months to reach the moon -- the U.S. Apollo missions took four days -- because it's using an experimental propulsion system, called an ion drive, that starts off very slowly and gradually accelerates to a high speed. It requires little fuel, and is being tested for use in extremely long missions in outer space.

Smart-1 is a square box, measuring about 3 feet on a side and weighing 800 pounds. Inside are three toaster-size instruments to study the chemical makeup of the moon in X-rays, infrared light and ordinary light.

• Japan plans two lunar visitors, but has had trouble getting them off the ground. The first, a 1,200-pound orbiter called Lunar-A, originally was scheduled to take off in 1999, but has been delayed repeatedly by problems with the launch rocket. It's now expected to go up sometime next year.

After settling into a 1,200-mile-high orbit, the spaceship will fire two missile-like penetrators that will drill 1 or 2 yards into the lunar surface, one on the side facing Earth, one on the other side. The penetrators will relay data on possible moonquakes and the nature of the moon's core.

In 2006, Japan hopes to launch a more ambitious, 4,400-pound package of three satellites called Selene, the Greek name for the moon. The main orbiter will carry 13 scientific instruments to study the origin and evolution of the moon. It'll spin off two smaller satellites, one to relay signals from behind the moon and the other to measure the moon's wobble as it circles the Earth.

• The Indian Space Research Organization plans to launch Chandrayaan-1, Hindi for "moon voyage," in September 2007. The 1,200-pound orbiter is to circle the moon, 60 miles above the surface, for at least two years.

• China, which launched its first man into Earth orbit in October 2003, plans to send up a lunar orbiter in 2007. It's named Chang-e, after a Chinese story about a fairy that flew to the moon.

The Chinese space agency announced last summer that it'll attempt a robotic soft landing on the moon in 2010 and a manned landing by 2020. The European Project Aurora has a goal of a manned landing on Mars by 2033, about the time the United States might be doing the same.

wow Japans in the fold, will the H-2 be capable??
and Europe wants to go to Mars??? by2033????? :cop
thats sounds unrealistic
 

redsoulja

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wow so many interesting reads
will find about about the European Aurora project for Mars

http://planetary.org/news/2004/nasa-internatl-workshop_1122.html

NASA Concludes First International Workshop
in Support of U.S. 'Vision'

by A.J.S. Rayl

22 November 2004

NASA officials held an international workshop last week in Washington D.C., with representatives from China, the European Union, and 17 other countries to consider opportunities and possible collaborations in forthcoming missions that are a part of the U.S. Vision for Space Exploration.

Future Moon Base? NASA has considered many concepts for Moon habitats. This art concept shows a 16-meter diameter inflatable habitat that could accommodate the needs of a dozen astronauts living and working on the surface of the Moon. Depicted are astronauts exercising, a base operations center, a pressurized lunar rover, a small clean room, a fully equipped life sciences lab, a lunar lander, selenological work, hydroponic gardens, a wardroom, private crew quarters, dust-removing devices for lunar surface work and an airlock.
Image: NASA

The space agency convened the workshop to provide a forum for an "exchange of information" and "to find those agencies and countries that have the capability, the interest and the resources to participate in various projects of U.S. space exploration," Rear Admiral Craig Steidle, USN Ret., Associate Administrator for the Office of Exploration Systems, told a telephonic assemblage of reporters last Thursday.

The three-day gathering -- which also drew participation from 19 international organizations -- is the first of a series of NASA-sponsored workshops "to see where the areas of collaborations exist." President George W. Bush announced the 'Vision' in January as he charged NASA with charting a journey that will take humans back to the Moon, and eventually to Mars and beyond. The plan calls for a "building block" strategy of human and robotic missions to achieve new exploration goals. The first objective is to return the space shuttle safely to flight and complete construction of the International Space Station (ISS). Following that, the space shuttle will be retired.

The next phase calls for robotic missions to begin visiting the Moon in 2008, with an extended human expedition to follow as early as 2015. These lunar missions are to lay the groundwork for future human exploration of Mars. To support these journeys, the government has already approved the development of a new manned spacecraft -- the Crew Exploration Vehicle (CRV). This new ship will be the first spacecraft to explore beyond Earth since the Apollo days and is to be capable of ferrying astronauts to and from the ISS once the shuttle is retired. Plans currently call for demonstration and testing the CRV by the end of this decade.

The first day of the NASA workshop was devoted to "briefing one another on our plans to explore space," informed Michael F. O'Brien, Assistant Administrator for External Relations. Basically, representatives from the Canadian Space Agency, the Chinese National Space Agency, the European Space Agency, the French National Space Agency, the German Aerospace Center, the Indian Space Research Organization, the Italian Space Agency, the Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency, and the Russian Federal Space Agency, as well as NASA, presented roadmaps and strategies for future space explorations.

Rear Admiral Craig Steidle, USN Ret., Associate Administrator for the Office of Exploration Systems, NASA HDQ
Image: NASA

The participants then broke into five workshops which ran simultaneously throughout the second day: Human Exploration Strategies and Objectives; Robotic Exploration Objectives to Support Human Missions; Human Missions and Systems beyond Low Earth Orbit; Exploration Systems, Research and Technology Development Programs (everything from hardware to software to life sciences); and Approaches for International Cooperation.

From these exchanges and discussions, the accomplishments, capabilities, and strategies of the participating agencies and countries were pulled together by the NASA representatives into a presentation of "Action Items," or "homework assignments," as O'Brien put it. These assignments are "not to participate in any particular project," but to continue "to exchange information" at a variety of international gatherings next year, he explained.

"The action items are to compare roadmaps to see what fits into what -- not to produce subcontractors but partners, and to see where there are areas where we can collaborate for risk reductions to their programs as well as ours," said Steidle The Human Exploration Strategies and Objectives Group, for example, will develop and populate "a core competency matrix" to share with everyone at the next international gathering of space scientists in January. "By March, they'll have an initial evaluation of all the areas of synergism and then put together the final development of all these roadmaps by August," he offered.

No surprise missions or projects emerged in the presentations, but both Steidle and O'Brien were struck by the openness they saw in virtually all of the participants. "I thought we would have a difficult time in pulling out the sharing of information and roadmaps," said Steidle. "We did not have that. It was an open atmosphere and everyone was very aggressively sharing their particular roadmaps and plans and programs -- and the problems they have with some of them."

The detail of the presentations was "very gratifying," added O'Brien. "Each of the agencies [representatives who] came obviously put a lot of work and thought into laying out their [roadmaps] -- not only with their ongoing programs, but what their aspirations for exploration for the future were. It was first time I was able to sit at one place in one day and get all that information in one 8-hour period."

Mars lander? This artist's concept shows astronauts using an unpressurized rover to unload cargo and supplies needed for their stay on the Red Planet.
Image: NASA/ John Frassanito & Associates

A number of obvious duplications, however, did emerge during the forum, said Steidle and "a desire to explore [those duplicated efforts] to see where it makes sense [to cooperate] economically for each one of us. We saw a lot of robotic missions with the same objectives and the same timeline, We saw a lot of interest in sample return. We saw a lot of interest in Mars [with missions scheduled] along the same timeframe, so those are the areas that we focused on as areas of possible collaboration." ESA's planned Aurora program to Mars, for example, was compared "in detail" with NASA's Mars objectives to see "where the milestones are, where the problems are, and where the plans are, both funding wise and political wise and technically," said Steidle.

"This [Vision] is a journey, not a specific event," Steidle continued. "We've got a lot of systems to develop. So it's a great opportunity to have partners, not subcontractors. And by that, I mean there are several missions that can be done and handled by others that can help lower the risk that's for sure, but I think the return on the investment is going to be well worth it. Resources are always an issue. I don't recall anybody coming in and saying, 'We just got an increase in our budget and so we can participate in your exploration Vision.' That being said, where we find efficiencies amongst and between the various exploration programs of the various countries -- it seems to me you could make the argument that part of the reason you work together is to be more efficient and not duplicate efforts, and get some savings in the process."

Interestingly, in a paper for presentation at the International Lunar Conference being held this week in India, The Planetary Society noted the similarity in lunar missions planned by India, Japan, China, Europe and, now the U.S., and in that paper called for cooperation and coordination among them to eliminate duplication and create new opportunities, such as the creation of an International Lunar Way Station.

As optimistic as Steidle and O'Brien were about last week's workshop, given the Bush Administration's previous attitudes about international cooperation in other matters, including the war in Iraq, some reporters questioned how genuine this kind of desire for cooperation could be. "The signal from reasonably high in the U.S. government that we are following is that of the President of the United States who told us to embark on and pursue international cooperation in implementation of the Vision," O'Brien stated. "Right now we're at a fairly high level of general discussions and we haven't agreed to conduct any particular international cooperation on a particular project."

Michael F. O'Brien,
Assistant Administrator for External Relations, NASA HDQ
Image: NASA

The inclusion of China drew questions about whether the U.S. would ever really collaborate on a space exploration project with a Communist country. "It is somewhat precedent setting for this particular meeting to have the Chinese there in attendance," O'Brien admitted. "We were very careful in having discussions and consultations within the U.S. Government -- specifically the State Department. Given that this was nothing more than an exchange of information and views, the view of our State Department colleagues was that this would be acceptable. Therefore, we thought that given the other big change that has occurred -- which is the announcement of the Vision for exploration in the future and the direction of the President to pursue international cooperation -- that it would make sense to try and be inconclusive at least in the initial stages of this exchange of information and views and so that's how we proceeded."

And what if China were to step up to the plate and suggest a partnership with NASA on a specific upcoming mission? "I'll do the appropriate thing and defer to the State Dept for the government to government issues that sometimes separate the two of us," Steidle responded. "We are a technical agency that implements the foreign policy of the United States, we do not make it." "China does raise some issues, that's for sure," added O'Brien. "This was just an initial meeting to exchange ideas and thoughts about our own exploration plans and to look to see where they might intersect and where we might consider future cooperation. There are barriers and challenges that we need to overcome . . . but we feel that we have -- with men and women of good will around the world working toward these common objectives and the betterment of humankind -- that we will be able to overcome these particular barriers that exist not only in U.S., but in other countries as they look at following their own political processes as they try to cooperate on these complex projects. There was lots of discussion about guidelines we might use for international cooperation, as well as about the challenges that lay ahead to bringing these types of very complex activities to fruition," offered O'Brien.

In fact, O'Brien added, there was even discussion of the formation of a space federation. "We did discuss that and we determined that needed to further review," he said, chuckling at the inevitable comparison any space enthusiast would make to Star Trek's Federation. "If we decide to agree on some multi-national, multi-lateral group, we want to make sure we get it right and we bound it correctly." The Vision, meanwhile, is gaining momentum. "We have 11 major large contracts for us that go from Scaled Composites [the Mojave, CA company that built SpaceShipOne and took the $10 million Ansari X-Prize] up to Boeing and Lockheed. We have these 70 contracts with 200 subcontractors," Steidle pointed out. "It's a big effort. We have had tremendous support from the Administrator, Office of Management and Budget (OMB), and the White House in going forward with the program. We have had tremendous turnout from the centers participating in this and from industry. There's a lot of good support for this."

In addition to Administration support, the U.S. Congress passed the NASA budget this past weekend, with full funding and support for the new Vision. Although many of the workshop participants will meet again at upcoming international conferences on exploration and science and trade "homework" notes, they are basically all committed to attending the second workshop next August, said Steidle. "That's when we will we finish all of the comparison of the roadmaps and determine collaborations of technology programs."

"The international workshop is an excellent beginning, and all of the space agencies should be commended for their participation," said Louis D. Friedman, Executive Director of The Planetary Society. "Exploration of other worlds is the best, if not only, rationale for human space flight -- international cooperation is necessary for both technical and popular support of this great venture."
 

srirangan

Banned Member
>> the EU is planning to go to Mars so early? They still haven't sent a man space yet!

They haven't doesn't mean they can't.
 

Aegis

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srirangan said:
>> the EU is planning to go to Mars so early? They still haven't sent a man space yet!

They haven't doesn't mean they can't.
But when u do things,u need to start with the basic first, and step by step approach!

U can't expect a baby to run before he learns how to walk! Right?
 

redsoulja

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the Eu possess the human and material resources, the technological base and can easily acquire the technical know-how about how to launch a man into space, most likley their future projetcs will be simultaneous in broad terms, for example they will try to land on the moon within 10 years of launching a man into space, and then go to mars at the same speed.dont underestimate the european's ability, although they havent been on the media's radar does not mean they are not capable.
 

tatra

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doggychow14 said:
the EU is planning to go to Mars so early? They still haven't sent a man space yet!
ESA has astronauts and they have been 'out there' using US and Russian space craft. Which IMHO is a cost-effective way of doing things. After all, why spent tons of money on reinventing the wheel.
 

Firehorse

Banned Member
Tuesday, November 27, 2007 East-Asia-Intel.com

Report: China targeting all 'enemy space vehicles' including GPS satellites

China’s anti-satellite and space warfare program includes plans to destroy or incapacitate 'every enemy space vehicle' that passes over China.

The annual report of the U.S.-China Economic and Security Review Commission, released last week, listed among Beijing's goals that of ensuring that Chinese space weapons are “conducted covertly so China can maintain a positive international image.” China has called for a ban on space weapons at the United Nations.
The report said that China also is developing civilian technology that can be applied to military space programs and is acquiring the “ability to destroy or temporarily incapacitate every enemy space vehicle when it is located above China,” the report said.
The Chinese also plan to attack U.S. global positioning system (GPS) satellites through various means, including anti-satellite weapons, high-energy weapons, high-energy weather monitoring rockets and ground attacks on earth-based stations.
One section of the report, based on public and classified briefings, concluded there was a need for more information about Chinese activities and intentions.

Research from nearly 100 Chinese sources identified 30 proposals and recommendations by Chinese military leaders “regarding the development of space and counter-space weapons and programs.”

The military is also developing stealth satellites and a space program that will “provide key support for Chinese combat forces.”

“Some of these proposals appear to have been implemented already, as evidenced by January’s kinetic anti-satellite test and earlier laser incidents involving American satellites,” the report said.
http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtri...hina_11_29.asp

Space is the ultimate "high ground"- taking this report into consideration, I won't be at all surprised if some day the Moon will be used by the militaries of spacefaring nations, if only to observe Earth & space around it, inernational agreements notwithstanding.
 

Lostfleet

New Member
I hope somehow they manage to keep space exploration without direct or indirect military purposes.

I rather see an empty space, or an empty Moon or Mars than all of them occupied by some military force that has some weapon on board able to shoot back at Earth. ( Can you imagine nuclear ICBM silos located at Moon) hmmm not ICBM but that would be probably IPBM - Inter Planetary Ballistic Missiles) Of course I am exagerating but these days and in the future we can expect anything sinister to happen from all sides.
 

Firehorse

Banned Member
Actually, the Moon was considered by the US for a 2nd strike basing- until Admiral Rickover proposed to use submarines. But, if Antarctica is to be taken as an example, sooner or later it will be carved up, and so will the Moon, should valuable resources are to be economicaly extracted from there.
 

Generalissimo

New Member
The development of space weapons is inevitable, we are already seeing it with the various ASAT tests. As the Great Powers extend their arms race to space and exhaust the possibilities there as they have on Earth, they will turn to the moon to get gain an advantage once again. All space will be militarized, its only a matter of time and technology.:(
 

Lostfleet

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and all we wanted was Hilton on the moon :)

how long will it take for an ICBM to reach earth target that is launched from the moon?
 

Cutaway

New Member
Does anyone think its possible there is oxygen in the core of the moon/mars?, If so they could send up a drilling rig and release it into the atmosphere so there could be air to brethe, like in the movie 'Total Recall':D .

But seriously, it could be possible as traces of water was found on the moon.
 

Lostfleet

New Member
There is no way of knowing sure till you build a permenant research base that can do extensive drilling and exploration.
 
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